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Old 07-14-06, 03:43 PM   #1
BigNoseWhipper
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dogs........

who else has had run-ins with dogs?
i dont mean physically running into a dog but having a large vicious beast run after you wanting to tear your face off for just riding by their masters propterty? this has become a large problem for me, but i cant find any pepper spray to destroy their eyes.

today was funny, a little yippity dog chased me so i slowed down and tired it out a bit by staying infront if by a couple feet.
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Old 07-14-06, 05:34 PM   #2
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I don't hate the dogs, I hate the masters. They're the jerks that let them run free.
If I am ever attacked by a dog I will make sure the owner does not have one penny to his name when I am done. I'm tempted to call animal control next time.
I also want to get an air zounds horn, figure a 115db blast might get rid of em.
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Old 07-14-06, 05:41 PM   #3
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my friend was riding when a huge dog was just going to tear him down so he paniced and just screamed as loud as he could at the dog and the dog got all freaked out and left him alone.
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Old 07-14-06, 06:13 PM   #4
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There's a paradox in answering this question, so please don't take this response to be ad hominem: The people who are most in need of some advice (i.e., people without personal experience with dogs) are often the ones least equipped to follow that advice successfully.

Dogs are social creatures, descended from pack animals (wolves) that chased, caught, and killed prey and also defended their territory. Riding by on a bike elicits a powerful set of responses. Unconfined, untrained dogs have a hard time controlling their ancient urges in these circumstances. And trying to outrun them only works in a limited set of circumstances -- if you could routinely outrun them, you wouldn't need any advice, right?

The good news is that the social aspects of their behavior can be used to your advantage. You need to be able to read the dog and the context to know what to do. Sometimes you can talk in a quiet, confident manner to the dog and it will understand that you're no threat. Sometimes projecting a dominant impression toward the dog will do the trick. For example, shouting a very strong, very loud NO! as the dog gets within striking range will frequently deter a would-be biter. But in some circumstances, e.g., small children in the dog's yard, the dog will still perceive you as a threat and won't be talked down.

There will be occasions when you encounter a dog that either knows you can't carry off being dominant or it just isn't impressed with your display. That's when you need to use their self-preservation instincts. This is when the irritating spray, or the tire pump, or the rock cache comes into play. Dogs generally don't want to attack something that will cause them pain and maybe injure them. (This is why wolves, lions, and other predators have specific methods of attacking -- they want the odds on their side and they want to avoid injury.)

The one dog that you really need to treat seriously is the one that comes zooming straight for you at a very high speed, with its head down and making no sound the whole way. That's the dog that you're going to have to disable, or at least inflict a surprising amount of pain, or you're going to be bit. If you have no means to discourage the attack, get off your bike, keeping it between you and the dog at all times, and leave the area as quickly and safely as you can.

I've owned and worked with dogs for thirty years. We currently have four that we consider the integral part of the household. And I have no compunction about rocking or spraying or striking or kicking a loose dog, if I think that I am at risk of being injured.

You can find some good advice at Ken Kifer's Coping with Dogs.
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Old 07-14-06, 07:03 PM   #5
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You can order Halt! pepper spray from Nashbar and/or Performance.

There are lots of ways to deal with dogs and it's a frequent discussion topic on bike forums. Do a search and you'll find plenty of threads.
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Old 07-15-06, 09:02 AM   #6
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Excellent advice, eidsvolling.

I have three dogs that I consider children so I have much experience. I have yet to have a bad encounter on the trail though I am cautious of all dogs I meet. Yesterday I met 8 of them. If unsure, I always dismount and put my bike between me and the dog. A quick flip of the raised front wheel can be an effective tool though I've never had to use it.

The thing I hate worse than an ill-mannered dog is dogsh%t. Just disgusting. I've carried bags in my pack and handed them to offending owners when they tried to leave a pile next to the trail - that's just completely irresponsible, IMHO.
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Old 07-15-06, 11:54 AM   #7
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I was on this one section last fall in NB were I was attacked by a dog every 1/4 mile, roughly every third farm. After a while it's like a discussion about dandelion control. Of course they should be lovingly hand removed, composted, and the dark soil spread on the garden etc... But somewhere around the 20 th attack that day you just want a gun.

Of course after the first shooting you would be spending the rest of the day explaining why you were skulking around the neighbourhood shooting people's pets, no good answer really.

Another thing I notice is that a lot of these dogs do not even twitch when a car goes by. Apparently that has been trained out of them one way or another. The good old days of chasing cars and occasionally being run over appear gone. Bikes, what fun!
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Old 07-15-06, 02:04 PM   #8
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I've just starting carrying a product called "Direct Stop Animal Deterrent Spray" that I got at Mounds Pet Food Warehouse. It's billed as a safe and humane way to deter aggressive animals. It also states that it may not stop all animals. It's a citronella based product. This will be the first product of this type I will have tried. I usually either ride away from a chasing dog or stop and talk to the dog.
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Old 07-15-06, 05:23 PM   #9
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Hello,

How effective is Halt? I carry it since being bitten. I stopped the bike, and stood astride. The barking dog then calmly walked up & bit me on the leg! I am not interested in kindly citronella! I want to know if Halt is the most effective spray I can carry, or should I go to a bear spray? I'm not kidding!

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Old 07-15-06, 06:34 PM   #10
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Halt is what mailmen carry so it must be effective. My mailman was telling me that dogs generally hate mail carriers. They postulate that it is because mailcarriers have so many scents on them from handling packages from so many different people. Dogs find this upsetting.

I carry UDAP when I carry a spray but I don't carry any when I ride - only while hiking and not really for dogs, more for bears and cats (lions).
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Old 07-16-06, 02:59 AM   #11
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i shout and kick, but have resorted to lashing out with my bike pump and also getting off the bike and chasing the dog back home ...

when shouting, i tend to shout loud enough so an owner knows that i am not impressed and will deal to their dog unless they remove it, and those that actually give a sh*t will often call their dog off ...

oh, helps to know the local dog ranger too ...
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Old 07-17-06, 12:17 AM   #12
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I've had a run-in, in March, and it really shocked me. Dog came out of a farmhouse yard, ran up, bit me and ran back into his house. We were on our way to see a local bike builder at the time and he told me when we returned to get our bikes a couple weeks ago that the dog has since developed a habit of chasing bikes and has bit a couple other people but the owners don't care.

Ever since then I've been skittish about dogs but I don't know if there's a solution really. Pepper spray has to hit the eyes to be effective, kicking or grabbing your pump to hit the dog while driving is dangerous to you, you can't out-cycle them. The best solution I can see is to stop and use your bike as a barrier.
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Old 07-17-06, 08:34 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avatarworf
I've had a run-in, in March, and it really shocked me. Dog came out of a farmhouse yard, ran up, bit me and ran back into his house. We were on our way to see a local bike builder at the time and he told me when we returned to get our bikes a couple weeks ago that the dog has since developed a habit of chasing bikes and has bit a couple other people but the owners don't care.

Ever since then I've been skittish about dogs but I don't know if there's a solution really. Pepper spray has to hit the eyes to be effective, kicking or grabbing your pump to hit the dog while driving is dangerous to you, you can't out-cycle them. The best solution I can see is to stop and use your bike as a barrier.
The dog actually bit you and you didn't do anything?
Dog bites me, I call animal control, have it destroyed, and file against the owners, criminal if I can, civil if I can't. They need an example made out of them.
Esp, if they don't do anything about the problem.
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Old 07-17-06, 08:42 AM   #14
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The dog actually bit you and you didn't do anything?
Dog bites me, I call animal control, have it destroyed, and file against the owners, criminal if I can, civil if I can't. They need an example made out of them.
Esp, if they don't do anything about the problem.
There wasn't much I personally could do. I was only in the area for a few hours. The owners were nowhere to be seen and I wasn't going to go running into the yard of a dog that had just bitten me anyway, for a second run-in. No thanks. I did tell the person we were on our way to see, who has since spoken to the owners several times about it as he and some of his mates have been chased and nipped as well. I'm not sure what the latest is.
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Old 07-17-06, 12:04 PM   #15
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A 50/50 mix of ammonia and water in a squeeze or old water bottle will immediately drop them to the ground and start them dragging there hair and hide off to get rid of it. If they happen to be in the road a car will soon drive over them. The next time they see you they will whimper and hide (if they survive being run over).
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Old 07-17-06, 12:44 PM   #16
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My friend and I were riding down a country road, and 2 dobermans came running out of nowhere after us. Both dogs ignored me, and went after my friend. Maybe because my friend was terrified, and I wasnt. One had its teeth around her ankle, then a lady driving down the road saw what was happening and sped toward my friend and the dogs, and had the horn going non-stop to scare them away. It worked, thank goodness. Ive never been afraid of dogs coming after me. I just yell NO! really loud, and hold out my hand showing to stop, and that always works so far. When they stop I keep saying "good boy!", and that really seems to confuse them. Im a female and small, so dogs probebly dont feel very threatend by me though.
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Old 07-19-06, 05:11 AM   #17
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Dogs are the real problem for cyclists because they create danger situations on the road. But dogs arenít guilty. I think the owners and society are responsible for that problem. I have had not many encounters with dogs, but they were.
Two years ago I got to my suburb summer house by bike from Moscow pretty late at 10 p.m. Itís almost dark this time in the end of august. I had ridden approximately 100 km. There is a checkpoint at the settlement entrance. I had seen that the dog was already unleashed. Living here, in my country, I am accustomed to be prepared to everything. So, first of all, I took a pepper spray in my hand . After that I asked the guard (that was just a local woman, not a professional) to control the dog while I am passing by to my house. The woman was very negligent or she didnít understand what the man wearing a helmet, glasses with a bike, for the dog is, in the territory, that is guarded by this dog, especially in the dusk. She even didnít try to hold the dog, but just stood beside one and said ďItís all rightĒ. I had nothing to do and started to walk. I was attacked by the dog immediately. But I was prepared and managed to repulse the assault. The pepper smoke was everywhere around, the dog coughed and circled near, having lost the interest to me.

I donít mind against dogs but I donít want to be a victim.

I have found out how to use the pepper spray properly against dogs. The main factor of success is to spray at the short range, up to 7 inches. Otherwise a dog is able to avoid the jet. Once, I had stopped because of a traffic jam and was attacked by two dogs at that moment. That was the worse situation ...a bad day. I had made a mistake - the spray range was too long. The dogs had stopped to get to close quarters, but they didnít let me start riding again. Thanks God I had clad pants so the dog had nipped their edge only.

I think that all kinds of traumatic self-defense weapon or pistols are not humane or reasonable means against dogs. There is an example of an effective self-defense spray weapon on the pictures below. If to save the pictures in one folder and then to look at them, quickly clicking the ďnextĒ button at the window, a ďmovieĒ illusion is being created.

A useful article on the topic is here.

Alexey
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Old 07-19-06, 07:45 AM   #18
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Good posts all!!! I can't tell you how many dogs have chased me in my travels. I usually just end up Yelling at them for the whole world to hear...and if that doesn't work i dismount and deal with the dog on foot. I find their much less viscious if you look more like a human-master, than a bikey chew toy. a lot of the time there's nothing like a good burst of adrenaline to out-pace them though.

about the pepper sprays and such...good idea. n4zou, have you used the ammonia concoction??? i imagine just the smell would deflect the dog...though i'm not sure how humane that is. and i realise that in this discussion "humane" is relative.
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Old 07-19-06, 08:05 AM   #19
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Here is what I do.

1. Yell "No" to the dog as they start the attack. I think this helps the dog figure out you are a person.
2. If the yell doesn't help I try to squirt the dog in the mouth with my water bottle while it is barking at me. If you are lucky you can make it choke on the water!!
3. If I the squirt trick doesn't work or if I think the dog is too aggressive I get off my bike and put it between me and the dog.

If all this doesn't work, I always plan to hurt the dog as much as possible. I know that is a little harsh, but the dog should not be chasing me anyway.

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Old 07-19-06, 09:41 AM   #20
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n4zou, have you used the ammonia concoction??? i imagine just the smell would deflect the dog...though i'm not sure how humane that is. and i realise that in this discussion "humane" is relative.
Even if you don't hit the dog with the ammonia and water the smell alone will drive them off. It overwhelms and temporally destroys their sense of smell. They use their sense of smell to a greater extent than there vision. For a dog it's the equivalent of using mustard gas on a human. It's extremely effective. Sometimes just the smell of the ammonia in the bottle trailing behind you as you ride will stop the chase. In a way its humane as the dog you spray will never-ever chase/bite a bicyclist again.
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Old 07-19-06, 11:56 AM   #21
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tips

The first, best strategy is voice. Most dogs understand "bad dog!" and "no!" and that usually does it. I don't use spray, but I will wave a pump at them. I used to ride with a guy, and he began packing Halt. At a farmhouse on our ride, located right at the top of a long grade, a large dog gave chase. He dismounted and emptied the can in the dog's face. Fido was cured of chasing. Another riding companion who is mortally afraid of dogs did the same to one on his commute route. The dog eyed him from the porch for months before trying another chase. He simply held his hand out as if he was about to spray and the dog peeled off and ran for cover.

There is a product called the "dog dazer" that purports to use ultrasonic blasts to fend off dogs. I have no idea of its effectiveness.

In this part of Central California, farm dogs are often encouraged to be aggressive. I once had a youngster audibly sic his dog on me. Had I been able to stop, that young man would have learned a lesson in corporal punishment that he'd not soon forget.

I love dogs, and share our home with one, but dogs allowed to run loose chasing cyclists typically come to a bad end, and it's the fault of negligent owners. Aggressively discouraging the dogs from chasing is likely to prolong their lives significantly. Years ago, a friend and I were riding to play tennis. He had an old wooden racket with the frame clamped around its head. When a German Shepherd gave chase he vigorously thwacked said dog. Suffice it to say that the dog no longer chased cyclists. Good for the dog, good for the rider.

Happy trails.
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Old 07-24-06, 02:52 PM   #22
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I take my daughter to nursery school most days in a trailer. We mostly go down a nice cycle path. Problem is, it's a dog walker's path, also.
My problem - My daughter is behind me at dog height, separated from them by a thin wall of nylon and a metal tubing frame easy enough for a dog to get it's head in.
Funnily, touch wood, I've not had a problem with dogs and my daughter (plenty with just me, but I've shouted, and it's worked in the past). I'd have no problem with killing or maiming a dog if it came anywhere near my daughter, trouble is, how to do it. Ammonia and water (no legal pepper spray in uk), splashing around - too much chance of it getting on my daughter through the front mesh of the trailer. Stones, a metal bar, maybe.
I still quite like the idea of an airhorn...Or how about if it's coming towards you, just riding over the damn thing...then the owner as well
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Old 07-24-06, 03:58 PM   #23
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no leash law in our county

Where we ride there is no leash law outside the city limits. That means no animal control officer to call, no requirements for owners to pen or otherwise constrain their dogs. Old dogs don't seem to bother chasing anything. The young pups seem to be the worst.

Dogs are pack animals and if they are running in a pack, can be quite dangerous. The older ones teach the younger members and sometimes those lessons include chasing cyclists. When there get to be too many loose dogs in one of our rural neighborhood, there is a spate of poisonings that reduces the population. No one seems to know who does the dirty work but no one who rides a bike is terribly concerned for longer than a half minute. Dogs out of control are not pets but threats.

I've had one wreck on my bike & it was because of a dog trying to bite me & my wife. The next time it happens will be the last one for that dog.
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Old 07-24-06, 04:44 PM   #24
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I was told that the spokes on a bicycle make an iritating noise that dogs can hear but we can't. Get off your bike and keep it between you and the dog. It should leave and you should walk your bike away.
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Old 07-25-06, 01:49 AM   #25
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i've been told that you can just squirt a dog with your water bottle, but i sure don't feel very safe holding my water bottle while i was chased. my mace also always ends up in the bottom of my handlebar bag and is not accessible. my solution was to carry a 2-foot long stick, poking out of my front pannier. as soon as a dog started chasing me, the stick was in my hand. i'd speed up, yell "no" as loud as i could, and hold my stick. i never got bitten, usually saying "no" made the dogs slow down so i could get away. but either way, i sure felt a lot safer holding a solid object than a spray bottle.
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