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Serious touring; which tour bike would you get.

Old 07-15-05, 10:23 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by womble
I'd look carefully into the S&S couplers that some of the custom makers offer- they could make travelling so much easier.
Yes.
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Old 07-16-05, 05:29 AM
  #27  
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I just visited the Litespeed website and I see that they do customs. I have no idea of the cost, but check out the worksheet that is intended to be the start of the design phase of you bike. If I was doing a custom tourer, this would be it for me.

https://www.litespeed.com/LitespeedCustomForm.pdf
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Old 07-16-05, 05:14 PM
  #28  
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If you are really looking for a srong, reliable workhorse which can be used for expedition work and needs minimal maintainence (no rear derr., single chainwheel.) and will last you a lifetime, then have a look at a Thorn Raven which has been specially designed to use a Rhollof hub. This bike will do it all.https://www.sjscycles.com/
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Old 07-16-05, 07:05 PM
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Hi,
call Waterford. They make one of the toughest touring frames
available. But they have so many choices and options you can pretty much have them build exactly what you want.
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Old 07-16-05, 10:05 PM
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Some of you are forgetting one thing about touring...you don't want a bike with odd ball parts that will take days to have sent to Bumjack Egypt to get fixed while you wait around in someplace you have no desire to wait in! And odd ball tire sizes or rims like the Bike Friday or the hub like the Rhollof should it fail will just raise eyebrows by the local yokos who won't have a clue as to what the heck it is or what to do about it! They'll probably recommend rebuilding the wheel with a standard freewheel and standard rear derailleur! There goes your expensive Rhollof hub...in the trash! A hub like that is only ok if your going to be touring someplace like Los Angeles.

This is why Rivendell, Beckman Designs and maybe Gordan and Waterford use simple components that are very reliable, easy to repair even by the handicap, and are replaceable with universal parts any where in the world; combine that along with simplicity of steel that can be easily repaired by a local welder without expensive welding equipment that can weld on Aluminum or Titanium, because a lot of small out of the way places don't do specialize welding on other materials nor can they afford the cost of those welders.
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Old 07-17-05, 02:22 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by froze
Some of you are forgetting one thing about touring...you don't want a bike with odd ball parts that will take days to have sent to Bumjack Egypt to get fixed while you wait around in someplace you have no desire to wait in! And odd ball tire sizes or rims like the Bike Friday or the hub like the Rhollof should it fail will just raise eyebrows by the local yokos who won't have a clue as to what the heck it is or what to do about it! They'll probably recommend rebuilding the wheel with a standard freewheel and standard rear derailleur! There goes your expensive Rhollof hub...in the trash! A hub like that is only ok if your going to be touring someplace like Los Angeles.

This is why Rivendell, Beckman Designs and maybe Gordan and Waterford use simple components that are very reliable, easy to repair even by the handicap, and are replaceable with universal parts any where in the world; combine that along with simplicity of steel that can be easily repaired by a local welder without expensive welding equipment that can weld on Aluminum or Titanium, because a lot of small out of the way places don't do specialize welding on other materials nor can they afford the cost of those welders.
There are no such things as "universal parts anywhere in the world". If you're seriously far off the beaten track, then replacing or reparing 'standard' components isn't going to be easy either. You can't get Shimano derailleurs in rural China, or 26" rims in Lao or much of Africa. Even finding decent 26" touring tyres is so difficult in much of South America that my touring buddies had them posted from the US.

So IMO it's really better to get something that is much less likely to fail in the first place. I think the idea of an *entire* bike being designed field serviceable anywhere is a bit of a marketing myth.
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Old 07-17-05, 02:13 PM
  #32  
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I disagree to some of what you said; sure if your in China you may have trouble getting Shimano or other parts BUT your going to have a better time at least getting it fixed then you would a Rhollof hub. And internationally the most commom tire and tube size is the 700c and 26 rather then the 20 or 16 inch tire Bike Friday uses. And if you reduce the complexity of the operating system your more then likely are going to able to fix it yourself or find someone who can. Evidently Phil Woods disagrees with your statement about something being "field serviceable" because his hubs and bottom brackets are designed to be just that " field serviceable", and why? Because he sells a lot of these components to the touring crowd.
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Old 07-19-05, 08:12 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by froze
Some of you are forgetting one thing about touring...you don't want a bike with odd ball parts that will take days to have sent to Bumjack Egypt to get fixed while you wait around in someplace you have no desire to wait in! And odd ball tire sizes or rims like the Bike Friday or the hub like the Rhollof should it fail will just raise eyebrows by the local yokos who won't have a clue as to what the heck it is or what to do about it! They'll probably recommend rebuilding the wheel with a standard freewheel and standard rear derailleur! There goes your expensive Rhollof hub...in the trash! A hub like that is only ok if your going to be touring someplace like Los Angeles.

This is why Rivendell, Beckman Designs and maybe Gordan and Waterford use simple components that are very reliable, easy to repair even by the handicap, and are replaceable with universal parts any where in the world; combine that along with simplicity of steel that can be easily repaired by a local welder without expensive welding equipment that can weld on Aluminum or Titanium, because a lot of small out of the way places don't do specialize welding on other materials nor can they afford the cost of those welders.
Thanks, I'll make sure and pass your comments on the practicality of the Rhollof hub to my expedition cycling friends in the UK who have used it in expeditions in the foothills of North India and in the more remote regions of China for many thousands of miles without a problem. That said , they haven't tried it in Los Angeles.
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Old 07-19-05, 09:26 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by onbike 1939
Thanks, I'll make sure and pass your comments on the practicality of the Rhollof hub to my expedition cycling friends in the UK who have used it in expeditions in the foothills of North India and in the more remote regions of China for many thousands of miles without a problem. That said , they haven't tried it in Los Angeles.
Agreed.

I can't remember reading any postings at all where Bike Firday owners had their tour cancelled because they could not get parts or frame failure. Friday owners have toured all over the world without any problems because these are solid bikes and the smaller wheel is actually stronger than one with 700 cc. There are problems the Bike Friday has regarding touring (rougher ride, smaller wheelbase) but component failure is not one of them.
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Old 07-20-05, 12:52 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by froze
I disagree to some of what you said; sure if your in China you may have trouble getting Shimano or other parts BUT your going to have a better time at least getting it fixed then you would a Rhollof hub. And internationally the most commom tire and tube size is the 700c and 26 rather then the 20 or 16 inch tire Bike Friday uses. And if you reduce the complexity of the operating system your more then likely are going to able to fix it yourself or find someone who can. Evidently Phil Woods disagrees with your statement about something being "field serviceable" because his hubs and bottom brackets are designed to be just that " field serviceable", and why? Because he sells a lot of these components to the touring crowd.
I'd have to disagree with your disagreement

Finding 700 and 26 tyres isn't hard... but that doesn't mean that finding good touring tyres in those sizes is possible in a lot of places. It's easier in some cases just to order something in for a pickup at a post office down the road than to find something locally. Whether that something is 700, 26 or 20 doesn't make any difference. And I'm assuming that it would be pretty unusual to need a tyre urgently as a spare is mandatory for touring in unusual places.

Phil Woods hubs? I think the argument for something like that it's high quality and highly unlikely to require servicing in the first place. Which is the argument that I'd accept for a Rohloff. Field serviceable? Sure, if you happen to be carry cone wrenches, hub grease and fresh hub bearings. Tourers don't usually carry this stuff, and you can't find it in the third world.

I think that this is a great example of marketing blurb being used to sell expensive kit to a crowd that can pay. For the cost of one of these hubs, it would be much cheaper to to have some spare Shimano LX hubs sitting at a friend's place ready for mailing.
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Old 07-20-05, 09:20 PM
  #36  
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Phil hubs will probably outlast you, and if a catastrophe happens and they don't?
You'll just have to deal with it.
People do the most amazing tours on the most improbable gear, a sense of adventure is much more important than which particularbike you are on.
Its a good idea to choose sturdy, serviceable equipment and put some thought into it, but don't obsess about it.
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Old 07-22-05, 12:52 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by late
Hi,
call Waterford. They make one of the toughest touring frames
available. But they have so many choices and options you can pretty much have them build exactly what you want.
I agree-I have one...

Also check out Bruce Gordon touring bikes (if his have not been suggested yet). His are bomber as well. If I hadn't gotten such a deal on my Waterford (I picked mine up used), I'd certainley have bought a Bruce Gordon.
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Old 07-22-05, 08:28 PM
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My argument was not based on nothing happening to your bike while touring...duh! And your all right, the likelyhood of something happening is next to nothing...BUT schit happens no matter how well something is made and it will happen in the most inconvenient places. And if you want to go touring on something that may present a problem should it break then more power to you and happy trails.

Sure you may not find "quality" touring tires in 700 or 26 sizes, but the point is you can find a tire, and when you don't have a tire some sort of tire is better then none! I have destroyed tires and I do carry a spare tire, and if you have never destroyed a tire then either your very lucky or don't ride as much as you want us to believe you do!

Phil Woods hubs and bottom brackets are bulletproof-BUT not impossible to break; and by field serviceable Phil also means they use a standard bearing size that is available anywhere in the world (or so they claim) instead of some size bearing that is only useful for that one product and only in very few countries.

Personally the sense of adventure for me is to go with stuff that I know is basic, easy to repair, and will work. I guess after owning many cars over the years and currently owning a couple of 21st century cars and one 67 car, and knowing that I can fix the 67 anywhere myself and it has less problems then the newer cars I've become quiet cynical of some modern technology. Whats really bizaar is that I am almost considering selling the newer cars and get nothing but 60 or early 70's era cars!

Now you all surely think I'm a freak!
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