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Old 03-17-17, 02:51 AM   #51
saddlesores
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Originally Posted by Squeezebox View Post
No I would not. Look up the prices yourself...
currently on amazon, we gots a variety of truing stands starting at fitty bucks, and dishing tools
for thirty. spoke tensiometer by park, nice but not necessary, adds another seventy-five bucks.

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If you built your tools out of garbage my guess is they still are. Not to be trusted for accuracy....
why? other than the tensionmeter, them tools is just chunks of metal and or plastic.
nothing particularly special, unless your perception is that the price tag makes 'em gooder.
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Old 03-17-17, 06:29 AM   #52
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Oh my, Squeeze. What you said was that after buying the tools it would then be cheaper to have the wheels "pro" built. I couldn't make any sense of that, so I asked. Maybe you didn't say what you meant? Anyway I already have a stand and the Park meter, no need to shop.
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Old 03-17-17, 08:04 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Squeezebox View Post
Last time I looked stand + tension meter + dish tool was well over $ 200.
We can get that down to $130 for 3 decent tools

I bought this particular dishing tool for about $25 and it works very nicely, simple but well made. By the second set of wheels that you have made or possibly even just trued, you may have paid for your tools.

wiggle.com | LifeLine Wheel Dishing Gauge | Workshop Tools

http://www.wiggle.com/park-tools-spoke-tension-meter/

Last edited by robow; 03-17-17 at 08:11 AM.
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Old 03-17-17, 08:46 AM   #54
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Originally I had a truing stand that I believe sells for $50, and nothing else. And I think I got that used. That stand paid for itself the first or second time I had to replace a spoke. And I went on to build several wheels on that stand.

I currently have about $250 worth of wheel building tools, but only because when the insurance paid for me to replace all my tools, I decided to upgrade my wheel building tools at the expense of some other tools I used less often. My local bike shop charges $50/wheel for a build. I've currently built 4 wheels on my new set-up. So if you omit any truing that I've done between wheel builds, I'm one wheel away from having saved $250 by building my own wheels. I have plans this year to build two more sets at least.

So sure, it's more economical just to pay someone to build your wheels... if you insist on spending a lot for the equipment and if you only ever have one or two wheelsets and they never need maintenance.

It also saves money because you can buy your components when it's most advantageous. I knew a 26" wheelset was in my future, so when a good rim supplier put their 26" rims on sale, I grabbed a pair. Later I found a good deal on the hubs I wanted. Someone was selling the tire I wanted for cheap, so I grabbed that. I think the only thing I paid full price for was the tire for the 2nd wheel, and maybe the spokes. If I had gone to a wheel builder and handed them a parts list, I would have paid current retail for everything.

So, yeah, it's a handy skill to have on tour, and it it might get you on the road faster, but there's no doubt it's a cheaper way to get exactly the wheelset you want. It's also a way to get things done on your own schedule. If I'm building a spare set, I can take all the time in the world, but the last wheel I built involved reusing the rim of my current wheel but replacing the hub. It had to be done in one afternoon. I can't think of a time I've been able to drop my bike off for a repair and pick it up the same day.
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Old 03-17-17, 08:49 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by robow View Post
We can get that down to $130 for 3 decent tools

I bought this particular dishing tool for about $25 and it works very nicely, simple but well made. By the second set of wheels that you have made or possibly even just trued, you may have paid for your tools.

wiggle.com | LifeLine Wheel Dishing Gauge | Workshop Tools

wiggle.com | Park Tools Spoke Tension Meter | Workshop Tools
I have the same dishing tool and it gets the job done. My only wish is that it were a little wider as it barely fits a 700c wheel. I find myself obsessing over fractions of a mm when wheel building and have settled on a "go no go" setup to force me to stop. My rule is that it's time to stop when I can't pass a 0.045" piece of weld wire through the largest gap, (radial and lateral), but always try to get dish tighter. I find that I need to use the wire as a hard stop or I'll keep trying to "make it a little better" until I have to de-tension the wheel and start over.
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Old 03-17-17, 10:06 AM   #56
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I have the same dishing tool and it gets the job done. My only wish is that it were a little wider as it barely fits a 700c wheel.
Hmm, strange, I wonder why, I have no problem sliding the plastic blocks out far enough for all my 700c rims?

Yea, I've told my wife that wheel building is not for the OCD, even when you do get it almost perfect and of course you then prestress your wheels, but then first ride out and you hit a pothole and you're now a hair off. Ha
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Old 03-17-17, 10:28 AM   #57
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Hmm, strange, I wonder why, I have no problem sliding the plastic blocks out far enough for all my 700c rims?

Yea, I've told my wife that wheel building is not for the OCD, even when you do get it almost perfect and of course you then prestress your wheels, but then first ride out and you hit a pothole and you're now a hair off. Ha
Not sure, mine is a Super B branded one and is a few years old but looks identical to yours. Mine feels like it's about 1/4 to 1/2" too short but maybe that's my OCD kicking in as it certainly gets the job done and I paid $35 from Taiwan so I won't complain.

I'm not as OCD as I used to be but still seek out rough patches of road to "test" the build on the first few rides and certainly have to force myself to stop at a certain point of the build because perfection just isn't possible when wheel building as there are too many conflicting constraints. I used to pop the wheels and put them back on the stand after a couple of initial rough rides, now I leave them on the bike and eyeball the true and run a quick tension check. For some reason I find wheel building to be quite a relaxing process.
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Old 03-17-17, 11:53 AM   #58
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I believe that knowing how to replace a spoke and true a wheel (roughly) while on a tour is a good skill to have. However, knowing how to build a wheel, while a good skill to have, is not (edit)necessary for touring.

I think of the wheels as the most important parts of the bike. You can jury-rig a lot of things, but an inoperable wheel is a show stopper. I prefer to let someone who has built 100s, maybe even 1000s of wheel sets, build my touring wheels. At Universal Cycles in Portland, I can get custom built wheels for just about the price of the components. Their wheel builders are excellent, and proven. Between my wife and I, we have put about 50,000 miles on 3 sets of their wheels, and have only had to true one wheel once. FWIW: Velocity Dyad 36 spoke rims, Wheelsmith DB spokes, and Ultegra, 105 and XT hubs.

I hit a large piece of metal debris while descending a hill into Medicine Hat, Alberta. I was going about 30 mph when I hit it. The force was enough to blow the tire and dent the rim. Even with the damage, the rim was still true and round! Luckily, Medicine Hat had a bike shop that had one wheel that would work.

I called the guy who built my wheels, asking him about bending the rim's sidewall back into place. He did not recommend trying that approach. If I had disc brakes, I would have continued on, but we still had about 1000 miles to go and I wanted my front brake.

You can see the bulge on the left side of the rim. It extends inboard, and can be seen on the right side of the machined braking surface to about halfway to the spoke hole. I'm not sure a wheel built by a less experienced builder (me) would have fared as well. I almost cried as the mechanic cut out my hub so I could mail it home.


Last edited by Doug64; 03-17-17 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 03-17-17, 01:09 PM   #59
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Doug,
In some cases you might be correct but I can guarantee you that I'm willing to spend a lot more time building my wheels and therefore making sure they are right than any paid employee could possibly afford to.
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Old 03-17-17, 01:11 PM   #60
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Doug,
In some cases you might be correct but I can guarantee you that I'm willing to spend a lot more time building my wheels and therefore making sure they are right than any paid employee could possibly afford to.
I agree, and you have experience, and get better results than I do

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Old 03-17-17, 04:31 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Doug64 View Post
I believe that knowing how to replace a spoke and true a wheel (roughly) while on a tour is a good skill to have. However, knowing how to build a wheel, while a good skill to have, is not (edit)necessary for touring.

I think of the wheels as the most important parts of the bike. You can jury-rig a lot of things, but an inoperable wheel is a show stopper.
Bingo, Doug.

That was the intent of my thread. To bring awareness, a little wheel experience is a great asset to have on the roadside. Wheels can be massaged, and mildly trued to prevent a poor situation from become a show stopper. Bike shops can be a long way off. Also a good reason to tour with a bike that parts can be sourced on route.
I was sweating over a failing drive wheel for three days on the Canadian Prairies last summer.

Man, I sure look forward to touring this spring.



-Snuts-

Last edited by Snuts; 03-17-17 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 03-17-17, 05:12 PM   #62
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Bingo, Doug.

....a little wheel experience is a great asset to have on the roadside. Wheels can be massaged, and mildly trued to prevent a poor situation from become a show stopper. Bike shops can be a long way off. Also a good reason to tour with a bike that parts can be sourced on route.
I was sweating over a failing drive wheel for three days on the Canadian Prairies last summer.

Man, I sure look forward to touring this spring.



-Snuts-
That it is... The first time I ever attempted to true a wheel was trail side outside of Mckeesport on the GAP. I spend a lot of time riding the GAP as it's in my back yard. One evening I was doing a quick ride and came across a gentleman with a broken spoke, he had ridden from DC, was less than 20mi from the Point and was dead in the water. We got to talking and he had no idea how to fix the spoke, nor did I, another guy on a recumbent rolled up and was willing to give advice but not do anything. I opted to attempt to get get the wheel, less one spoke, true enough to get to the Waterfront... Following advice from the bent guy I was able to get the wheel relatively true and rode as far as the Waterfront with the guy. I can only assume he made it to the Point but at the very least he had options. I had wanted to understand wheels prior to that but had to figure it out after that experience and am glad I did.
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Old 03-18-17, 07:25 AM   #63
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...another guy on a recumbent rolled up and was willing to give advice but not do anything....
What the heck? Is it our litigious society, do you think?

Good for you for getting the work done.
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