Pushing too hard
05-27-17, 01:45 PM
#51
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05-27-17, 08:14 PM
#53
Macro Geek
You pushed yourself way too hard. The excitement at the start of a bike tour can do that... I have overdone it, as well, with bad results.
As much as I try to take it easy during the early days of a bike trip, I don't always succeed. In one case, my legs became so weak by Day 3 that I was forced to walk my bike up even gentle hills (and I was in the Alps, and not used to the rarefied air). By Day 4, I was done. My legs refused to cooperate. So I checked into a hotel and rested for a week, at which point I was ready to press on... but more cautiously and more respectfully of my physical limits.
My goal is to stop before I am overly tired for the first several days of a tour. Generally, that means cycling three or four hours the first day, four or five hours on Day 2, and thereafter, six hours per day (or more if I am up to it.)
I also take a rest day every three to five days.
When touring at high altitude, I try to take it even more slowly. I have learned the hard way that it takes time for the body to acclimatize to the thinner air.
As much as I try to take it easy during the early days of a bike trip, I don't always succeed. In one case, my legs became so weak by Day 3 that I was forced to walk my bike up even gentle hills (and I was in the Alps, and not used to the rarefied air). By Day 4, I was done. My legs refused to cooperate. So I checked into a hotel and rested for a week, at which point I was ready to press on... but more cautiously and more respectfully of my physical limits.
My goal is to stop before I am overly tired for the first several days of a tour. Generally, that means cycling three or four hours the first day, four or five hours on Day 2, and thereafter, six hours per day (or more if I am up to it.)
I also take a rest day every three to five days.
When touring at high altitude, I try to take it even more slowly. I have learned the hard way that it takes time for the body to acclimatize to the thinner air.
Last edited by acantor; 05-27-17 at 09:46 PM.
05-27-17, 08:25 PM
#54
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Several possible causes of knee fatigue incl wrong footwear or cleat position. Ironically I have less knee problems with advancing age but perhaps younger/stronger quads put more stress on the knees?
05-28-17, 02:19 PM
#55
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I just completed a 220 mile 3 day gravel trip with about 15 pounds of gear. After the first day of 90 miles my knees were killing me. Felt ok off the bike but any pressure on the down stroke sitting or standing and felt it on the front upper knee mostly. I was averaging close to 15 mph and did the first day 90 in a total of 7 hours including breaks. On day 2 and 3 I forced my pace down to about 12-14 and managed through the pain. At the end of the 3rd day (which was 80 miles and a +2000 ft climb) I was useless with no hope of going on. This was my first ever "long" ride. I've been riding 20-40 miles at a time 4-5 days a week for at least a year before this. I thought my bike is setup correctly but... I did tweak some after the first day like move the seat up and back a little to try to compensate.
Did I just try to do too much too fast and my body is not used to that? I wish I would have stayed at 10-11mph max which I easily had the schedule for.
Did I just try to do too much too fast and my body is not used to that? I wish I would have stayed at 10-11mph max which I easily had the schedule for.
Anytime you exceed your base level of exertion you have to incorporate a recovery period. Whether that's reduced effort or reduced miles in the recovery day or days.
05-28-17, 02:34 PM
#57
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This exactly. I can roll easily at 15 mph for miles on end on relative level path (except for my knees obviously) and that appears to be where I naturally end up and enjoy riding. I don't feel like I am "racing" or pushing anything, it is comfortable mentally and physically. Every time I force myself to slow down, I ended up right back at 15 over and over. I listen to my body but my knees don't say anything until it's too late which throws off my judgment. What does slow me down now are things that provide immediate feedback like overall lack of energy, legs burning, high HR (I seem comfortable maintaining 130-140) but unless there is a hill or I didn't eat right, those usually don't happen. I'll have to learn and get used to a sustainable touring mode and I now know me knees ARE my limit. On this last trip I tried hanging far enough behind people without being obvious I was pacing with them but eventually zoned out and got too close and it was awkward.
05-29-17, 11:34 AM
#58
Full Member
I can attest to the truth of that statement. Damaged knees just "don't go away" you can be stuck with knee pain for years, just ask some of the older riders here about dumn-ass mistakes made in thier early riding years.
05-29-17, 01:55 PM
#59
Senior Member
and I'm in that dumb-ass club.
probably one of the reasons I write lengthly blah blah stuff on here sometimes about gearing and whatnot, hoping folks can avoid knee issues and or just enjoying bicycling touring more.
05-31-17, 09:44 PM
#60
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It's pretty simple, if you're conditioned to 20-40 mile rides you'll do fine doing 20-40 mile rides at the same pace. If you increase hp output on your 20-40 mile rides you'll need a recovery period, day or days. If you increase your mileage from 20-40miles a day to 40-80miles you'll need a recovery period, day or days. So you just increased your mileage tremendously, damaged your connective tissue or joints, gave yourself no recovery time and went out and exceeded your normal distance for the next two days. Next time if you want to feel at ease doing multiple 75 mile days, have multiple 75 mile days as a base to go from. In other words you've already done a couple 3 day 75m/ day over the last few months where you recovered from the effort.
Anytime you exceed your base level of exertion you have to incorporate a recovery period. Whether that's reduced effort or reduced miles in the recovery day or days.
Anytime you exceed your base level of exertion you have to incorporate a recovery period. Whether that's reduced effort or reduced miles in the recovery day or days.
05-31-17, 10:27 PM
#61
Senior Member
And then there is simply doing too much and knees crying uncle!
06-01-17, 11:03 PM
#62
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I've read that riders (even pros) with knee pain can sometimes benefit from moving foot a bit forward on the pedals. Less torque on ankles & knees. Cleats can also help knees with less effort to keep foot placed correctly.
06-02-17, 05:01 AM
#63
Senior Member
+1
You didn't build up your endurance is how I see it. I give you credit, you can knock out 20-40 miles but 90 mile days in the saddle is way different. You have to build up for that. Before I did a double century, I made sure I could handle 100-125 miles with ease. Anyway, next time, just build up to it and you'll be ok.
You didn't build up your endurance is how I see it. I give you credit, you can knock out 20-40 miles but 90 mile days in the saddle is way different. You have to build up for that. Before I did a double century, I made sure I could handle 100-125 miles with ease. Anyway, next time, just build up to it and you'll be ok.
06-06-17, 08:06 PM
#64
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My advice is to take longer tours. By the second week you will have forgotten how stupid you were in week 1, and your body will have either acclimated to the extra exercise or you will have hurt yourself so bad you have returned home to think of how stupid you were in week 1.
06-07-17, 04:40 AM
#65
Senior Member
I find that, for me at least, it is best to start out doing mileage that isn't overly aggressive at the start of a tour unless you have really trained up to the level of daily effort you will do on tour. I consider needing a day off to mean that I pushed too hard leading up to that point. I also find that taking an easy day is better than taking a full rest day. I find it better for recovery to ride at least a little every day.
I save the days off for places where there is something I want to do that takes a while. For me that usually means hiking, whitewater rafting, or some other form of active entertainment. Even then I tend to still ride some even on those days.
YMMV, but that has worked very well for me.
06-07-17, 10:04 PM
#66
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+1
You didn't build up your endurance is how I see it. I give you credit, you can knock out 20-40 miles but 90 mile days in the saddle is way different. You have to build up for that. Before I did a double century, I made sure I could handle 100-125 miles with ease. Anyway, next time, just build up to it and you'll be ok.
You didn't build up your endurance is how I see it. I give you credit, you can knock out 20-40 miles but 90 mile days in the saddle is way different. You have to build up for that. Before I did a double century, I made sure I could handle 100-125 miles with ease. Anyway, next time, just build up to it and you'll be ok.
05-29-18, 04:09 PM
#67
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Old thread but figured I would follow up anyway....After my knee issues last year, I couldn't let it go and want to do what I could to make this years trip better.
I did another 5 day GAP/C&O this year. Averaged roughly 70 miles per day and longest was 79. I put on about 10# since last year and I had about 10 more pounds of gear with me than last year. I had no problems this year!!! I feel physically I could have gone another couple of days if I had too but mentally, probably not, the ever changing but yet constant boring trail was taking it's toll
I took advice from this thread and a few others so what changed from last years trip? My 3x a week workout rides gradually increased to about 40 miles each from my previous ~ 25 mile average, my average speed on those workout rides increased, I went from 170 to 165 cranks, my average cadence is much higher (roughly 90-95 now, no sensor before to reference but it was much lower), swapped to some low drop flared bars, went clipless (I have dual pedals and often ran unclipped on this trip because of the slick mud), and made every effort to get off the bike every 30 minutes even if it was only for a quick reset break. Not sure what if any role any of those had but in the end after making those changes over the last year.... It was a perfect pain free trip and I felt great. I still get an occasional knee "pain" or what feels like a tightness but it also happens at random even when I haven't been riding for a few days and usually is gone the next morning. There is still something there but so far manageable.
Useless statistic: 5 day ~360 miles was 130K crank revolutions if you trust cadence sensors.
I did another 5 day GAP/C&O this year. Averaged roughly 70 miles per day and longest was 79. I put on about 10# since last year and I had about 10 more pounds of gear with me than last year. I had no problems this year!!! I feel physically I could have gone another couple of days if I had too but mentally, probably not, the ever changing but yet constant boring trail was taking it's toll
I took advice from this thread and a few others so what changed from last years trip? My 3x a week workout rides gradually increased to about 40 miles each from my previous ~ 25 mile average, my average speed on those workout rides increased, I went from 170 to 165 cranks, my average cadence is much higher (roughly 90-95 now, no sensor before to reference but it was much lower), swapped to some low drop flared bars, went clipless (I have dual pedals and often ran unclipped on this trip because of the slick mud), and made every effort to get off the bike every 30 minutes even if it was only for a quick reset break. Not sure what if any role any of those had but in the end after making those changes over the last year.... It was a perfect pain free trip and I felt great. I still get an occasional knee "pain" or what feels like a tightness but it also happens at random even when I haven't been riding for a few days and usually is gone the next morning. There is still something there but so far manageable.
Useless statistic: 5 day ~360 miles was 130K crank revolutions if you trust cadence sensors.
Last edited by u235; 06-04-18 at 10:37 AM.
05-30-18, 07:39 AM
#68
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I had the knee problem. Really bad. But it happened after a few weeks of touring. A (really) hot shower really helped for whatever reason, Maybe it was because it increased blood circulation? Now I put my seat higher so that my knee doesn't have to bend as much. Seems to help.
Last edited by roseml; 05-30-18 at 07:44 AM.
05-30-18, 10:07 AM
#69
Banned
Touring speed is a very low priority... time in the saddle, even at under 10 mph you get quite a ways in a month.
05-30-18, 11:41 AM
#70
Full Member
And what did you actually see on the ride?
05-30-18, 12:52 PM
#71
Senior Member
I run 29er plus tires so I don't go so fast. I'm also on vacay, so there's that. I like to pace myself and spin, 6,.8,10 hrs days sometimes. Double breakfast and eating lots of food means lots of short breaks. Yoga and stretching in the AM helps too.
05-30-18, 12:55 PM
#72
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Old thread but figured I would follow up anyway....After my knee issues last year, I couldn't let it go and want to do what I could to make this years trip better.
I did another 5 day GAP/C&O this year. Averaged roughly 70 miles per day and longest was 79. I put on about 10# since last year and I had about 10 more pounds of gear with me than last year. I had no problems this year!!! I feel physically I could have gone another couple of days if I had too but mentally, probably not, the ever changing but yet constant boring trail was taking it's toll
I took advice from this thread and a few others so what changed from last years trip? My 3x a week workout rides gradually increased to about 40 miles each from my previous ~ 25 mile average, my average speed on those workout rides increased, I went from 170 to 165 cranks, my average cadence is much higher (roughly 90-95 now, no sensor before to reference but it was much lower), swapped to some low drop flared bars, went clipless (I have dual pedals and often ran unclipped on this trip because of the slick mud), and made every effort to get off the bike every 30 minutes even if it was only for a quick reset break. Not sure what if any role any of those had but in the end after making those changes over the last year.... It was a perfect pain free trip and I felt great. I still get an occasional knee "pain" or what feels like a tightness but it also happens at random even when I haven't been riding for a few days and usually is gone the next morning. There is still something there but so far manageable.
Useless statistic: 5 day ~360 miles was 130K crank revolutions if you trust cadence sensors.
I did another 5 day GAP/C&O this year. Averaged roughly 70 miles per day and longest was 79. I put on about 10# since last year and I had about 10 more pounds of gear with me than last year. I had no problems this year!!! I feel physically I could have gone another couple of days if I had too but mentally, probably not, the ever changing but yet constant boring trail was taking it's toll
I took advice from this thread and a few others so what changed from last years trip? My 3x a week workout rides gradually increased to about 40 miles each from my previous ~ 25 mile average, my average speed on those workout rides increased, I went from 170 to 165 cranks, my average cadence is much higher (roughly 90-95 now, no sensor before to reference but it was much lower), swapped to some low drop flared bars, went clipless (I have dual pedals and often ran unclipped on this trip because of the slick mud), and made every effort to get off the bike every 30 minutes even if it was only for a quick reset break. Not sure what if any role any of those had but in the end after making those changes over the last year.... It was a perfect pain free trip and I felt great. I still get an occasional knee "pain" or what feels like a tightness but it also happens at random even when I haven't been riding for a few days and usually is gone the next morning. There is still something there but so far manageable.
Useless statistic: 5 day ~360 miles was 130K crank revolutions if you trust cadence sensors.
05-30-18, 01:09 PM
#73
Banned
06-04-18, 06:36 AM
#74
Senior Member
Just another to chime in and maybe reenforce to take it a little easier next time. That’s a Long day with a high average speed for much more than the 30mi you’re used to. Honestly, I think even for 30mi that’s pretty quick on gravel compared to a lot of riders. Maybe check out the gravel riding sub-forum here. And compare with the majority, not the random people who are natural crazy riders. I think days two and three probably suffered more due to riding with your injury on the first day. Slow it down to a more relaxed 12mph or so, bring the milage down a little(50-75mi depending on if you’re an average person or one of those naturallly gifted high milage riders), and see how that goes. If you don’t already know this - Don’t be pushing on the pedals too hard. Use your mechanical advantage and spin, not power through. That’s why we have gears. Personally, I put down a bit over 180mi on pavement this week. I wouldn’t push 90mi at 15mph in a day even on pavement. I have a friend who likes to do occational centuries for fun, but he’s Definitely in the minority. Take it easy on your joints. You’ll appreciate it when you’re old.
06-04-18, 09:44 PM
#75
Senior Member
Thread Starter
On the GAP and C&O? Not much different too see really. The Gap offers some variation and views or various terrain, the C&O has an occasional historical point of interest on the trail or nearby, both have unique bridges and tunnels. Mainly I saw the below for days. Don't get me wrong, I love the trip and will do it again but not for the view or interaction. You don't really even see many people. Not seeing anyone for 20+ miles is normal in some parts.
Last edited by u235; 06-04-18 at 09:51 PM.