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Old 07-19-06, 11:00 AM   #1
calebg
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Building a 10 spd compact double touring/commuting bike (?)

Background

I've raced road and triathlon bikes for years. I'm used to double cranksets, and am sold on compact cranks for lots of applications. I would also like to keep things standard with Shimano 10 speed doubles.

Purpose

I'm looking to build a bike for commuting 5-7 miles each way, 5-7 days a week starting this fall. The bike needs to accomodate aggressive tires for winter in a northern climate. I'd also like to have the option of using it for some light touring, like hosteling in Europe.

Build

Given these parameters, I've developed some of the build, but have noted some of the question areas below. Please feel free to comment and lend advice on any aspect of the build.

Frame: Surly Long Haul Trucker 54cm, red.

Saddle: Brooks B17 Narrow (honey), or a Swallow if I could find it for less than $300.

Bars: Nitto classic bends, 44cm.

Tape: Cinelli cork varnished to match the saddle.

Stem: Thompson 110mm, silver.

Seatpost: Thompson Elite, silver.

Shifters: Ultegra 10 speed STI.

Chain: Wipperman Stainless.

Crank: Stronglight Impact Compact 48/34, silver, Octalink compatible.

Bottom Bracket: Shimano Ultegra double.

Rear Derailleur: Shimano XT or Ultegra long cage (?)

Cassette: Does anyone make a 10 speed 12-32?

Wheels: Mavic Open Pro 36 hole hoops on Ultegra hubs.

Tires: Vittoria Pave 700x25 in the summer, maybe studded 'cross tires in the winter. Ruffy tuffy's for touring (?).

Fenders: Those hammered silver ones. Don't recall the name.

Brakes: Something that accomodates some big tires (?)

Racks, Bags, and Lights: I'm looking to have a rear rack with a basket on top and a bag on each side. As far as lights go, I have little flashers, but should probably look into something more substantial.

Last edited by calebg; 07-19-06 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 07-19-06, 11:43 AM   #2
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Looks like you're on the way to something interesting. Here's my two cents:

Cassette: These guys might be able to help you whip something custom built for your purpose: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/index.html
They can also help you find the right brakes, bags, lights and fenders (maybe). Ruffy Tuffy's are fantastic. I commute with them over a hell road of loose gravel and pot holes and trust them completely.
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Old 07-19-06, 12:37 PM   #3
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You probably want to go with the XT rear derailer since it can handle a larger cassette cog sizes. The Ultegra derailer can only handle a max cog of 27t. I don't know the capacity of the Ultegra long cage derailer.

What is the axle width (OLD) of the Surly LHT? Is there an XT rear hub that can handle a 10 speed cassette?

My favorite tire for commuting/touring is the Panaracer Pasela Tourguard with a Kevlar folding bead. Relatively light. Quite durable. Comes in a wide range of sizes. And it is easy to bring a spare on the road.
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Old 07-19-06, 07:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by invisiblehand
You probably want to go with the XT rear derailer since it can handle a larger cassette cog sizes. The Ultegra derailer can only handle a max cog of 27t. I don't know the capacity of the Ultegra long cage derailer.

What is the axle width (OLD) of the Surly LHT? Is there an XT rear hub that can handle a 10 speed cassette?
The OP wants to use a 10 sped cassette, so right now, with Shimano, that means a max size of 27T (12-27), therefore the Ultgera is the better choice for a RD. If it's going to be a double crank then the short cage will work fine.

All the 9 speed shimano RD's will comfortably handle 10 speed cassettes, as will all their 8 speed and 9 speed hubs, both road and MTB. (Oh, except for the DA 8 speed hubs, I think)

I am using a Deore RD but I plan to change to an Ultgera GS. I use a 12-27 for touring (V nice range), with a 24/34/48 Sugino crankset (gives a great range of gears with the 12-27, and perfect spacing, but I'm experimenting with 24/34/52 this week, and I don't like it so far).

I think the OP's idea of a compact crank 34/48 and a 12-27 ten speed is great. I hardly ever use my 24, it does get a go on my local category 1 hill that has a small section of 22%, but one of these days I'm going to try to attack it just usong the 34.

Last edited by miyata610; 07-19-06 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 07-19-06, 08:17 PM   #5
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Just built up a similar bike (Trek 720 touring Frame). Running a Sugino Compact 34 50 with a 12 - 25 Cassette and a short cage shimano 600 RD. Run it with cyclocross tires for local dirt roads or 28mm tires for long distance cycling (Centuries, four day quad century)

What I've noticed is that the 34 more than makes up for the additional weight versus my road bike so I haven't found a need for anything bigger than the 25 in the rear. I have not yet gotten used to the drop from 50 to 34, anytime I shift to the small chainring it is like I am pedalling air. I usually do a double shift when I shift down in the front to smooth the transition but the drop off is still pretty large.
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Old 07-19-06, 10:50 PM   #6
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Sunrace makes a 12-32 cassette (9 spd)-- Performance sells one for $20 on sale. It's a nice set of gears for a sport bike. If you're used to racing bikes, you might find the gearing too wide, with too much difference between gears.

If you're going to buy parts-- look for NOS Dura Ace 9 speed brifters. I believe these can be picked up new for less than $250 right now. The reason I'd stick with 9 speed is MTB casettes aren't made in 10 speed. A XT rear deraileur would be better for light touring.

I'm guessing you already have lots of 10 speed stuff already?

Finally, why the LHT frame? It's a full out loaded touring frame. A Crosscheck would maybe be a better pick? You can also get a Pacer from Surly, a steel road bike that rides really nice. I set one up with sidepull brakes, fenders and 25mm tides-- that is a great commuter/light touring bike and it's way faster than a LHT (but not as good carrying camping gear.)
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Old 07-20-06, 12:18 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tacomee
A Crosscheck would maybe be a better pick? You can also get a Pacer from Surly, a steel road bike that rides really nice. I set one up with sidepull brakes, fenders and 25mm tides-- that is a great commuter/light touring bike and it's way faster than a LHT (but not as good carrying camping gear.)
Please explain. I understand that touring geometry can feel slow/sluggish, but is it actually "slower"? I understand that it's not a race bike, but I don't anticipate going from 22mph to 16mph for the same number of watts (assuming all else remains constant, like tires).

The reasoning behind the LHT versus the CrossCheck or a Poprad is that I'm entertaining dreams of touring through Europe over the next few summers.
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Old 07-20-06, 02:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calebg
I'm entertaining dreams of touring through Europe over the next few summers.
If you're going to be doing loaded touring, why not go with a triple chainring? It's not hard to master. It's much easier to find then the setup you're trying to put together. Any extra weight would be of little concern. And that granny gear is there for a reason.
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Old 07-20-06, 03:23 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calebg
Please explain. I understand that touring geometry can feel slow/sluggish, but is it actually "slower"? I understand that it's not a race bike, but I don't anticipate going from 22mph to 16mph for the same number of watts (assuming all else remains constant, like tires).

The reasoning behind the LHT versus the CrossCheck or a Poprad is that I'm entertaining dreams of touring through Europe over the next few summers.
With loaded touring in the picture the LHT is the right frame from Surly. If the bicycle were for commuting only I would prefer the Cross Check frame.

BTW, you did not list the headset.
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Old 07-20-06, 02:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calebg
Please explain. I understand that touring geometry can feel slow/sluggish, but is it actually "slower"? I understand that it's not a race bike, but I don't anticipate going from 22mph to 16mph for the same number of watts (assuming all else remains constant, like tires).

The reasoning behind the LHT versus the CrossCheck or a Poprad is that I'm entertaining dreams of touring through Europe over the next few summers.
I have a touring frame'd geometry road bike, that is almost identical to the touring frame the urbane cyclist sells. I raced in the Ottawa Grand Prix last weekend with it with 700x23 tires. Came in mid pack, 37 out of 57, it was my first road race. Touring frames aren't that slow.

Mind you, I was carrying nothing but a pump, water bottle and tire change kit.

From what I understand they don't turn quite as quickly as race bikes, given the longer wheelbase (which I experienced with excitement/terror going through the gatineau hills at 65 km/h) but that shouldn't be as much of an issue when you're going at sane touring speeds.

I'd suggest looking at the Urbane Cycles touring frame. It's a little less than the Surley, and pretty sweet. I'm getting a build of one in the near future!
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Old 07-20-06, 03:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackberry
If you're going to be doing loaded touring, why not go with a triple chainring? It's not hard to master. It's much easier to find then the setup you're trying to put together. Any extra weight would be of little concern. And that granny gear is there for a reason.
Second this.
You may not need it now, but you'll realize that 50lbs of stuff makes those hills much bigger.
Its really nice to have a granny gear.
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Old 07-24-06, 09:22 AM   #12
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The Urbane frame would be the perfect compromise since it isn't oversized tubing, but it is touring geometry and works fine with at least all up of about 350 pounds, including weight of the bike.
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