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Old 03-10-17, 05:55 AM   #51
Robert C
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Those are "someones." The point being is that there is no real property that is not owned by a person or entity, outside of of Antartica and relatively few other places.

And the post you quoted never discussed legality of any activity. Again, I was merely pointing out that there is no property "outside of property lines." Reading comprehension is fundamental.
OK, you are going to be insulting, I am going to call you a liar. You said:
Quote:
All real property is legally owned by someone.
Now you changed your statement to say:
Quote:
there is no real property that is not owned by a person or entity
It is true,
Quote:
Reading comprehension is fundamental
However, not changing your statement mid-conversation, and thinking no one will notice it, is also fundamental.
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Old 03-10-17, 06:18 AM   #52
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OK, I just had a very rude awaking. For the first time, I started doing some research into campsites and fees. All I can say is that it was very disgusting and demotivating to see the outrageous fees that these campsites charge for you to pitch your little tent on a little plot of dirt, using no resources of theirs or anything else, inside their fences. Clearly everyone is expected to be a baller in their expensive and expansive RV in this country, and the campsites are charging accordingly. Are all countries like this?

So since that kind of money isn't a reality for me, and I'm sure for many others as well. What are some free to low cost options for camping?

I've heard of "stealth/wild camping", and I've done a little research into how and where it's legal and not legal, so of course I'll be gong for legal, unless something serious happens and I have no choice at the time. Of course "leave no trace", and all that good stuff. But what other information on this, as well as any other options can you share with me and point me to?
Come to Scotland where you can wildcamp. The Access Code allows non-motorised responsible access to unenclosed areas. An exception being some parts of Loch Lomond who've recently introduced some bylaws to prohibit wild camping.
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Old 03-10-17, 06:47 AM   #53
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OK, you are going to be insulting, I am going to call you a liar. You said:


Now you changed your statement to say:


It is true, However, not changing your statement mid-conversation, and thinking no one will notice it, is also fundamental.
This is about as needlessly argumentative post as I've seen here in awhile. Someone needs to chill.
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Old 03-10-17, 06:59 AM   #54
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OK, you are going to be insulting, I am going to call you a liar. You said:


Now you changed your statement to say:


It is true, However, not changing your statement mid-conversation, and thinking no one will notice it, is also fundamental.
Just clarifying that my original "someone" included entities, since you didn't understand that. Corporations are generally treated as people in the eyes of the law. Read up on U.S. Supreme Court jurisprudence and you will realize that there are countless decisions addressing the constitutional rights of corporations.

Enjoy the day!
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Old 03-10-17, 09:37 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Just clarifying that my original "someone" included entities, since you didn't understand that. Corporations are generally treated as people in the eyes of the law. Read up on U.S. Supreme Court jurisprudence and you will realize that there are countless decisions addressing the constitutional rights of corporations.

Enjoy the day!
I am familiar with the Citizens United ruling. However, you seem to be extending them to Government agencies.

When you come off as rude as you did when you said:
Quote:
Reading comprehension is fundamental
You need to back up that statement by showing that you were misread. The facts are that I did not misread. Further, government agencies are not "someone."

You then changed your claim to include agencies, while continuing to claim that I am to stupid to understand you. The facts are that you are being both rude and disingenuous.

The facts are that land ownership is a complicated topic and cannot be neatly summed up with the statement:
Quote:
All real property is legally owned by someone.
To complicate it even beyond land owned by "the people" in a collective sense, I am aware of several large holdings by a organization that no longer exists. This particular organization ceased to exist over forty years ago; yet they remain the owners of record. To complicate your claim that his organization is still "someone," this organization was never incorporated and it ceased to exist prior to Citizens United.

To give a brief explanation of how this odd situation came about, the land was owned by a monastery that was in the Pacific Territories of the Russian Empire. The order ceased to exist in the early 1960's.

Then came the problem, the order, when dissolved, transferred named properties, to the Orthodox Church. The problem was that this, and several other parcels (understand, these parcels are over a thousand acres) were not named and the transfer did not say anything to the effect of "all property of . . ." instead it named the things to be transferred. At the end, the order was in San Francisco and probably did not even remember that these properties were part of their holdings.

Now the obvious solution to this is to say that the property would be condemned by the county for back taxes and then sold. However, the parcels pre-dated the counties and, as part of the treaty with the Russian Empire (which, by the way, no longer exists; so you can not extend your claim of "someone" to state that they are owned by the emperor), are not subject to land taxes.

The county the parcel I started this research in was fine with the situation and the parcel is used for hiking, Mountain bike riding, and camping (in fact, the local Mt. Bike club has a path going through the parcel, linking paths in two areas of National Forest land). I did a lot of research into these parcels. No one owns them.

. . . I am starting to think this might make a decent book . . .

I know of three of these parcels, the smallest of which is over 200 acres and the largest is over a thousand acres. I am only one person. I suspect that there are many more, similar, lands. Frankly, I am glad places like that exist, they serve as nature preserves that are resistant to exploitation.

Last edited by Robert C; 03-10-17 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 03-10-17, 10:02 AM   #56
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This is about as needlessly argumentative post as I've seen here in awhile. Someone needs to chill.
It would not have gone downhill as it did if indyfabz had resisted the urge to be insulting. I perceived his statement:
Quote:
Reading comprehension is fundamental
, in the manner it was delivered, to be quite insulting.

As much as I prefer polite discourse, such extreme rudeness, when directed at me, is not something that I am comfortable in leaving un-challenged. Like you, I would prefer a forum where all participants constrained themselves by the dictates of mutual courtesy.
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Old 03-10-17, 10:02 AM   #57
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It must still be winter...
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Old 03-10-17, 10:10 AM   #58
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On the ECT, a couple summers ago, my daughter and I camped freely at the locks scattered along the route. For those, within city limits, that prohibited camping we just rode a bit out of town and pitched our tent on the side of the trail/road. No problems, but we were just a father-daughter out on an overnight bike ride so we usually waited until it got dark to set up tent and left early in the morning.
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Old 03-10-17, 11:22 AM   #59
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I'll have to go with escheat as the governing legal principle in the situation described by our esteemed colleague Robert C.
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Old 03-10-17, 09:21 PM   #60
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Stealth camping on power-line areas? Might be illegal in most areas, OTOH sometimes they're not too close to houses, have shrubs/trees for cover, easy access etc.
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Old 03-10-17, 10:57 PM   #61
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Come to Scotland where you can wildcamp........
Ditto with Australia. I do it every time i bicycle there. The outback is HUGE... with roadhouses every 100+ km for food/washing/etc...
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Old 03-13-17, 01:53 PM   #62
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Ditto with Australia. I do it every time i bicycle there. The outback is HUGE... with roadhouses every 100+ km for food/washing/etc...
As I understand it a roadhouse in Australia is more or less what we call a truck stop in the USA. Is that right? Not the older use of the term here, which is like an inn.
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Old 03-14-17, 11:03 AM   #63
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As I understand it a roadhouse in Australia is more or less what we call a truck stop in the USA. Is that right? Not the older use of the term here, which is like an inn.
It depends on where you are in Australia.

When I rode "the Nullabore" (aka Hwy 1 east of Norseman to Peterborough) in July 2015, I was in "the real outback" and there the locals needed services. Thus, roadhouses at places like Balladonia, Cocklebiddy, Border village, etc were "truck stops" with restaurants (and a bar), a laundry, and a motel etc. Many had some groceries (and take-away beer/wine/liquor) as well as campsites with power/not to put up everything from a caravan/motorhome to a tent. They also had an Auspost mail service and I picked up "General Delivery" packages (of food supplies). They had wi-fi and it was free if you were a paying customer. Having food, a couple of beers and a chat was a nice break from the bicycle.

Along the highway between Adelaide and Wagga, the area was more populated and there was no need for groceries/mail/liquor services from them like in the "real outback" so usually roadhouses were just truck stops (as called in USA/Canada) where you could just get a meal and maybe a shower.

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