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Old 03-20-17, 08:27 AM   #1
Maxe
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Build help

I'm looking for some help/advice for a build I want to undertake. I'm looking to build a touring bike and want to use a triple crankset, and STI brake levers and shifters. I have read a lot and every time I think I have found a solution I read somewhere else it may not work. My idea is to base it on a shimano drive train. 105 levers/shifters (10spd), I want a triple with chainring sizes that make sense, pretty much ruling out the 105 triple crank. My thoughts are something like the sugino XD 500. I read that you can get a shimano 9spd deore rear derailleur to work with 10spd shifters. Recently I have read that the triple 105 front derailleur will only work with a 105 crank and chain rings, and switching to a smooth (say cycle cross) front derailleur won't work.... Is there a solution that works? At this point I'm open to any groupset that will work, but really want STI shifters. Thanks in advance.
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Old 03-20-17, 04:52 PM   #2
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Your plan sounds fine. I bet the 105 FD with the Sugino triple crank will work. Might be a little slower going to bigger rings but it'll still work well enough for touring performance.
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Old 03-20-17, 05:35 PM   #3
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Are you set on a 10 spd drive train? A nice combination that we have put on 4 bikes is a Tiagra 9 spd FD 4503, DX 500 (different than the XD 500-22/32/44, and no longer produced, but your XD 500 will probably work), and a LX or XT RD.

With the DX 500, a true MTN crankset, a 103mm bottom bracket was needed to pull in the chainline for a road FD. The Tiagra is one of the most versatile FDs going. It looks like the XD 500 will accommodate a road derailleur with a slightly shorter BB. It will shift flawlessly with STI shifters.


Last edited by Doug64; 03-20-17 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 03-20-17, 07:07 PM   #4
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I know that 105 5800 shifters need to be mated to 5800 series derailleurs only. This is due to the cable pull the 5800 uses compared to 5700.

Its news to me though that 5700 10sp 105 front derailleurs will only work with 105 cranksets. Thats...odd.

Couldnt you just get a 105 triple and swap the chainrings as needed to get the gearing you want? The granny ring is a 74bcd on the older 5 arm 105 10speed cranks. Youold get a 26t ring for it instead of the stock 30t.


Back to 105 derailleurs only working with 105 cranks...that cant poasibly be correct as i know of 4 bikes off the top of my head from riding buddies which use FSA cranks.
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Old 03-20-17, 08:31 PM   #5
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This is where I read about the incompatibility of 5700 front D with other cranks. Obviously I don't know this first hand, hence the post
Add http. I can't add a link as I don't have enough posts yet to do that
janheine.wordpress.com/2013/03/25/trouble-with-sti-triples/
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Old 03-20-17, 09:58 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxe View Post
This is where I read about the incompatibility of 5700 front D with other cranks. Obviously I don't know this first hand, hence the post
Add http. I can't add a link as I don't have enough posts yet to do that
janheine.wordpress.com/2013/03/25/trouble-with-sti-triples/
Thanks for posting that link. Rather informative.
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Old 03-21-17, 01:27 AM   #7
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I can confirm that Deore 9sp RD works with 5700 10speed STI lever.

Also, you can use Shimano MTB front derailleur with STI lever.
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Old 03-21-17, 03:08 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by linus View Post
I can confirm that Deore 9sp RD works with 5700 10speed STI lever.

Also, you can use Shimano MTB front derailleur with STI lever.
It may work, but I'm guessing it's not the buttery-shifting of the matched group-set. STI shifters are rather finely made, tightly spec'd, and optimized to work in conjunction with their matching derailleurs. If you're adamant about STI I'd stick with matching levers and derailleurs, especially for a new build.

Last edited by BigAura; 03-21-17 at 03:22 AM.
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Old 03-21-17, 06:49 AM   #9
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Others will help you with your compatibility question, but I'll ask you another question: what frame are you building this on?

If you're NOT adamant about STI, then going the bar-end or downtube shifter route will save you money and potentially eliminate a lot of these drivetrain compatibility issues. I'd recommend doing a price comparison between an STI build and a bar-end shifter build, and then look at what that extra money could go into (a better frame maybe?).

You can always upgrade to STI's a couple years later if you absolutely hate bar-ends...but you may end up really liking them.
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Old 03-21-17, 07:08 AM   #10
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Maxe, The most commonly preferred combination used for STI road levers is what @Doug64 has posted above. The Tiagra 9S group's FD works so well because the arc of the FD's cage more closely follows the smaller chain rings used on most touring rigs, the 5703 FD should work just as well. Depending on how much chain slack you expect to have, the 9S mountain bike RD could be the better choice, and would be my first choice FWIW.

While the ramps and pins on Shimano chain rings do assist shifting, they aren't, in practice, a requirement. Standard chain rings will work fine the great majority of the time, the Shimano does up shift more reliably under heavy torque IME.

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Old 03-21-17, 12:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxe View Post
This is where I read about the incompatibility of 5700 front D with other cranks. Obviously I don't know this first hand, hence the post
Add http. I can't add a link as I don't have enough posts yet to do that
janheine.wordpress.com/2013/03/25/trouble-with-sti-triples/
What gearing do you want in the end? What would be the tooth count of your 3 rings and what would the cassette range be?

Jan Heine has forgotten more than I will ever know about cycling, but I disagree with only Shimano chainrings can be used with a Shimano front derailleur on triples. He is, in the end, running a business. That article ends with a well worded plug for how his products dont fall victim to the typical road triple issue of poor chainring selection. Not saying he shouldnt be trusted as he has a lot of data to back up conclusions he writes about(especially when it comes to wider tires, which again he sells), just that perhaps he is sticking to the official stated limitations when actual use shows the limitations arent accurate.
Bianchi Volpe (2014) Specs This isa 2014 Bianchi Volpe with an FSA Vero triple mated to 10sp Tiagra drivetrain.
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Old 03-21-17, 01:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAura View Post
It may work, but I'm guessing it's not the buttery-shifting of the matched group-set. STI shifters are rather finely made, tightly spec'd, and optimized to work in conjunction with their matching derailleurs. If you're adamant about STI I'd stick with matching levers and derailleurs, especially for a new build.
I have 5703 brifters coupled with a 9 speed XT M772 RD on an AWOL and it shifts every bit as good and maybe a little better than the X0 Rear Derailleur with Doubletaps on the Vaya. Been running the setup for over 2 years now... As for a mountain front triple, I never did get it setup satisfactorily but have a few new ideas but the daughter likes the 5703 triple on the front so I'm leaving it be.

The thoughts for the front triple setup are as follows, shim the mountain triple chainline using shimano road bike instructions, not the mountain. Or use a braze on derailleur couple with an Sram wide spacing adapter.

SRAM Wide Spacing Braze-On Adapter > Components > Drivetrain > Front Derailleur Parts | Jenson USA

or both

To compensate for the chainline differences between mountain and road triples...

To reiterate, the rear derailleur will work like a champ for sure. The front setup is pure speculation on my part as I run a road triple on my bike.
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Old 03-21-17, 03:26 PM   #13
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Another good FD option for smaller rings is the IRD Alpina D. It's specified for triples, 50t and smaller.

Here it is for a good price:
Interloc Alpina Front Derailleur - Outside Outfitters
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Old 03-21-17, 05:31 PM   #14
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[QUOTE=Tim_Iowa;19457943]Another good FD option for smaller rings is the IRD Alpina D. It's specified for triples, 50t and smaller.

Here it is for a good price

This is exactly what I'm now considering. I can't stand the bar end shifters. The cable routing is stupid and ugly. I'm. It really looking at a mtn tripple but a road/touring tripple. The shimano 105 tripple has really stupid chainring sizes for touring and a mountain is not a whole lot better in my opinion.
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Old 03-21-17, 07:27 PM   #15
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[QUOTE=Maxe;19458210]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim_Iowa View Post
Another good FD option for smaller rings is the IRD Alpina D. It's specified for triples, 50t and smaller.

Here it is for a good price

This is exactly what I'm now considering. I can't stand the bar end shifters. The cable routing is stupid and ugly. I'm. It really looking at a mtn tripple but a road/touring tripple. The shimano 105 tripple has really stupid chainring sizes for touring and a mountain is not a whole lot better in my opinion.
Another option I kicked around to lower gearing though still not as much as a lower mountain triple...

A Praxis 10 speed wide range cassette, https://www.praxiscycles.com/product/cassette/

coupled with the road triple. Sunrace makes a lower cost copy but a google search turns up people having issues with it.

As it is my daughter is young and fit and the 105 front triple coupled with an 11-36 rear cassette is perfect for her.
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Old 03-22-17, 05:21 AM   #16
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[QUOTE=Maxe;19458210]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim_Iowa View Post
...The shimano 105 tripple has really stupid chainring sizes for touring and a mountain is not a whole lot better in my opinion.
The most often recommended gearing range for an expedition level touring bike is 20-100 gear inches. Once in that range, and with some experience, the range can be adjusted to suit personal preferences.

Brad
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Old 03-22-17, 07:31 AM   #17
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[QUOTE=Maxe;19458210]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim_Iowa View Post
I'm. It really looking at a mtn tripple but a road/touring tripple. The shimano 105 tripple has really stupid chainring sizes for touring and a mountain is not a whole lot better in my opinion.
50/39/30 cranks aren't too bad. You can get pretty low gearing if you use a MTB RD and cassette (like 11-34 or 11-36). You can usually swap out the granny ring for a 28 or 26 to get an even lower bottom end. Unfortunately, some of the most modern Shimano road triples no longer allow this, because the granny isn't mounted to a standard 74 BCD pattern.

But I think a slightly smaller crank is even better for touring gear ranges.

My '88 Schwinn KOM tourer is using its original 48/36/26 XT M730 triple, and that gives a great gear range (20 - 113 gear inches).

I'm currently building up a road bike for a friend who wants to ride his first RAGBRAI this year. I'm using a very light road racing frame that I had hanging on a hook, but I'm using a Deore M550 triple with 48/38/28 rings to give him a wide and low range (26 - 106 GI).
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Old 03-22-17, 01:09 PM   #18
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[QUOTE=Maxe;19458210]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim_Iowa View Post
Another good FD option for smaller rings is the IRD Alpina D. It's specified for triples, 50t and smaller.

Here it is for a good price

This is exactly what I'm now considering. I can't stand the bar end shifters. The cable routing is stupid and ugly. I'm. It really looking at a mtn tripple but a road/touring tripple. The shimano 105 tripple has really stupid chainring sizes for touring and a mountain is not a whole lot better in my opinion.
Look at the mt 9 sp tripples with a 64/104 bcd chainrings. Have them on 4 bikes. low 22-24-26. Middle chain rings of 32-34-36, Big rings can be 40,42,44,46,48, works well for me. Usually I go with 22,34,46 and use a 12-34 cassette. What chainring sizes were you looking at?
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