FarHorizon

I've reached the point where I'd like to have a frame built. I know the featues I want:

Compact geometry (This is negotiable, but still my preference)
48 cm (minimum) length chain stays (maybe even 50!)
69.5 degree head tube angle
70 degree seat tube angle
Lugged steel construction
Long top tube in relation to seat tube to fit my physiology
Road caliper brakes (or discs) but not cantilevers or V's
Lots of fork rake
Long wheelbase
Low bottom bracket hanger

Now, the questions:

1. Does any manufacturer offer a stock frame that meets all criteria? (I don't know of any)
2. If custom is needed, who can y'all recommend that has good quality and reasonable prices?
3. Are frame kits offered that would allow me to "build it myself? (yes, I can braze, and have built frames before)
4. Is such a "traditional" touring frame unadvisable from any standpoint?

Thanks!

GeorgeBaby

Bob Beckman does 47.5cm stays (https://www.coinet.com/~beckman/bikeframes.html).

Definitely not inexpensive, and long lead times, but certainly a man known for ultimate touring frames.

waltergodefroot

This is not a traditional frame design, unless you consider traditional to mean road bikes built for dirt and cobbled roads, cause the above geometry was used on bikes designed for roads 100 yrs ago. This geometry was not uncommon on mountain bikes when they were first designed, but now it is a little passe'. You might still find it on work bikes sold in countries where the bike is a primary transport vehicle.

Be careful what you wish for. You may be over compensating on the comfort parameters because you're not comfortable on what you're riding now. Of course, if you plan on doing loaded touring from Hearst, Ontario to Johns Bay, this bike might work fine.

Traditional touring design is generally considered to be 72/72 or a little(maybe one degree) shallower, with up to 45cm chainstays, 2"-2 1/4" fork rake, and ~10.5" BB height. So your design is really over the top.

But of course, that doesn't mean it won't work and possibly work well for you.

NoReg

https://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html

With some build info.

That Sakkit stuff is very cool, and not all that bad price wise, if I read the listings correctly.

I wonder why all these guys who dis TIG, don't use lugs on their luggage racks.

Staceyfb

https://www.gaansari.com/home.htm

Gary has some damn sweet customs. check him out.

late

Waterford, and take their advice. You and I have something in common, we don't know how to design a bike.

FarHorizon

Yes, Walter, it is a very unusual design. I prefer the specs I quoted, though, because I owned (and very much liked) a similar bike back in the '70s. The roads in my area are very much like the cobbled stuff of 100 years ago - my state has the (well deserved) reputation for the worst roads in the country. I also sometimes ride dirt roads.

I've owned what you described as a "traditional touring" bike (72-72 with 44 stays). Even touring geometry can be brutal on the "craters of the moon" pavement and dirt roads that I ride. I'm currently running a hybrid bike with 700x37 tires and a sprung Brooks B-69 saddle. It is reasonably comfortable except for the frame geometry which is very good at transmitting road bumps to my hands (primarily).

The poster who thought that I didn't know how to design a bike is correct - but only if you assume normal road conditions. For what I do, the design I specify is exactly what I want, and is highly appropriate to my needs. I'm willing to pay for the frame I want, and if no builder wants to build to my specifications, I'm willing to buy a tubing set and build my own.

late

Sorry,
my bad. Those dimensions will create a sluggish bike that needs
as much room to turn as a car. Well, almost. But with your roads, I see your point.

af895

Don't know if these qualify (you'll have to look at their websites and/or email them) but they make good bikes:

https://www.vanillabicycles.com/
https://www.jonnycycles.com/
https://www.kirkframeworks.com/
https://www.antbikemike.com/
https://www.serotta.com/
https://www.gunnarbikes.com/

https://www.sevencycles.com/
https://www.ifbikes.com/

Before you look at either Seven or I.F., you should read this and make up your own mind: https://www.livejournal.com/community...=12&style=mine

excerpt: Paying more than a grand for anything less than top of the line steel means you are getting ripped off. Any builder can buy a reynolds 531 tube set for under a hundred bucks, only the truly gifted can sucker you into paying $1500 for it.

FarHorizon

No reason to apologize, late - You're completely correct about the bike being sluggish to steer and needing lots of room to turn. If quick handling is a priority, my design is a loser. On the other hand, if shock absorption (WITH light weight) are priorities, my design makes sense. The design I propose is superior to MTB designs because of simplicity (no additional suspension components) and because of lighter weight.

My design will also be "flexible" in terms of transmitting rider power to the wheel, but no so bad, again, as MTB designs (which are my realistic alternative).

I'm also beginning to wonder if my existing frame (which is nearly acceptable) could be retrofitted with a long-rake fork. If this could be done, I might get the shock absorption I want without having to go with a custom frame. Thoughts?

Cyclist0094

You mean a bike like this?

I built this one in 2003 and have about 4k miles on it now.Chainstay length is 49mm, angles are 71. seat/70 head/ 55mm rake. BB height is 10.5 with 26 x 1.5 tires. Tubing is a mixture of Reynolds 531 and True Temper RC2.

The longest tapered chainstay for use on a lugged frame currently is made by True Temper at 45 cm which will give you a maximum chainstay length of 49mm with most BB shells and verticle dropouts. I have seen them made longer using un tapered tubing but then you get into clearance problems with the rear mechanicals which often mean you may have to fabricate the dropouts.

If you can braze and have some metal fabrication knowledge along with a few good files , some measuring tools and a flat surface to keep everything straight.you can build a serviceable bike frame yourself. Here is a page of DIY framebuilding resources. https://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/framebuild.htm



Rick

FarHorizon

Thanks, Rick. AWESOME bike, by the way - Kudos for a neat looking job!