Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Touring Have a dream to ride a bike across your state, across the country, or around the world? Self-contained or fully supported? Trade ideas, adventures, and more in our bicycle touring forum.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-20-06, 04:17 PM   #1
Lolly Pop
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Lolly Pop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Norn'Iron
Bikes: Gardin
Posts: 1,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hi there. My V-brakes suck. They were fine for relatively flat terrain (canada) but where I live now is much hillier, and there is more crap on the road, which is also usually wet.

My hands are killing me after a short 35 mile ride yesterday over hilly terrain. I had to apply far too much force to slow the bike down, and never really felt I had the kind of control over braking that I would like.

I have had them checked and the brakes are technically fine. Newish pads on both, but they are bedded in. Rims are fine. I think the brakes just don't suit this combination of terrain and climate.

What do y'all use? I am looking for a solution that doesn't involve major changes (e.g. disc brakes) and will happily entertain suggestions around different style of brakes. I recently converted to butterfly / trekking bars, and have a set of dura ace brake levers. My bike has sticky-outie things that the brakes are attached to, as well as a threaded thingie in the centre at the top of the forks.

thanks.
Lolly Pop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-06, 05:09 PM   #2
the homealien
garbage picker
 
the homealien's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: illinwah
Bikes:
Posts: 116
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
V-brakes can have plenty of power. The problem is almost certainly your Dura-Ace levers. Almost all road levers (the kind made to go on drop bars) do not pull enough cable to work well with V-brakes.

If the levers are your problem, there are a few solutions. You can switch levers, you can switch brakes, or you can add an adapter. Dia-Compe makes road levers for V-brakes which work well, but they are just levers, so if you have integrated levers (brifters, STI, whatever) that solution might not be so good. You can switch to cantilever or caliper brakes, which both work with road levers. You can also add a little doo-dad called a travel agent (forgot who makes it) that goes in the cable line down by the brakes and increases the travel so the V-brakes will work fine. That would be an especially good thing if the Dura-Ace levers are integrated and you want to keep them.
the homealien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-06, 05:58 PM   #3
Lolly Pop
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Lolly Pop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Norn'Iron
Bikes: Gardin
Posts: 1,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hi and thanks. My brake levers are mountain bike style I think. My friend gave them to me when I did my bar conversion. I don't have brifters.

Here is a view where you can sorta see the set-up:



Here is a pic of my handlebars, looking at the thumb shifter adapters and a bit of the brake lever:



[Ooooh! velly scary!] </Monster Chiller Horror Theatre> sorry so big!

Sorry that's out of focus, but it's the only one that shows a bit of the lever. The brakes didn't work much better recently when I had the drop bar set-up and traditional road bike brake levers.
Lolly Pop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-06, 06:08 PM   #4
roadfix
hello
 
roadfix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Bikes:
Posts: 18,565
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Those pictured are traditional cantis. Try swapping brake pads (Kool-Stops) and see if they'll make any diff before doing anything else...

Last edited by roadfix; 02-20-06 at 06:14 PM.
roadfix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-06, 06:09 PM   #5
Ridelots24
Clinging to guns/religion
 
Ridelots24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Pgh, PA
Bikes: Litspd Cyx/ Paragon/ Surly LHT/ Madone 5.2/ Spclzd TT/ Boone/ Pisgah 27.5 | Pugs
Posts: 272
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sorry to break it to you.....those are NOT "V" brakes.....
Ridelots24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-06, 06:13 PM   #6
Lolly Pop
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Lolly Pop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Norn'Iron
Bikes: Gardin
Posts: 1,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
D'Oh! thanks!

so. . . what do you suggest?
Lolly Pop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-06, 06:15 PM   #7
Lolly Pop
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Lolly Pop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Norn'Iron
Bikes: Gardin
Posts: 1,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks Fixer, I swapped pads a while back and no improvement.
Lolly Pop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-06, 06:16 PM   #8
Lolly Pop
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Lolly Pop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Norn'Iron
Bikes: Gardin
Posts: 1,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh, I see you specify Kool Stops. Okay, thanks, will give those a try.
Lolly Pop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-06, 06:24 PM   #9
halfspeed
Senior Member
 
halfspeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: SE Minnesota
Bikes: are better than yours.
Posts: 12,276
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolly Pop
Oh, I see you specify Kool Stops. Okay, thanks, will give those a try.
Preferably the "salmon" colored Kool Stops. Then make sure you have someone competent with cantis set them up. The biggest problem with cantilever brakes is maladjustment. There's a lot more adjustment available on cantis than some other types of brakes and, thus, far more room for error.
halfspeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-06, 06:31 PM   #10
halfspeed
Senior Member
 
halfspeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: SE Minnesota
Bikes: are better than yours.
Posts: 12,276
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
And one more thing, I can't tell from the picture if those are the Shimano cantis that had the really bad plastic adjuster design. The plastic adjusters had a tendency to crack which reduced braking force. When they discovered the problem, Shimano sent boatloads of them to bike shops so replacements are available for very cheap or even free.
halfspeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-06, 06:35 PM   #11
Lolly Pop
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Lolly Pop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Norn'Iron
Bikes: Gardin
Posts: 1,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks for the tip. I see the salmon ones are for wet weather, so i think they will suit me. I think the cold is also affecting the braking, with the pad being less grippy because it is so rigid from the cold.

I don't know about plastic adjusters. My bike is away getting a new chain after a link busted yesterday (but didn't break the chain apart). I am grateful to the hedges that broke my fall both times.
Lolly Pop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-06, 06:50 PM   #12
Lolly Pop
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Lolly Pop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Norn'Iron
Bikes: Gardin
Posts: 1,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by halfspeed
And one more thing, I can't tell from the picture if those are the Shimano cantis that had the really bad plastic adjuster design. The plastic adjusters had a tendency to crack which reduced braking force. When they discovered the problem, Shimano sent boatloads of them to bike shops so replacements are available for very cheap or even free.
Can you tell now?

Lolly Pop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-06, 07:22 PM   #13
halfspeed
Senior Member
 
halfspeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: SE Minnesota
Bikes: are better than yours.
Posts: 12,276
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolly Pop
Can you tell now?

Yes, those aren't the bad ones.
halfspeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-06, 08:02 PM   #14
NoReg
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You have a problem there from my perspectivre. I can see why you might think those were V brakes, because they look like them with the vertical arms, although they are low profile cantis. Look at the link below and compare the touring to the neo-retro cantis:

http://www.paulcomp.com/

The touring are low profile, and yet even there, they are less in line than yours. look carefully at the cable angles, somewhat flater than yours. If you had neo retro style, you could have the longer straddle wire that you have on yours. but with such straight cantis, you need the wire seet lower or you loose your mechanical advantage.

Try shortening the straddle wire so that it is flater, slightly below 90 degree angle. If that works, OK, but I fear that maybe your fender will be in the way. You may need to remove the fender shortent he wire, go for a ride and see how that works. If the fenders are int he way, you will have to choose between lowering the fender or changing your brake geometry one way or the other.

I recomend doing this repair for yourself. You need to be able to adjust your brakes on the road. It is not always the most bomber part, and if you can't adjust it yourself it will cause a big problem for you if something goes wrong in the middle of nowhere.

There are more detailed adjustment instructions at Harris.
NoReg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-06, 08:26 PM   #15
roadfix
hello
 
roadfix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Bikes:
Posts: 18,565
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
I believe those straddle "links" are available in 2 lengths. I use the shorter of the two for that needed mechanical advantage.
roadfix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-06, 10:04 PM   #16
EmmCeeBee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SW Washington, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 373
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I concur with Peterpan about the straddle wire.

Somethin' else is caught my eye though. From the photo, it seems your rims are pretty severely gouged. And I mean severe -- I'd say they might be close to failure. (As in BOOM!! ) But from the photo, I can't tell if the brake pads are at fault. You might have worn down the pads far enough for the metal mount to rub against the rim, which would cause such gouges. On top of that, metal rubbing against the rim has almost no braking power at all. Check the source of the rim gouging.

-- Mark
EmmCeeBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-06, 12:20 AM   #17
becnal
I'm made of earth!
 
becnal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
Bikes: Raleigh Aspen touring/off-road hybrid, and a Bob Yak trailer. Yak very useful for us car-free types that like to buy lots of beer.
Posts: 2,012
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have Magura hydraulic brakes. They are wonderful, great stopping power, second only to disc brakes as far as I can tell. And even better, they are an absolute snap to change the pads. No tools, just flick a switch. Wonderful!
becnal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-06, 02:18 AM   #18
Lolly Pop
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Lolly Pop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Norn'Iron
Bikes: Gardin
Posts: 1,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks for the suggestions everyone, including the tip about shortening the straddle wire. As for the rims EmmCeeBee I have been assured by more than one person who should know that they were fine! Brake pads have also been given the green light by more than one person! I replaced the rear ones anyway. May try the Kool Stop ones the Fixer recommended and go from there.

Another option is simply changing the type of brake. A guy in my touring club has dual pivot brakes and he suggests I consider those or V-brakes. I think he has the Big Dog and really likes them. For £25 it's not a huge deal. I like stopping.

Last edited by Lolly Pop; 02-21-06 at 02:45 AM.
Lolly Pop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-06, 12:04 PM   #19
EmmCeeBee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SW Washington, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 373
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolly Pop
Can you tell now?

I respect that a person on the scene would have a better idea of rim condition than what I can see in a picture. But as a person who knows bicycles, what I see in the picture is a severe safety hazard. Rims that wear through tend to explode from the high pressure in the tube -- usually when you're applying the brakes, such as coming down a hill. Not a pretty thought.

I don't have an interest in starting an argument... Someone on the scene will tell you if I'm wrong, and I'll accept that. It might just be a weird light reflection in the photo. Though it's hard to imagine.

Anyone else see the gouged rim?

-- Mark
EmmCeeBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-06, 01:31 PM   #20
Lolly Pop
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Lolly Pop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Norn'Iron
Bikes: Gardin
Posts: 1,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Mark I appreciate your concern. They are quite smooth to the touch. Believe me, I wouldn't take safety risks! Two mechanics and two experienced lay cyclists have assured me they are fine.

I believe what you see in the photo is some sort of stain. There is no uneveness in the surface at all.
Lolly Pop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-06, 02:15 PM   #21
USAZorro
Señor Member
 
USAZorro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Florence, KY
Bikes: 1954 Hetchins M.O., 1959 Viking Severn Valley, 1970 Raleigh Pro, 1972 Fuji "The Finest", 1974 Raleigh Superbe&Comp, 1976 Raleigh Team Pro, 1996 Giant Iguana, 2000 Bob Jackson Arrowhead
Posts: 14,414
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Do you have the pads on the correct sides of the bike? Some pads are made so that if you put them on one side, they will be closer together (less space between the pad and the rim) in the front, but if you change sides, they'll be closer together in the back. You want them in so they will be closer together in the front.
__________________
In search of what to search for.
USAZorro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-06, 02:31 PM   #22
Lolly Pop
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Lolly Pop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Norn'Iron
Bikes: Gardin
Posts: 1,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Dunno. They were checked by two mechanics. New pads added to rear brakes by first one at my request. Then they got a pretty good look at by two lay cyclists on sunday when I was complaining about them. Am pretty sure the set-up is sound.
Lolly Pop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-06, 02:47 PM   #23
roadfix
hello
 
roadfix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Bikes:
Posts: 18,565
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAZorro
Do you have the pads on the correct sides of the bike? Some pads are made so that if you put them on one side, they will be closer together (less space between the pad and the rim) in the front, but if you change sides, they'll be closer together in the back. You want them in so they will be closer together in the front.
Those cantis use conical washers so the pads can be oriented in any which way to set toe in.
roadfix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-06, 03:58 PM   #24
NoReg
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The wire angle alone, and tune factors are more than enough to cause poor stopping. Remove the fender straighten the wire, and take it for a spin if it won't stop even then, there is something pretty wrong. By the time Shimano designed those brakes, they were probably giving the canti design job to a summer intern.

Did anyone mention cables? You need new well lubricated cables.

Bikes stopped fine before they iinvented aftermarket super brake pads. I expected to lock up the tires on any bike I owned, in dry weather.

V-brakes will just bless you with a whole new set of problems. The bottom line is they don't make brakes for drop bar touring bikes, so some patience and ingenuity is required.
NoReg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-06, 04:35 PM   #25
USAZorro
Señor Member
 
USAZorro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Florence, KY
Bikes: 1954 Hetchins M.O., 1959 Viking Severn Valley, 1970 Raleigh Pro, 1972 Fuji "The Finest", 1974 Raleigh Superbe&Comp, 1976 Raleigh Team Pro, 1996 Giant Iguana, 2000 Bob Jackson Arrowhead
Posts: 14,414
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fixer
Those cantis use conical washers so the pads can be oriented in any which way to set toe in.
I wish my Miyata had functioning conical washers. Front brakes are ok, but the rear are pathetic. No matter what I do, I get toe-out.
__________________
In search of what to search for.
USAZorro is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:07 PM.