fietsbob

If You dont have Goals that a better or a keep it for life Touring Bike frame will solve, It Probably does not matter ..


Real Upgrade would Be one Of Bruce Gordon's Bikes, with His Racks on frame, and Fork ..


Standard, steel road bike tubesets .. down tube and seat tube are 1.125", top tube 1.0"

My Japan Made mid 80's Specialized Expedition , the seat tube and the top tube were 1.125", the down tube 1.25"

a fair bit less frame flex with the pannier Load aboard..

My Koga , 7005 heat treated aluminum, has No Flex at all , a solid load carrying Platform..

bradtx

The differences between touring frames are probably less than any other bicycling niche. This is a very after market sensitive segment, there is a very small amount of leeway in geometry, and while weight conscious, it isn't weight weenie fanatic. A custom made frame can make a significant difference to a rider that just can't find that fitment they're searching for while not actually improving upon the touring capability mission statement.

From the original post there doesn't seem to be any negatives for, Inpd. With experience some may turn up, but they'll be minor enough not to warrant a new frame.

Brad

saddlesores

none.

it's not broke.

don't fix it.

robow

You've been abroad too long and have lost the American sense of always wanting better for no good reason.

lightspree

Can you list exactly what the development has been?

Anyone?

mstateglfr 

It isnt a far fetched hypothetical. People ride Sora and 105 and cant tell the difference. Ive seen it, as in did it with some friends this past summer. Thats just an example to show that if you dont know what you are missing, then how can it be missing?

I have not said and my position is not 'if you have to ask then dont bother'.

I asked the OP what he would like to change and it doesnt look like there is anything to change. My position is that if you like what you have and have not found it limiting, then dont bother.
Significant difference between my position and what you say my position is.

GamblerGORD53

Yah ... No Rohloff = NO improvement.

Happy Feet

Funny, I don't know the LHT personally but I'm trying to think of what major developments have made a significant difference to touring, and I define that for this discussion as traditional loaded on paved roads.

• Better tire technology resulting in more puncture resistance.
• Better braking via the use of Al alloy rims instead of SS.
• Lighter frames via Al or Chromoly use vs Hi Ten steel for mass production.
• Index shifting, though that is debatable by some.
• Introducing the third ring on the crank for granny gears

I think that might be it. Saddles have stayed the same for 100 years. Bearings and hubs haven't really "improved" technologically other than sealed units or cartridge BB's which are set and forget but non serviceable. Disc vs canti's is debatable. A head set is a head set. A good crank back then was as good as a good crank now. Chains are chains, a good derailer is a good derailer.

You could look to two new ideas, or rather modern takes on old ideas, IGH hubs and belt drives and say they are an improvement but that is really a mixed bag. They do resolve some issues but are very expensive and, if you have a problem, knowledgeable repair persons or parts may be an issue. A real benefit for touring bikes is being able to effect repairs in the field or source parts locally.

Inpd

I can see what our informed colleague is getting at.

I started on a cheap ALU frameset for a road bike and notions such as stiffness of BB and precision of steering were foreign to me.

But then I got a bike that had all that and more.

No one had to give it a name, but i knew when i out my foot down it voomed away and i could descend at 30mph effortlessly.

mstateglfr 

If you are going back so far that aluminum vs steel rims are discussed, then there are some significant changes you didnt mention.

Geometry and brazeons. That has made a huge difference for touring.
Being able to connect racks direct to the frame while also running fenders is a big change.
More relaxed geometry for stable steering and heel clearance is a big change.


As for the others you mention...
Indexed shifting is a game changer. As someone who has 3 bikes thst are friction, i fully recognize and appreciate friction shifting, but indexed is absolutely simple and reliable. Its allowed tons of people to better use their bikes. That, to me, is big. Anyone who legitimately tries to argue that indexed isnt a big deal is either unaware or being contrarian.

The 3rd ring has been huge, ageed. More gearing in back has also been huge. Riding a 3x6 vs a 3x9 is a big difference in enjoyment due to the smaller jumps and the ability to typically have a larger range cassette.


Another big development has been the ability for rear derailleurs to handle more capacity and a larger cog. Thats legit tech improvement.

robert schlatte

What were your original reasons for intending to upgrading the Windsor frame? Did you believe it was somehow a substandard frame that needed to be replaced? I assume you believed the components were superior to the frame?

My impression is you got a great deal on a complete ready to go touring bike. The components seem to be completely appropriate for the frame. It seems like you would just be spinning your wheels with no appreciable improvement by rebuilding a new frame with these parts.

If you goal is a better quality touring bike, I would start with selecting the frame first and then buying the components you want.

Happy Feet

I wouldn't really argue the points too much as so much depends on the individual rider. The list was just me head scratching and of course, some things people find a benefit will get a meh from others. Index shifting is one of them I think. I like it but also have no problem riding friction shifters. Others who build touring specific bikes intentionally choose friction. It's one of those personal choice things. Big jump for touring.. I will say maybe, maybe not, depends on the person. For racing, definitely.

Same with more cogs on the cassette. If you can't tour with 18-21 gears choices the problem really is not the freewheel, it's the motor. They are really more a want in touring than a leap that is needed. Are more gears more convenient.. probably I guess. But not really a huge benefit. Again in racing, definitely. The third ring up front is big because it allowed riders to climb hills they would have had to walk or crank up before at the risk of ruining ones knees. You can easily point to that and say Big Improvement!

Geometry and braze on's have been around for a while and I think its a case of just finding the right bike. I know the trend is to have them on the forks too but that really is just mirroring trends towards bike packing. People could put racks on securely before that if they wanted. I've worked on many mid 80's mtbs with long chain stays, good geometry and two eyelets for fenders and racks but many here would say that was a sub optimal low grade frame. I'm currently rebuilding a 75 Raleigh 3sp. that I could easily put racks and fenders on. The clubman was designed specifically for racing and light touring/rambles by members of cycling clubs and has been around in one form or the other since what - early 50's?

I might add a good working folding bike is a big improvement and maybe also SS connectors as they both allow for easy multi platform tours (Car/plane/bus/train).

antokelly

same thing with a top end touring frame, lighter weight/ better tracking /much better finish more than likely a life time guarantee.
nothing wrong with the bike you have but your next one will be a lot better

MixedRider

It sounds like there is nothing you dislike about your current bike. Therefore, nothing to upgrade. Until it breaks or more experience with your current bike finds some shortcomings, then you would know what to upgrade.

escii_35

The old LHTs had hand brazed rack mounting points. Due to the mass production nature of the bicycle, brazing quality varied. Failures happened. The newer LHT dropouts are a single unit and BEEFY. I'm feeling lazy so I'm not going to take pictures right now.

During the same period (before disk dropped to the lower ranges) Bruce G and Rodriguez were hand brazing.

So what do you get on a more expensive bike? Better overall workmanship on hand brazed items.

Yan 

Zero benefit whatsoever.

Perhaps pride of ownership and bragging rights, if you consider those benefits.

antokelly

i'd say your wrong there yan.

Squeezebox

If you can't tell the difference between a very good frame and a very mediocre frame then maybe you're not qualified to answer the OP's question.

mstateglfr 

Can you tell the difference between a very good touring frame and what the OP has?

I have ridden multiple touring bikes. Handbuilt US made late 90s aluminum Cannondale, my current handbuilt lugged triple butted 25yo Fuji frame, older still lugged double butted handbuilt Univega made by Miyata, and a newer tig'd 520.

Are any of these very good frames or are they mediocre? Im just never sure whats good or bad these days.

manapua_man

As far as touring-specific frames go, I've never felt like there was really enough difference between any of the comparable bikes I've tried to say that it's something worth worrying about. IMHO fit and component choices are probably going to be more important if you're not planning on racing. That said, I doubt I'll really be keeping a "touring" frame any time soon since everything else I have doing double-duty works just fine. That and I never seem to be able to settle on what I really *like* on bikes that live mostly on paved surfaces.

bwgride

In addition, the LHT fork has changed and now has additional threaded bolts near the top of the fork. I find these helpful for installing some racks. In addition, disc version of LHT has been introduced.

saddlesores

mediocre: of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance



OP gots a windsor tourist (older model). windsorbicycles.com


nothing "mediocre" about the frame. perfectly suitable as a long-distance touring bike.

it gots touring geometry, as delivered gots components for touring. (course i'd want lower gearing)
jinkies! it's even got 36-spoke touring wheels!



msrp for new models is $1500. that's puts it solidly on the lower trailing edge of high-end (non-custom).

DropBarFan

Touring bikes have high diminishing returns vs road/MTB frames where one can upgrade to alu or carbon for a reasonable price. & with touring frames there's more upgrading complications with fit, wheel/tire size, gearing, attachments. Though if one scans the used bike ads I suppose one might luck into a bargain exotic.

Doug64

Not very exotic, but both our daughters' LHTs were found on Craig's List at very good prices.

Happy Feet

This is a sort of nonsensical statement. Like saying "if you don't know the difference between very good food and very mediocre food". It doesn't actually describe anything. Perhaps you could tell us what features you feel make up a very mediocre frame and what features make up a very good frame so we can better understand what you are talking about.