bikemig 

Is that a coffee filter in the picture? I'm impressed if it is; I'm too lazy to brew my own coffee on a camping trip. I like the snowpeak as well; it's light and packs well. Wind can be an issue.

Leebo

The trangia works well for me. The click stand and stove fit right inside my small pot with cover.

alan s 

Coffee is an essential. I heat up the water, pour the coffee and drink it as I pack up camp in the morning. I actually turned around one time when I left home without coffee (brought everything else to make it). What's an extra 20 miles riding?

bikemig 

Hah, coffee is essential. Starbucks instant is maybe the best instant coffee I've tried but nothing beats a drip (or a press). I may have to get one of those collapsible drips for my next backpacking trip,

trailangel

OK, now this thread has morphed into "What's the best stove to make an instant cup of Starbuck's coffee?"

Doug64

Alan,

Pretty creative wind screen.

Not as good as the food box, but it does help.

Squeezebox

Perfect solution!

Squeezebox

May I assume alcohol stoves are banned during fire bans?

Chuck Naill

The original Peak 1 was not multi fuel. That model came later and was labeled multi fuel which included unleaded gasoline. I posted a link for the multi fuel model so that's where you may be confused. It is not a matter of delicacy, but using a stove properly as the manufacturer designed and intended it to function best.

Unleaded gasoline used in a Coleman/Naptha type lantern or stove will decrease the life of the unit. Like I said, I bought my Peak 1 in 1984 and continue to enjoy it as well as a Peak 1 backpacking lantern. I have never used anything other than Coleman fuel.

I have also restored old lanterns and stoves with Coleman parts.

The point I was making is Coleman fuel is not as readily available as menthol alcohol since most any store carries the product Heet that I posted. YMMV, but I do not want to carry out an experiment of alternative fuels out in the woods.

cyccommute 

Not necessarily but they should be.

What do ya know? They are banned by the US Forest Service:

cyccommute 

You are putting too fine a point on it and not understanding the chemistry. There is no functional difference between "Coleman" fuel and mineral spirits. The two mixtures are essentially the same stuff. "Coleman" fuel and naphtha (mineral spirits, paint thinner, etc) are all the same stuff.

And, frankly, I've seen labeled "Coleman Fuel" all over. It's more readily available than canisters. You'll probably find it in some convenience stores...depends on how far off the beaten track you are.

As for other fuels "damaging" your stove, there's not much it can "damage". Since mineral spirits and "Coleman" fuel are essentially the same material, the seals are compatible and it burns at the same temperature.

Chuck Naill

I wondered when you were going to tell me I did not understand something. Do what you want. It is your stove and your trip. I will stick with what works unless you also want to argue about that.

tmac100

Yup, we do whatever fuel WORKS FOR US!

Let us end (obviously, perhaps) this thread here.

HAPPY bicycle touring and eating food - with whatever fuel you use for cooking it! Onward, regardless of what fuel someone else uses.

bikemig 

Interesting. I'm skeptical that a Trangia is any more dangerous than a butane gas cooker but I understand the concerns about some of the home made alcohol stoves. Still it looks like a butane gas stove may be the one to use when going out West in the summer.

Carbonfiberboy 

Sorry tmac, but I have to respond to this ridiculous bit of misinformation, just in case. Might save someone's life.

"Coleman fuel" is white gas. It's gasoline. It's explosive.

"Mineral spirits" is not gasoline. It's one of a series of similar products which are frequently confused with one another and is more similar to kerosene than anything. "White spirit" is the UK usage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_spirit
Mineral spirits is actually a more refined form of K-1 kerosene. There's also deodorized mineral spirits which is commonly used in lamps and called lamp fuel. "Paint thinner" is also a part of this family but will vary by manufacturer and will probably contain mineral spirits plus other more volatile solvents.

Gas stoves like Coleman, Svea, Peak 1, etc., can only burn gasoline of which Coleman fuel is a pure form. Gas stoves can also burn unleaded pump gas even though it may contain ethanol. Though it's not recommended, I've used pump gas with no ill effects.

Kerosene and multi-fuel stoves can burn any of the fuels related to kerosene/mineral spirits. Kerosene is pretty stinky and leaves a residue on pots. Lamp fuel or mineral spirits burns better. Multi-fuel stoves are called that because they can burn either gasoline or fuels from the kerosene/mineral spirits family.

Alcohol stoves can only burn alcohol. In Europe it's called spiritus.

cyccommute 

To paraphrase the Great Fazzini: "Never go up against a chemist when chemistry is on the line!"

"White gas"...aka "Coleman fuel" or light naphtha...is not "gasoline". Both "white gas" and gasoline are mixtures of hydrocarbons but the similarities end there.

"Gasoline" is a mixture of aromatic and aliphatic hydrocarbons that is meant to burn smoothly in an internal combustion engine. It has a number of additives to enhance the performance and keep the flash point low enough for cold starts of that engine. Once the engine is warm, it is formulated so that the fuel mixture detonates properly in the engine so as not to damage it. "Gasoline" is a very dangerous and hazardous material and should be handled with extreme care.

"White gas" or "Coleman fuel" or naphtha is not gasoline...well at least not "good" gasoline. You could run it in a car engine but you aren't likely to have much of an engine afterwards. It has an octane rating of about 50 which means that the fuel would predetonate (or "knock") in the car's engine severely. The car would run very poorly and probably damage the engine even with short term use. It also has a much higher flash point...about 160°F higher than gasoline...and it contains far less toxic chemicals than gasoline. It's still somewhat dangerous and somewhat hazardous but it's much safer to handle and burn than gasoline is.

Coleman fuel's MSDS list the components as

Although I have seen other information that says that current Coleman fuel has less xylene and toluene (slightly more toxic than the other two components) in it now.

"Mineral spirits" list similar compositions. Which is the point I've been trying to make to Mr. Naill. Similar compositions means similar properties.

I agree that "mineral spirits" isn't gasoline. But then "white gas" isn't "gasoline" either. In terms of composition and properties, it is within the same family of solvents as "mineral spirits".

I would disagree that mineral spirits or Coleman fuel is similar to kerosene, however. Kerosene is the distillation cut from 150°C to 275°C with a molecular range of 6 to 12 carbon atoms. Light naphtha boils between 30°C and 90°C with a molecular range of 5 to 6 carbon atoms.

Mineral spirits can stretch into the 12 carbon atom range but has a higher content of smaller molecules that kerosene does. It is the distillation cut from 20°C to 225°C so there is some overlap with kerosene but there is more overlap with "Coleman fuel".

Multifuel stoves that can burn gasoline and "Coleman fuel". But that doesn't mean that Coleman fuel is "gasoline". Coleman fuel isn't a "pure form" of gasoline. There really isn't such a beast. Gasoline is a mixture of hydrocarbons as is Coleman fuel (and white gas and naphtha and kerosene and mineral spirits and...) but that doesn't mean that they are the "same" mixtures. They have different properties.

"Pure" gas or isooctane from which the octane ratings are derived is actually 2,2,4-trimethylpentane. It was originally given an octane rating of "100"...it's now 109 or 101 depending on whether you are using the Research Octane Number or Motor Octane Number, respectively.. All other fuels for sparked internal combustion engines are measured against this fuel. There are a number of fuels that have higher "octane" ratings then isooctane, however.

trailangel

Thanks for this. I'm glad somebody responded. It's been my experience for over 40 years using SVEA 123 that Coleman fuel is White Gas..... unleaded pump gas. Never heard anybody refer to it as mineral spirits. I don't know what they sell in Colorado , but out here is has always been White Gasoline.....

As a matter of connivence I also use the canister stoves. Pick and choose what is appropriate for your use.

cyccommute 

You and Carbonfiberboy (as well as many others) make the mistake of adding the "oline" to white gas. Prior to studying chemistry eons ago, I made the same mistake. "Gas" isn't necessarily "gasoline" and "white gas" isn't unleaded pump gas. It's no where nearly as dangerous to handle.

Frankly, confusing the two could lead to serious injury as gasoline (or "gas", if you prefer) is so highly flammable that we shouldn't be using it without extreme caution. We use hundred of millions of gallons of it daily in the US without a second thought but familiarity has breed a lot of complacency in its handling. It extremely dangerous stuff.

"White gas"? Not so much.

Coleman fuel, by the way, is used for "fire dancing" and kerosene is used for "fire eating". I would not suggest using gasoline for either.

trailangel

You are wrong

mstateglfr 

Too true. Vizzini was inconceivably wise. He taught me to never get involved in a land war in Asia.

indyfabz

Maybe his confusion comes from the fact that, at least according to Wiki, the term "white gas" is used by some to describe "pure" (i.e., without additives like lead) gasoline:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_gas


I am no chemist, but I have always understood things like MSR White Gas (n/k/a "Super Fuel"), Coleman Fuel and Crown Camp Fuel to be naptha-based products, not pure gasoline.

wschruba

The ban on alcohol stoves (supported by the rest of the list) seems to have more to do with the stove having the ability to tip and spill its fuel. It would seem that any stove that could tip over (so, all of them?) would be just as dangerous in very dry conditions.

Not much sense to the prohibition, but them's the rules.

Squeezebox

Anybody want to call some of the stove companies and get their opinions in this argument. There's obviously some mis-information being slung around. Sounds to me trailangel doesn't have a clue, and cyccommute probably does. But what do I know?

bikemig 

Right but a butane stove with cooking gear on top is tippy; the trangia 27 or 25 has perhaps the most solid base of any camping cookware I've seen. But I agree them's the rules and I totally understand why the ban on alcohol stoves. Just something to keep in mind if touring out west.

BigAura

I think it's based on actual instances of fires started by people using alcohol stoves in general, but not necessarily trangia. Alcohol stoves when knocked over do spill their contents. When lit this can cause a very rapidly spreading fire. This circumstance along with the difficulty of seeing the alcohol flame is a very dangerous combination. I'm quite sure most (if not all) alcohol stove users have been surprised and/or burned by their stove and the "invisible flame".

Butane stoves do not spill when knocked over and are easily righted should they fall.