What can the E-assist option bring for bicycle touring.
#76
Heretic
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 2,246
Bikes: Specialized Sirrus, Giant OCR3, Giant CRS3
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2827 Post(s)
Liked 561 Times
in
429 Posts
For definitions I use a dictionary:
A vehicle consisting of two wheels held in a frame one behind the other, propelled by pedals and steered with handlebars attached to the front wheel.
bicycle - definition of bicycle in English from the Oxford dictionary
bicycle - definition of bicycle in English from the Oxford dictionary
If people want to tour on Ebikes or go 'E-bike touring' then fine, I'll just keep on (bi)cycle touring.
#77
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,229
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18409 Post(s)
Liked 15,518 Times
in
7,324 Posts
#78
Senior Member
#79
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Left Coast, Canada
Posts: 5,126
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2236 Post(s)
Liked 1,314 Times
in
707 Posts
And why are you posting in this thread? You have nothing to contribute and are only here to insult members who want to discuss a subject. Like I said before, I hope the mods just lock out one or two bad apples who's only purpose seems to be to derail a valid discussion, rather than lock the thread.
#80
Senior Member
#81
Senior Member
A mechanical advantage (in the simple kinematics sense of "gearing") doesn't allow you to gain an increase in input with less output. I mean, it sort of does in the sense that your legs won't be operating inefficiently... but you still don't have any more power to work with than what your body is providing. If you gear down while keeping equal cadence, you will burn energy at a lower rate, but you will spend more time burning energy at that lower rate in order to get to a destination a given distance away.
A motor is providing power. It's pushing your bike. You're being moved by power beyond what your body is putting into the pedals. If you're providing 100W, and you engage an assist and drop your power so that you're providing 50W and the assist is providing 50W, you're burning energy at a lower rate, but you won't spend more time burning energy at that lower rate in order to get to a destination a given distance away; just as much power is being delivered to your wheel, so you aren't going any slower.
A motor is providing power. It's pushing your bike. You're being moved by power beyond what your body is putting into the pedals. If you're providing 100W, and you engage an assist and drop your power so that you're providing 50W and the assist is providing 50W, you're burning energy at a lower rate, but you won't spend more time burning energy at that lower rate in order to get to a destination a given distance away; just as much power is being delivered to your wheel, so you aren't going any slower.
What I AM TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO UNDERTAND is its not all or nothing, it's not all motor, it's is sometimes just me pedaling to get the range one need per day and the battery won't provide, or like you said 50/50 or 10/90, or 90/10 or 25/75, or 75/25...
Last edited by 350htrr; 07-12-16 at 10:32 AM. Reason: add stuff
#82
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,608
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10954 Post(s)
Liked 7,481 Times
in
4,184 Posts
Man, yet again this forum strikes entertainment gold!
I ride a bicycle. It has 2 wheels(bi) and the wheels and crank arm spin in a circle over and again(cycle). I can tour on it.
I dont care if someone rides on the following as its all touring to me-
- trike
- recumbent bicycle
- recumbet tricycle
- e-assist bicycle
- e-assist tricycle
- other things I am forgetting.
- I find it hilarious that the term 'motorcycle' is continually used when the subject of e-assist bikes is discussed. They are so clearly not motorcycles. The term motorcycle has become synonymous with the 2(or 3) wheeled engine vehicles made by Honda, Harley, etc. To use that term when discussing an e-assist bike is just funny due to how clearly biased it is meant to be.
- There is a clear difference between 'e-assist' and 'e-bike'. They may both use a motor, but one is used as a bailout power help and the other is used as a primary power source. Yet for some reason, they are continually used synonymous around here.
- I dont give a rip if someone tours on an e-assist, single speed, recumbent, or traditional 2diamond bike. I dont care if someone rides ultralight, heavy, bikepacks, carts 4panniers, or credit card tours.
Theres more than 1 way to skin a cat and theres more than 1 way to tour. All are legitimate.
Do you 'hub and spoke' tour by driving somewhere then riding all around doing day rides from there? Congrats, you toured.
Do you fly on a plane to a starting point and ride home? Congrats, you toured.
Do you leave your house and ride in a big loop? Congrats, you toured.
Do you ride an e-assist and camp every night? Congrats, you toured.
Do you ride a 2diamond frame and cross the country with a sag vehicle while taking in the sights and scenery of national parks and tourist traps along the way? Congrats, you toured.
Do you bring camping gear, a credit card for hotels, and an app to find homes to crash at? Congrats, you toured.
Definition of TOUR
make a tour of (an area).
"he decided to tour France"
synonyms: travel around, explore, discover, vacation in, visit
It shouldnt matter if you camp while touring, or if you stay in hotels. That qualifier doesnt exist in the definition. <----this is a comment in response to a post earlier in the thread.
This forum makes the time pass so quickly at work!
I ride a bicycle. It has 2 wheels(bi) and the wheels and crank arm spin in a circle over and again(cycle). I can tour on it.
I dont care if someone rides on the following as its all touring to me-
- trike
- recumbent bicycle
- recumbet tricycle
- e-assist bicycle
- e-assist tricycle
- other things I am forgetting.
- I find it hilarious that the term 'motorcycle' is continually used when the subject of e-assist bikes is discussed. They are so clearly not motorcycles. The term motorcycle has become synonymous with the 2(or 3) wheeled engine vehicles made by Honda, Harley, etc. To use that term when discussing an e-assist bike is just funny due to how clearly biased it is meant to be.
- There is a clear difference between 'e-assist' and 'e-bike'. They may both use a motor, but one is used as a bailout power help and the other is used as a primary power source. Yet for some reason, they are continually used synonymous around here.
- I dont give a rip if someone tours on an e-assist, single speed, recumbent, or traditional 2diamond bike. I dont care if someone rides ultralight, heavy, bikepacks, carts 4panniers, or credit card tours.
Theres more than 1 way to skin a cat and theres more than 1 way to tour. All are legitimate.
Do you 'hub and spoke' tour by driving somewhere then riding all around doing day rides from there? Congrats, you toured.
Do you fly on a plane to a starting point and ride home? Congrats, you toured.
Do you leave your house and ride in a big loop? Congrats, you toured.
Do you ride an e-assist and camp every night? Congrats, you toured.
Do you ride a 2diamond frame and cross the country with a sag vehicle while taking in the sights and scenery of national parks and tourist traps along the way? Congrats, you toured.
Do you bring camping gear, a credit card for hotels, and an app to find homes to crash at? Congrats, you toured.
Definition of TOUR
make a tour of (an area).
"he decided to tour France"
synonyms: travel around, explore, discover, vacation in, visit
It shouldnt matter if you camp while touring, or if you stay in hotels. That qualifier doesnt exist in the definition. <----this is a comment in response to a post earlier in the thread.
This forum makes the time pass so quickly at work!
#84
Heretic
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 2,246
Bikes: Specialized Sirrus, Giant OCR3, Giant CRS3
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2827 Post(s)
Liked 561 Times
in
429 Posts
If you travel around France in a chauffeur driven limo you also 'toured' so are congrats called for?
#85
Senior Member
Well said @mstateglfr I wish I was 1/2 as articulate...
#86
Senior Member
To me, the question is where do you draw the line between bike touring and non-bike touring. In my view, when you add a motor to a bike, it is no longer a bike and you are no longer bike touring. Just because there are two wheels and pedals, the line has been crossed into another activity. Hey, I could strap a bicycle to the back of my 60' long RV and call it bike touring, but is it really? Is that what we are talking about here? If so, then any activity that involves a bike could be considered bike touring, regardless of how the bike is propelled.
#87
Heretic
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 2,246
Bikes: Specialized Sirrus, Giant OCR3, Giant CRS3
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2827 Post(s)
Liked 561 Times
in
429 Posts
To me, the question is where do you draw the line between bike touring and non-bike touring. In my view, when you add a motor to a bike, it is no longer a bike and you are no longer bike touring. Just because there are two wheels and pedals, the line has been crossed into another activity.
#88
Senior Member
I agree that one cannot/should not just say that one did a bike tour if one did it on an E-Assist bike, one needs to say they did a tour on an E-Assist bicycle... It is very simple. But to be looked down upon in a touring forum by ridiculers, is... sad...
Last edited by 350htrr; 07-12-16 at 11:24 AM.
#89
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,229
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18409 Post(s)
Liked 15,518 Times
in
7,324 Posts
What's most entertaining is watching people go back and forth over the same old ground. This thread rival any good disk brake argument in the 41.
Seabiscuit has, in fact, risen.
I hear that Pokémon Go is a good time, but please don't start a thread about whether playing on an e-bike is cheating or not.
Seabiscuit has, in fact, risen.
I hear that Pokémon Go is a good time, but please don't start a thread about whether playing on an e-bike is cheating or not.
#90
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,608
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10954 Post(s)
Liked 7,481 Times
in
4,184 Posts
You didnt bike tour, but you toured. You car toured.
And before the comment immediately above this sentence is broken down and used to somehow disprove what I posted earlier, I dont care if someone car tours using a car, minivan, truck, or conversion van. That all can fall under the general term 'car tour'.
In similar fashion- supported touring, self contained touring, bikepacking, credit card touring, etc can all fall under the general term 'bike touring'. And in additional similar fashion- riding a diamond frame, recumbent, trike, etc can also all fall under the general term 'bike', even if a trike has 3 and not 2 wheels. It would be absurd to demand someone call it 'trike touring' as there isnt any benefit to further clarify.
#91
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,248
Bikes: This list got too long: several ‘bents, an urban utility e-bike, and a dahon D7 that my daughter has absconded with.
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 363 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times
in
48 Posts
A point that I consider to be in favor of e-bike, and why I prefer it over e-assist, is that e-bike makes it clear that I am talking about a bike e-assist is much more generic. As I use it, e-bike is in reference to an e-assist bicycle. As staed, neither has any special meaning, beyond that given by its use, and I happen to prefer the one. Yes, I do see how they can be used somewhat synonymously here.
I do feel that an e-assist bicycle, A.K.A. an e-bike, can make cycling more approachable to many. It can also allow people to share cycling. A few days ago I noticed a couple that I know from elsewhere. In the past he rode without his wife in the evenings because she was not able to ride at the pace he wanted his evening workout to be at.
Since then they got an assist motor for her bike and now she can ride with him. She is still pushing pretty hard; but she is with him. I realize that the Bike Forum consensus is that he should just ride without her; but Bike Forums is not the place I would look for good relationship advice.
Frankley, converting her bike to an e-bike made cycling together an activity that they can enjoy together. I consider that a win. Back to the thread topic, this (riding together) is something that an e-bike added to their cycling activity.
#92
Senior Member
Even in the USA there is a difference as to where E-Assist bikes (means no throttle) can be used, and where E-Bikes usually with a throttle can be used as I understand it. So legally there is a separation. In Europe most/all E-Bikes are E-Assist bikes, even when one says E-Bikes it's a given that there will be no throttle...
#95
Senior Member
#96
Senior Member
My next bike tour will be on the PCH from SF to SD. This is how I plan to ride. It's called an RV-assist bike.
#97
-
I may possibly be conducting future tours from an e-Tesla3-bike, which offers leg assisted pedaling, brain-eyes-arms assisted self-driving (so I can play Minecraft while I'm touring), air conditioning, sun protection, GPS navigation, handlebar mounted radio, mp3 player and cell phone, headlights and taillights for safe night touring, a rack-and-pannier-like innovation called a "trunk", and can be used for stealth camping at the local Walmart parking lot without the burden of carrying tent, sleeping bag and sleeping pad. I won't be carrying cook gear, as the Walmart has an economical fully equipped kitchen area called "McDonalds".
#98
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,229
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18409 Post(s)
Liked 15,518 Times
in
7,324 Posts
I may possibly be conducting future tours from an e-Tesla3-bike, which offers leg assisted pedaling, brain-eyes-arms assisted self-driving (so I can play Minecraft while I'm touring), air conditioning, sun protection, GPS navigation, handlebar mounted radio, mp3 player and cell phone, headlights and taillights for safe night touring, a rack-and-pannier-like innovation called a "trunk", and can be used for stealth camping at the local Walmart parking lot without the burden of carrying tent, sleeping bag and sleeping pad. I won't be carrying cook gear, as the Walmart has an economical fully equipped kitchen area called "McDonalds".
Take lots of pictures, but if you can't, find some on the Internet and pass them off as your own like YKW.
#99
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,489
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1182 Post(s)
Liked 833 Times
in
435 Posts
I suspect in the EU, the intent of the rules concerning e-bikes is not to label an e- bike as a bicycle or motor bike. I believe the intent is to allow motorized bikes meeting certain criteria to use infrastructure designated for bicycles/non- motorized use. It is a use classification not an equipment classification.
I have ridden a lot in Europe and have seen hundreds of people on e- bikes.
I have ridden a lot in Europe and have seen hundreds of people on e- bikes.
#100
Senior Member
I suspect in the EU, the intent of the rules concerning e-bikes is not to label an e- bike as a bicycle or motor bike. I believe the intent is to allow motorized bikes meeting certain criteria to use infrastructure designated for bicycles/non- motorized use. It is a use classification not an equipment classification.
I have ridden a lot in Europe and have seen hundreds of people on e- bikes.
I have ridden a lot in Europe and have seen hundreds of people on e- bikes.
EDIT; Sometimes people are just a little bit tooo literal... Just because a low powered E-Bike is ALLOWED on bicycle trails does NOT mean they are Bicycles...
Last edited by 350htrr; 07-12-16 at 05:27 PM.