hfbill

I'd like to hear some real world experiences with Rohloff or Pinion gearing systems as well as with drive belts. I see many possible advantages, as well as potential drawbacks. Let's leave the expense of them out of the discussion as that's obvious and something I'm already well aware of. What I'm interested in finding out is, if they work, how well they work, and how reliable & durable they are.

Thanks!

fietsbob

I bought a Used, Koga Miyata WTR world tour Rohloff (it was a mechanics Special, deal, but I saved Money
on a bike I could not have bought in The US at all... it leaked oil , so I sent it to R'off USA.
[I loosened the screwed on cog then unlaced the spokes , so I just shipped the hub]

They put in new seals, and they shipped it back ( Cycle Monkey in SF area absorbed the Wholesale, parts, and service functions in this country )

QBP also sells the Hubs , but only a select few parts. like the oil change kit and 16t, the standard, cogs



then ..
I got a deal from Bike Friday, on a Pocket Llama with another R' off.. the hubs themselves have been proven, reliable world wide..


Mine are Chain drive .. the hub is 3_3speeds and a reduction gear to run thru those gears twice ..

1:1 is # 11. [10 reduction gears, + 3 overdrive] so for super low gears , the 20" wheel is a winner.. I have my Koga at the recommended minimum a 38:16 .. 26" wheels..

the same gear range on the BiFri is a 53:16.. so .. for super low a double crank will extend the range... [39-53?]

to assess extreme condition users , there have been recent offerings , 36 hole hubshells , (3 cross builds)
reinforcing rings to hold the hub flanges together (Gear loaded tandem users on Andes mountain Treks)

And a Snap ring fixed splined sprocket, to make flipping that cog over to use twice (now including the 13T)

and field replacement of that cog is no more difficult than a 3 speed Though the spline is unique, 13 notch,

But you can bring an extra cog.. & only need a screwdriver to pry off the snap-ring.






Belt Drive, one problem can be stranding you with a broken sprocket or belt.

LBS has a broken crank sprocket, trophy..
Owner had to enjoy the Local Hospitality businesses for almost a week (Including a weekend) to replace that part via special order..

and you are probably aware of how a Belt Drive frame has to open to let the belt stay in 1 loop .. And frame needs to tension the belt.



Over..

niknak

We have a Rohloff that came on a used tandem we bought from eBay. I'm not a fan. Here are some reasons why:

1- You really have to ease up on the pedals in order to shift. On a tour down the Pacific coast, we tried to shift to an easier gear when we came upon a surprise hill and the mechanism shifted to gear 11 (one of the hardest gears) instead. We couldn't pedal in that gear so we had to walk the bike to the top of the hill. Since the shoulder was blocked by concrete barriers, we were forced to walk in the road. Not pleasant.

2- My hub currently leaks oil. I'll eventually have to figure out why and do the work myself because I don't want to spend $$$ to ship the wheel to a certified repair shop. In the mean time the bike sits idle until I take on the project.

3- The hub weight is significant. On a tandem it's not really a big deal, but on a single bike the weight should be centered. The Pinion system looks much better for this reason.

4- There's no good solution for drop bars. I set up the bike with the Gebla Rohbox and Sram shifters. You can only shift one gear at a time. I knew about this going into the project, but thought it wouldn't be a big deal. On a heavily-loaded bike the ability to switch gears quickly as the terrain changes is crucial. I switched back to the stock twist shifter and flat bars. Perhaps the Co-Motion twist shifter provides a better drop bar experience.

5- The hub is noisy. In gear 7 especially the hub makes a lot of noise when pedaling. I was always relieved when I shifted out of that gear.

Anybody want to buy a S&S-coupled Thorn touring tandem with a Rohloff and SP dynamo hub?

Tourist in MSN

Quite happy with Rohloff. Have no opinion on pinion. Rohloffs are pretty rare in USA, but more common in Europe. I think I saw eight different bikes in Iceland last summer with Rohloffs on them, two of which had belts and the rest were chain. I have chain on mine. The Rohloff is hidden in the photo behind a pannier. I found it to be very reliable and am quite happy with the bike. I bought the frame and fork new, bought the components and built it up myself.

For touring, it is best to set your chainring size based on the lowest gear you want for hill climbing. I felt that he slowest that I wanted to try to pedal up a hill was 3.5 mph and I wanted a cadence of about 72 at that speed. So I did the calculations to figure out what size chainring I needed for that. With that low a gear, I will spin out on the long shallow downhills, but I would rather have the hill climbing gear than not have it so I can live without the downhill gears on that bike. Around home when I am not touring I use a bigger chainring for higher gears.

One of the belt owners I talked to felt that it was a bit slower than a chain driven bike. But that is only one persons opinion, so don't put too much faith in that. The other belt owner I talked to said that they carried a spare belt since no bike shops had them. But any bike shop can sell you an eight speed chain.

I use drop bars. I tried several options and finally decided that I liked the HubBub adapter to put the shifter on the end of the handlebars. I have used bar end shifters on derailleur bikes for decades, so putting the shifter on the bar end is quite natural for me.
23 Ways to Run Rohloff Shifters with Road Drop Handlebars - CyclingAbout

Without more specificity to your question(s) I can't really say much.

bwgride

Below is my post from a 2013 thread on Rohloffs. The more exotic the equipment, the more trouble one faces when it fails.

***********************

There's much support for Rohloffs and they are nifty and fun. It seems many believe they are absolutely dependable. They can fail just like anything else that is complex and man-made. In a post I made several years ago I documented a number of folks who experienced failure while touring. You can see links to these in post 17 of this thread:

https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/51...at-s-word.html

Other thoughts about limitations with Rohloffs can be found in this thread:

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/556908 (old link does not work)

There are also many who speak of the virtues of the hub in those posts.

Cost seems to be the primary limitation; one could replace a derailleur, rear hub, and cassette many times for the cost of a Rohloff. But if one has the Rohloff bug, and it seems interesting, then go for it!

fietsbob

Im happy with IGH, I Had a 3 speed on 1957 ... The slight pause in pushing, to let the Gear shift ..

Not wanting to do that says more a bout the Rider than the hardware .

Shifting under power on derailleur drive trains is hard on equipment too .. Results are broken Chains.. Etc.

so even on my Derailleur bikes , I let the shifting from one cog to another happen in the least force situation, rather than Force a Shift, ... Anticipate..

Its Touring, not Racing..

J.Higgins 

I own neither, but the positive reviews far-outnumber the negative. My dream bike right now is a Pinion-driven Tout Terrain Silkroad Xplore.

SparkyGA

The worst part about Rohloff's? I keep spelling it as Rolhoff or auto corrected as Rolloff.

Mine had 52000 km. Would have had a another 8000 km by now but the bike was stolen.

Tourist in MSN

Regarding the comment above on shifting on a tandem, I can see where it might be hard to downshift on a hill with a tandem. But on a solo bike I can let up on the pedaling pressure for a split second while I shift and have no problem at all. On a derailleur bike when I am going up a hill I am more likely to have a problem downshifting my front derailleur than I am on downshifting my Rohloff. But on a solo bike I do not need to coordinate letting up the pressure on the pedals with another rider which may be why I think that it could be more problematic with a tandem.

So, are you saying I have to read a four page thread to find out what failure you had on your Rohloff? I think I will skip that.

bwgride

Wow, ok, why give this type of reply? As you know, no one has to read anything posted in this forum.

For those interested in reading the number of documented failures I located, one could scroll through to pages to find the post I made -- my avatar, a tomato, is not difficult to spot. If not interested, don't read.

hfbill

>Belt Drive, one problem can be stranding you with a broken sprocket or belt.

I would imagine one could carry a spare belt, but sprockets?

Thanks for the response!

52telecaster

My problem with the whole rohloff pinion thing is expense. I can't possibly afford them so there is not point I considering them. One of my bikes is 8x2 derailleur and one is sturmey archer aw 3 speed with a trip!e crank. I can appreciate the advantages that really expensive stuff might give you but I won't be using any of it.

I did see a guy riding a thorn with rohloff on my last trip. It was cool but I was plenty happy with my rig compared to his. BTW you can't see his hub but he is dressed in yellow and was a great guy.

Squeezebox

The custom frame issue?? means $$$.
I'm fine with derailleurs.

Tourist in MSN

Sorry for being a jerk, the timer for my food in the oven had just gone off and I was in a rush to get off the keyboard. Thus, I was overly concise and came off as a jerk. My point was that I have seen lots of people badmouth certain kinds of equipment (Rohloffs, rim brakes, square taper cranks, etc.) but they can't cite any personal experience so I was just asking (too bluntly now that I look at what I wrote) what your Rohloff failure was.

Please accept my apology. I will look through that thread for your tomato.

bwgride

Thanks for the kind reply. Here's a direct link to my post with examples of failures. These were found in 2009, so things may have changed since then.

https://www.bikeforums.net/8409218-post17.html

fietsbob

niknak,
You need to get slack in the system to drop to a Low gear on a derailleur bike too..

Your issue of 1 gear at a time was because of the Brifter lever, not the Rohbox.

those can be shifted with a Loop of cable, to pull one way or another rotating the gear sequencing cam in the hub..

Other solutions got the grip shifter to go up by the stem.

oversized grip shifter to make it around the bar Curves, or a Split bar combined in the middle .

(the lowly "GMC" Denali used grip shifted derailleurs with a Split 22.2 tube Drop bar.)

Re Surprise Hill :

One Technique, turn across the road head down hill shift to the gear you need for that hill,
then turn back across the road and continue up hill in the gear you wanted before.



7th is High gear like 14th, but it goes thru a compound low reduction gear

8th gear is the lowest gear in High Range , that double shift is done Internally
and the protective mechanism to not break things inside is that default to the 1:1 gear..

I own a Schlumpf Mountain drive crank on my 3 speed Brompton it is a similar reduction epicyclic gear ..

It Or I, does a similar thing if I put it into low range and go from 4th [high /direct in the crank]
low in the hub to 3rd, high in the hub & in reduction gear on the crank...

Which is not connected to the chain ring, but thru it's Gear Box, so the cranks turn faster
than the chainring.


...

randallr

Our son has a Rohloff on a bike used daily as his sole personal transportation in Myanmar for over five years. For him, the lower maintenance/part replacement requirements and reduced corrosion issues have been beneficial.

niknak

My response and opinions about the Rohloff are based on using one on a tandem. On a tandem you don't have the ability to zig zag across the road to ease up on the gears enough to downshift. Plus, we were riding on Hwy 1 near Bixby Bridge. There was enough traffic coming both directions to make that kind of maneuver dangerous.

As the captain, I want my shifting controls to be beside the brakes so I don't have to move my hands to shift or brake. All of the drop bar solutions except the Rohbox require one to move their hands. Since the Rohbox can only shift one gear at a time it was inadequate for me. I switched back to the standard twist shifter on some Jones Loop bars and that setup is fine.

I'd still prefer standard derailleurs on the tandem. On a single bike I'd go with the Pinion system if I were to chose between the two expensive systems. I'd prefer the weight of the gear drive to be centered on the bike.

For me though a standard drivetrain is perfect for touring. Easy to maintain. Easy to service. Parts are readily available. Nothing is expensive.

fietsbob

Any How other readers .. see a Hill ahead of you , get in the Granny triple at the bottom of the Hill

and the smaller cogs on your cassette, then as the hill gets steeper you shift to bigger gears on the rear wheel..


Had a Brief Discussion with the Staff @ Cycle Monkey that wholesale that stuff.

the ratchet wheel is not the issue , the SRAM Brifter modifivation may have been the culprit.

any lever with a return spring (few if any exist) will do ..

A loop of cable even. .. just release the cable tension and those pawls catch..

there is an Australian company offering a stepper motor on the External shift box end, + buttons on the bars . for convenience..

Myself I run Trekking bars and so the brakes and the grip shifter are right at hand.


By the way out on the coast , the visitors passing thru , have higher end bikes than the residents ,
and shop stocks are thus more for the mid and lower end stuff .

So Campag is all shipped in upon request.

I stuck with friction bar ends for shifting my old touring bikes to have that reliable.

6 by 3 ..




...

GamblerGORD53

Here is the BIG discussion a couple years ago: https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/10...ring-bike.html
Maybe the broken inner hubs were because of shifting under pressure. BIG NO NO IMO.

Rohloff IGH is superior/ deraillers inferior in many ways.
1. Doesn't have adjustment screws. Set and FORGET, same goes for my SA-XL FDD dyno DRUM front.
2. Install it and ride it for 3 or 4 thousand miles until oil drain = transamerica.
3. Shifting is a no brainer, up or down. 5 gears at at time often. No kerchunks. No hesitation. Cog flutter not possible.
4. Absolutely NO need to think ahead about downshifting in the middle of a steep hill, just not possible at 3 mph with deR's.
5. Chain drops and shifter destroying your spokes is NOT possible with IGH.
6. Mud/ ice has zero effect on anything but an open chain.
7. Doesn't need as low of a gear, straight line chain is very efficient. and therefore no constant chain fluttering.
8. High or low speed bumps cannot throw the chain astray.
9. IGH makes it better to hold speed and power going up the back side of dips.
10. My shifter is pointed UP on the TT, can be used with either hand. Rohloff shifters are rather slippery.
11. My Rohloff 14 is geared 23 to 120 GI. All evenly and perfectly spaced. All used every hilly ride.
12. Deraillers have maybe 50% efficiency when dirty, only takes 20 wet sandy miles to do that. Riding on a cold slushy day can reduce you to ONE gear. LOL ... IGH is the same ALL the time.
13. Crashes, tall grass have no effect on a Rohloff.
14. Derailler parts are made to fail in 6,000 miles. Rohloff/ Sturmey Archer 3 spd go 60,000 miles easy. Spare cog would fit in my pocket.
15. Slamming on the brakes and then downshifting is not a struggle.
16. Spoke breakage is seldom possible.
17. More reliable than any derailler. Double shifting is STUPIDLY complicated IMO.
18. LBS in many countries have no clue about your derailler parts either.
19. Rohloff gets BETTER with age.
20. There is really NO such thing as between gears, for me at least. I know about that with my SA 5w.

There are 250,000 Rohloffs now, sales still going higher. Sooo there were 20? failures??? LOL
I guarantee there are thousands of broken hangers, deraillers, chains, shifters, spokes. On CGOAB a guy wrote about getting a stick in his deR and couldn't even walk the bike, so a 300 mile ride of shame in BC.

Mine has 10,600 miles since 2014, only 3 oil and cog changes. I would have a more but my SA 5w is so fun and faster, except uphills over 9%. My shifter is on a DIY knob on the long TT. so I can use either hand, but can't see the # window. The noisy #7 lets me know what gear I'm in and I'm now going UP hill. This also gets the cable clutter the hell away from the front, 2 brake cables is bad enough. I have ZERO problem shifting at any time I'm able to stay upright. Ever shifted your manual CAR without using the CLUTCH ??? LOL STUPID. It has made strange sounds a time or 2.

Mine was 48/16T in SE Asia, but next time a better 46/16T. 21.5 to 115 GI is fine for me. Coasting down the front of dips is laughable to me. I will full speed power up the other side still in high gear until speed drops to 23, then downshift 3 at a time. Walking up hills, 32 GI, is only 1 mph slower, so WTH. I used #14 every day with steeper hills. Gets me to the next city faster than any low gear. I now have a DIY CF chaincase.

I saw an old guy like me in Hanoi. He had a Rohloff with belt and only changed tires in Istanbul on the way from Holland. He only rode the train over the desolate mountains behind Chengdu. His bike was bare when I saw it.
PS = I have the external shifter which only needs a big coin to open. I like the external brace arm which came in handy when I got bumped broadside by a Honda 150 in VN and rolled in another crash.

Tourist in MSN

Regarding the debate on Rohloffs vs derailleur bikes, each has its own advantages and disadvantages. Neither is better than the other for all situations. I regularly ride about three or four of my bikes each year, one has a Rohloff and the others derailleur gearing.

My last tour (the first of the two photos above in post four is from that tour) was on my Rohloff bike. My next tour will be on a derailleur bike. For both of these tours, the choice is not just about the drive train, I am also factoring in which bike is better considering the terrain and logistics. I met with my touring partner today to plan logistics for the next tour, it was then that I decided that my derailleur touring bike would be better for the next trip. But before that meeting, both bikes were in the running.

Since I built up my Rohloff bike in 2013, I have used the Rohloff bike on three trips and a derailleur bike on two trips. I expect that my future tours will be on both types of bikes, derailleur and Rohloff. Each trip has its own equipment needs, and that is what I will consider when choosing which bike to take.

Squeezebox

Well spoken.

hfbill

Thanks for your perspective, Could you elaborate on what you mean by "Logistics" and what types of terrain favour Rohloff or Derailleur?

GamblerGORD53

Here is what I just happened to find, looking at Vietnam bike videos yesterday. He is pissed at having 3 crap derailler rear hubs crap out in one trip. The pawls were the problem. LOL
GARBAGE TECHNOLOGY for touring.
Anyway, he has very good daily videos of his whole trip thru 7 countries.

Tourist in MSN

My Rohloff bike is a heavy duty touring bike, rated to carry about 60 kg of gear not counting weight of rider. It also have S&S couplers and I often run 57mm tires on it. It weighs probably 5 to 7 pounds more than my derailleur touring bike. For touring I use a 36T chainring and 16t sprocket, gear range of 16.5 to 86.5 gear inches.

My derailleur touring bike is rated to carry about 30 to 35 kg of gear not counting weight of rider. (I have seen conflicting information from manufacturer, thus not sure on exact capacity). Does not have S&S couplers, so this bike would be more complicated and costly to take on an airplane (logistics). Widest tires with fenders is 50mm, so I would rather not use this on really rough roads. I am running a road triple with an eight speed 11/32 cassette on it. It has a range (with my current chainrings) of 19.2 to 106.8 gear inches but sometimes I use higher gearing (chainrings) for strong taillinds or long shallow downhills.

The lower gearing on teh Rohloff bike favors the steep uphills. The wider tires on the Rohloff favors the rougher roads (or trails). The ligher weight and lighter capacity of the derailleur bike favor pavement trips were re-supply can be frequent.

In other words, both bikes are quite different, the Rohloff is only part of what makes them different.

Both bikes have rim brakes, both are 559mm (26 inch), so I can use my dynohub wheel on either bike. And for touring I usually use the same rear rack, same pedals, same saddle, these things get switched to the bike that I plan to tour with.

Photo of the Rohloff bike is in a post above, photo of teh derailleur bike is below.