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Old 12-03-05, 06:44 PM   #1
paloewi
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Shifters

You mostly see tourers using bar end shifters, over integrated. I know this has do with index/friction, but how often do you actually need switch between index and friction shifting? When does this happen?

thanks in advance

Peter
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Old 12-03-05, 10:23 PM   #2
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it usually happens after your bike goes down and your indexing barcon doesn't index the derailluer so smooth anymore.

Last edited by Bekologist; 12-03-05 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 12-03-05, 10:45 PM   #3
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If one has a derailleur break (or get bashed) while on tour, ANY rear derailleur can be shifted in friction mode. This allows lots of latitude in replacements if the nearest shop doesn't have the make and model you had.
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Old 12-04-05, 12:52 AM   #4
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A few other reasons:

– The front shifter works in friction mode, which means it will work with non-standard cogs and that derailleur can be trimmed to avoid noises from chain rub.

– Mechanical "innards" don't break (because there are none).

– Easier to shift from the drops (where I ride), and doesn't really take much more time from the tops. We are not racing, after all.

– No conflict with a handlebar bag.

– No need for a "travel agent" on the brakes (if v-brakes are used),
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Old 12-04-05, 01:55 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michel Gagnon
A few other reasons:

– The front shifter works in friction mode, which means it will work with non-standard cogs and that derailleur can be trimmed to avoid noises from chain rub.

– Mechanical "innards" don't break (because there are none).

– Easier to shift from the drops (where I ride), and doesn't really take much more time from the tops. We are not racing, after all.

– No conflict with a handlebar bag.

– No need for a "travel agent" on the brakes (if v-brakes are used),
yep, the KISS principle ...
'Keep It Simple Stupid' ... which is good on tour
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Old 12-04-05, 09:52 AM   #6
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Most of these postings are pure theory. In fact you almost never need to use friction mode because your pannier pretty much protect your rear derailleur if the bike flops over while stopped and crashing a fully loaded bike is unusual.

Even if you screw up your rear derailleur exactly where in the world are you going to be where Shimano won't be the most common deraiileur?

I like and prefer the FEEL of bar end shifters and I can tell by the feel what gear I'm in. I can EASE the shift so that there isn't a loud CLACK when I shift. And as Michel Gagnon pointed out, if you have a handlebar bag (and what tourers don't?) combined shifters may not work properly though that's a bit of a stretch.

The real advantage is that they're less than half the price of a combined shifter, a whole lot less complicated and almost never fail. I've replaced about a half dozen failed Ultegra levers and a couple failed Campy levers though they were the lowest end stuff from a long time ago.
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Old 12-04-05, 10:22 AM   #7
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I'm glad some one made the point about bar end shifters being more affordable. Being a guy who usually orders from the right hand side of the menu, this is a big deal. Also, downtube shifters are simple, dependable, and affordable.
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Old 12-04-05, 10:41 AM   #8
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I don't know about the price... 9s bar-ends + Dia-Compe levers aren't that much cheaper than STI levers.
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Old 12-04-05, 02:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclintom
I've replaced about a half dozen failed Ultegra levers and a couple failed Campy levers though they were the lowest end stuff from a long time ago.
Half dozen failed Ultegra levers - so that means about 6. How many miles do you ride and why do you think you've had to replace so many? I don't get it because I have a 1999 Lemond Zurich road bike that now has about 23,000 miles on it and I still have the same Ultegra levers on there. They are a bit worn, but they still work great.
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Old 12-04-05, 03:09 PM   #10
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I've actually got an old set of barcons that I'm pretty sure won't shift the midrange in indexing becaused they've been used as 'skid plates' in several sliding crashes.
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Old 12-04-05, 07:45 PM   #11
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If you are running STI and whack the shifter you will have two systems go down, for instance, the rear brake and the rear derailleur. Sure lot's of LBS's will be stocked with Shimano but you still have to get there.

A touring bike is essentially a compromise but for my money simpicity and durability carry the day.
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Old 12-05-05, 04:56 AM   #12
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Wrecking a rear mech is a real possibility on a tour. It can get damaged on the flight or if you catch a branch in the chain.
I've wrecked one rear mech on my commuter bike: it didnt just wear out, it snapped in half.
There are plenty of places in the world where 9-speed Shimano is not available at the nearest bike store. You can pick up a steel SIS rear mechs anywhere and these work well enough to be on your way.
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Old 12-08-05, 02:48 PM   #13
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At the risk of seeming to be living in the past I have to say I prefer down-tube shifters over bar-ends. I have toured with bar-ends but still prefer the directness and (to me at least) the more natural position of the down-tubes. Again having come down hard with a loaded bike courtesy of tram-lines I've had the end of the bars rammed into my thigh...if it had been the pointed end of bar-ends I would have been in serious trouble. So, for me, I stick with Dura-Ace down-shifters..slick,direct and reliable.
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Old 12-08-05, 04:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onbike 1939
At the risk of seeming to be living in the past I have to say I prefer down-tube shifters over bar-ends. I have toured with bar-ends but still prefer the directness and (to me at least) the more natural position of the down-tubes. Again having come down hard with a loaded bike courtesy of tram-lines I've had the end of the bars rammed into my thigh...if it had been the pointed end of bar-ends I would have been in serious trouble. So, for me, I stick with Dura-Ace down-shifters..slick,direct and reliable.

I agree, I like downtube better then bar end.
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Old 12-09-05, 01:36 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick L
I don't know about the price... 9s bar-ends + Dia-Compe levers aren't that much cheaper than STI levers.
Oh yes they are. You can get the Diacompe levers for about $50 (www.speedgoat.com) and the bar end shifters for about $83 (www.performancebike.com). That is $135. Performance has Ultegra STI shifters on sale for $240. That's a big difference if you ask me.
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Old 12-09-05, 06:38 AM   #16
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Ultegra were 200$ when I checked, 180$ for 105 and 145$ for barends + Dia-Compe. Not quite twice as much.
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Old 12-09-05, 09:02 AM   #17
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Last night I just bought a set of NEW Dura Ace bar ends from a shop on Ebay for $50. I bought a set of Nashbar levers which are really nice for $15. They even include an extra set of hoods!

Nashbar who normally have the cheapest prices on normal Shimano stuff, lists 105 STI levers at $190.

But I choose barends because I PREFER the way they shift over the way that STI or Ergo shift. Of the last five bikes I've build, four of them have bar ends on them. And two of those are road bikes.

And NORMAL brake levers feel a great deal better under the hands than those fat combined shifter levers.
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Old 01-04-06, 10:23 PM   #18
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So can Dura-Ace indexed bar end shifters also be used in friction mode? How do you switch between the two modes?
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Old 01-04-06, 11:22 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by deadlytreddly
So can Dura-Ace indexed bar end shifters also be used in friction mode? How do you switch between the two modes?
Yes. The front is always friction. The rear has a small metal loop that can be folded out to grip and turn from the index to friction position.
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Old 01-04-06, 11:32 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick L
Ultegra were 200$ when I checked, 180$ for 105 and 145$ for barends + Dia-Compe. Not quite twice as much.
List for Ultegra 9 speed brifters is $323 from QBP.
List for Ultegra level SL-BS77 9 speed barcons is $83
List for Dia Compe 287-V is $76

That's almost exactly half. If you are running cantis, you can save a lot more on brake levers and actually have a choice.

Yes, there are deals to be had on brifters and they can be found for much cheaper, but there are also deals on barcons and levers.
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Old 01-05-06, 01:18 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onbike 1939
At the risk of seeming to be living in the past I have to say I prefer down-tube shifters over bar-ends. I have toured with bar-ends but still prefer the directness and (to me at least) the more natural position of the down-tubes. Again having come down hard with a loaded bike courtesy of tram-lines I've had the end of the bars rammed into my thigh...if it had been the pointed end of bar-ends I would have been in serious trouble. So, for me, I stick with Dura-Ace down-shifters..slick,direct and reliable.
I agree -- you're living in the past...
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Old 01-05-06, 05:51 AM   #22
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I agree -- you're living in the past...
Perhaps....but at my age that's where I belong and I prefer it.
Anyway...I don't see this as too antiquated.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...e/PICT0279.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...e/PICT0281.jpg

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Old 01-05-06, 06:21 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclintom
Last night I just bought a set of NEW Dura Ace bar ends from a shop on Ebay for $50. I bought a set of Nashbar levers which are really nice for $15. They even include an extra set of hoods!

Nashbar who normally have the cheapest prices on normal Shimano stuff, lists 105 STI levers at $190.

But I choose barends because I PREFER the way they shift over the way that STI or Ergo shift. Of the last five bikes I've build, four of them have bar ends on them. And two of those are road bikes.

And NORMAL brake levers feel a great deal better under the hands than those fat combined shifter levers.
These discussions on shifters crack me up! Cyclintom has the best reason for retro-shifters, he just likes them. This is a great answer, all the others are trying to convince themselves or maybe someone else that retro is "better" under the mystique of "The rigors of touring".

I got integrated shifters as soon as they were available and have never had a failure of any kind, never broke a cable and smashed them in wrecks and dropped bikes. The shifting is precise and your hands do not have to move to shift. (safer and faster and much easier to shift while standing) If I ever go to BFE China to tour, I will bring a back-up shifter from one of my other bikes. Worst case scenario is total failure of rear shifter and brake, lets say a plane comes down and crashes into the right side of my handlebar while out on a bike ride with some stuff (touring). I tie off the rear shifter cable in a middle to low gear, that leaves me with 3 gears and a front brake. I ride to the nearest phone, dial 1-800-nashbar and have one sent a day ahead of me. And if money is sooooo tight that I did not plan in $ contingency into my bike ride with some stuff than I'll just finish the tour with 3 gears, plenty of people tour on a single.

OK I'm done ranting now, sorry had to let it out, really I do love you Retrogrouch guys.
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Old 01-05-06, 07:44 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onbike 1939
Perhaps....but at my age that's where I belong and I prefer it.
Anyway...I don't see this as too antiquated.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...e/PICT0279.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...e/PICT0281.jpg
hey onbike that is one fine lookin bike.
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Old 01-05-06, 12:37 PM   #25
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I ride STI's. I prefer them over bar-ends for a couple of reasons having to do with hand position while shifting, my own style of shifting (I leared to shift often while riding on the road and racing), and just general preference. I have campy bar-ends on my around town bike and they're fine to, just not my prefence while on a longer ride.
I have learned where my own personal take on KISS and on backups and reliability over weight and modernism are, and I'm quite happy where I am. I think this is all a matter of putting your trip (actually any trip by bike, even out to the local pub) in the context of "If part X breaks how far do I have to walk because I don't have another one of those." So, I'll ride to the local pub (1.5 miles) without a spare tire because I can walk home in half and hour if I flat, but I won't ride to the local grocery (3 miles) because then it'll take me an hour to walk home and I'd rather change the tube than kill that much time. But, I don't carry a spare tire on that trip, just a tube. If I'm on a long road ride that's going to start and end at the house then I'll carry a little more, but I also know that I can call my spouse or any number of close friends and get assistance if I need it.
So, what I'm saying is that for me, replacing an STI lever is a risk I'm willing to take on most tours in the Continental US because I'm confidant that I can get a new one or get to a new one in a short amount of time. My comfort outweights my need for reliability.
For what it's worth I also think the most valuable tool that you can take with you while on tour is your local shop's phone number.
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