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Old 07-13-05, 11:02 AM   #1
will dehne
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Pantour front wheel shocks, feedback please

My LBS recommends Pantour shock-absorber build into front wheel hub. This is after I complained about the overly harsh ride of my C'dale R2000.
I am training for a 3000 mile tour and expect poor road conditions.
Anyone with experience please advise. I have not made the change yet.
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Old 07-13-05, 12:06 PM   #2
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I think I've seen pictures of these hubs but I could not understand how in the world rim brakes would work with these.....
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Old 07-13-05, 01:46 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fixer
I think I've seen pictures of these hubs but I could not understand how in the world rim brakes would work with these.....
The device works with a spring loaded eccentric within the hub. The rim brakes stop the wheel directly. The mass of the rider and bike will act horizontally on the eccentric. The eccentric has only a 0.5" vertical movement. I think that that principle is OK.
My concern is reliability over a long trip. Does it squeak? Do the springs hold under constant vibration? Is it well proportioned for heavy shocks. General workmanship? My LBS says that it is great but I am checking with this Forum to be safer.

Of course, in the absence of this device, all the shocks go into my wrists and shoulder.
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Old 07-13-05, 02:02 PM   #4
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Have you considered suspension stems? I've never used either a suspension stem nor hub, but I'd be more comfortable switching stems rather than wheels if need be.
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Old 07-13-05, 02:05 PM   #5
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from http://www.gaerlan.com/bikeparts/parts/hubs/hubs.html

Quote:
PANTOUR SUSPENSION Front Hub. This is not a typo. The Pantour hub provides 10mm of travel built into the hub. The axle section floats on urethane springs. Includes 2 sets of urethanes categorized at 100 to 200 lbs (red) and 200 to 300 lbs. (blue). CNC machined from high grade aluminum. Comes in 28, 32 and 36 hole. We always stock 36 hole hubs in black. Quick release not included.

Requires rims with at least 12mm of braking surface. We suggest using thin line brake pads like the Koolstops making adjustments a lot easier.

FRHUBPANTOUR ---$134.95 (specify # of holes)
I see that they also have a rear hub version.

Steve
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Old 07-13-05, 07:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camel
Have you considered suspension stems? I've never used either a suspension stem nor hub, but I'd be more comfortable switching stems rather than wheels if need be.
Camel
Yes, we considered suspension hub. They are relatively heavy plus the SLIDING movement is subject to fine sand getting in on desert riding which we are going to do.

The suspension hubs are ROTATING members and can be sealed better. I have since been told that a RAAM winning member has used these things.
This does not mean that I believe everything I hear. I like this forum since so many people read it and someone is bound to know something.
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Old 07-13-05, 07:30 PM   #7
will dehne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentor58
from http://www.gaerlan.com/bikeparts/parts/hubs/hubs.html



I see that they also have a rear hub version.

Steve
Mentor 58
Thank you, this is more information I had. My LBS recommends front wheel only and is suggesting a special build wheel. I will forward your post to them in case they do not know this information.
I still like to hear from someone who has used this thing on a long trip (3000 miles)
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Old 07-14-05, 03:43 AM   #8
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What size tyres are you using on your 'dale, and what size frame is it?
Is the problem of harsh ride noticable at the bars or saddle?
Consider a different bar setup or a sprung saddle.
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Old 07-14-05, 01:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelW
What size tyres are you using on your 'dale, and what size frame is it?
Is the problem of harsh ride noticable at the bars or saddle?
Consider a different bar setup or a sprung saddle.
Michael
Tires are 700 x 25 Conti 120 PSI. I want to change to 700 x 28 by advise of tour leader. It is a 58 Aluminum frame with CF forks. The very harsh ride is bothersome in the bars to the point of fatigue over a full day of riding. My concern is high speed crash due to fatigue and sudden washboard road on new unknown roads. (3000 mile trip)! I have done the same riding with a Trek with front fork suspension. Much safer but the weight penalty is 8-10 lb. I should be more precise and that is a job I have to do. Right now I am getting quotes what all this costs. I can get a new CF bike for all the changes to the C'dale.
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Old 07-14-05, 02:35 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will dehne
Michael
Tires are 700 x 25 Conti 120 PSI. I want to change to 700 x 28 by advise of tour leader. It is a 58 Aluminum frame with CF forks. The very harsh ride is bothersome in the bars to the point of fatigue over a full day of riding. My concern is high speed crash due to fatigue and sudden washboard road on new unknown roads. (3000 mile trip)! I have done the same riding with a Trek with front fork suspension. Much safer but the weight penalty is 8-10 lb. I should be more precise and that is a job I have to do. Right now I am getting quotes what all this costs. I can get a new CF bike for all the changes to the C'dale.
A Brooks Champion Flyer with springs would be my solution. For this setup to work, you need to be fairly straight up but if a significant amount of weight is on your hands, I don't know if this hub will work since this is more of a fitting issue.
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Old 07-14-05, 03:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve
A Brooks Champion Flyer with springs would be my solution. For this setup to work, you need to be fairly straight up but if a significant amount of weight is on your hands, I don't know if this hub will work since this is more of a fitting issue.
Steve
My Trek 7700 has a Brooks Champion Flyer with springs and is very good. As you say, I sit quite straight up on that bike. This is the bike I use for multiple centuries on R to T in Wisconsin and Minnesota. It is very comfortable and I feel very safe.
Speed is the problem. I can do 10% faster on the C'dale. However, I have not all done what can be done to the Trek such as 28 tires, cut out some weight and perhaps use a straight fork to cut down weight..
I suspect that you are correct that the C'dale 58 frame makes me lean too much on my hands. I am 6ft 1.5" tall.
The same LBS who fitted me for this bike is now proposing this suspension hub as a fix. There is reasons to be suspicious.
I think to consult with another LBS.
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Old 07-14-05, 03:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will dehne
Steve
My Trek 7700 has a Brooks Champion Flyer with springs and is very good. As you say, I sit quite straight up on that bike. This is the bike I use for multiple centuries on R to T in Wisconsin and Minnesota. It is very comfortable and I feel very safe.
Speed is the problem. I can do 10% faster on the C'dale. However, I have not all done what can be done to the Trek such as 28 tires, cut out some weight and perhaps use a straight fork to cut down weight..
I suspect that you are correct that the C'dale 58 frame makes me lean too much on my hands. I am 6ft 1.5" tall.
The same LBS who fitted me for this bike is now proposing this suspension hub as a fix. There is reasons to be suspicious.
I think to consult with another LBS.
You probably went too agressive on the bars. I guess you might want to try spacers to get the bars up because if the your same amount of weight is on the bars, the slight suspension won't be of much use especially on poor roads. You have to find a way to sit up straighter.
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Old 07-14-05, 08:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve
You probably went too agressive on the bars. I guess you might want to try spacers to get the bars up because if the your same amount of weight is on the bars, the slight suspension won't be of much use especially on poor roads. You have to find a way to sit up straighter.
Thanks Steve:
I got more problems. The LBS wants $1500 to get the 700 x 28 wheels with the suspension plus the required triple gear crank. On top of that I am not sure that this works as you say above.
Another alternative is to retrofit the Trek Hybrid 7700. It has triple crank gears 38 tires and Brooks Champion Flyer saddle and front and rear suspension. I love the Shimano XT gear shifter.
I can get 700 x 28 wheels and perhaps a non suspension fork (to get the weight down). Plus drop down bars.
If all of that lets me do repeatable 100 miles in six hours, I will be happy.
What is your opinion?
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Old 07-14-05, 09:49 PM   #14
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since it's road vibration and/or position on the bike that's ailing you, I'd try 2 things before you go with the suspension stem or hub. first, as has been covered-get a higher rise stem. second-try the specialized (or other if you like) vibration damping bar tape. think they call it bar phat. maybe try the bontrager buzz kill vibration dampers too. all of those combined cost less than the wheel's going to run.
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Old 07-14-05, 10:14 PM   #15
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well from what I have read here most don't understand how the hub works. Its pretty simple and it uses a piece of elastomer as the shock. the hub does work fairly well and will smooth out road hum and small bumps. But thatís about it. it is like using a bigger fatter tire at low PSI while using a thinner tire at higher PSI. The only complaints I had about mine are is that it causes some shuddering while braking and you need to have someone adjust the brake pads while you sit on the bike. The brake pads can rub on the wheel when no one is on the bike.
As you can see in the pic this is the inside there is a second axle that fits in with a bar that rests on the elastomer. Not much to it really. My complaint was they shipped me the hub with no grease in the bearings when it locked up I sent it back they replaced them under warranty with bearing with no grease they rusted again and replaced them again with no grease. I finally got wise checked the bearings and greased them myself.
The concept works ok and it is not too heavy. But it is only for small bumps and it does make the ride nicer. Plus there is no power loss like in a regular suspension setup.
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Old 07-14-05, 10:55 PM   #16
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steveknight...... thanks for that photo, the working principle behind this hub is much clearer to me now. But as I suspected from months prior when I initially saw a photo of this hub, my initial reaction was how effective rim brakes will be using this system.
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Old 07-14-05, 11:34 PM   #17
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the wheel moves backwards not up and down. so braking is fine. but you do get some shuddering. all that means is it feels a bit wierd. I did not notice any power loss at all. the same thing happens with disc brakes.
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Old 07-15-05, 10:23 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the.me
since it's road vibration and/or position on the bike that's ailing you, I'd try 2 things before you go with the suspension stem or hub. first, as has been covered-get a higher rise stem. second-try the specialized (or other if you like) vibration damping bar tape. think they call it bar phat. maybe try the bontrager buzz kill vibration dampers too. all of those combined cost less than the wheel's going to run.
The.me:
I want to thank you for your advise and want you to know that I will follow your suggestions.
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Old 07-15-05, 10:26 AM   #19
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I neverr cared for the bar phat it did not seem to offer much. I used a strip of bar tape on the wosrt spot wrapped it then went over it again that worked pretty well. though I had to use some rubber cement to keep it from slipping.
the wheel would cost you 250.00 so it is nto a cheap route. but it does work for the road buzz very well and you get a bit more traction too.
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Old 07-15-05, 08:32 PM   #20
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Update to all of you who helped:
I got the Trek 7700 down to 28.8 lb., installed 28 mm tires 120 PSI. The Brooks saddle and telescoping stem is 3.0 lb. (overkill)! The front telescoping stem is still there.
I tested all this on an Illinois paved trail, flat, wind neutral. Very near 20 miles
in 1 hour.

Question to you experienced bikers: How critical are 8-10 lb. going up the Arizona Mountains?
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