Gearing
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Gearing
I'm picking out the gearing for my touring bike what is a good range? I am using a Race Face mountain crank with 5 arm 94 spacing, and I have the following rings I could use, 46,44,34 and a granny. Will 3 of those work or should I buy some other teeth numbers,and what would be good for the cassette? I am heavy and old so hills are a challenge. Thanks Ted
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Use the lowest (smallest) chainrings you can get, usually that's 44/32/22. A full set of chainrings (3) can cost more than a whole new crank. Also, a new crank complete with gears will shift better because the ramps and pins are placed optimally in relation to each other.
An 11-32 cassette is the norm. There is also 12-34 cassettes but bike makers seem reluctant to spec them. It's probably because there has been shifting problems with the 34 tooth gear. At any rate there's not a material difference between a 34 and 32 in gear inches.
I like to have the 11 because, although it is not used much while touring, it is useful when riding the bike unloaded.
An 11-32 cassette is the norm. There is also 12-34 cassettes but bike makers seem reluctant to spec them. It's probably because there has been shifting problems with the 34 tooth gear. At any rate there's not a material difference between a 34 and 32 in gear inches.
I like to have the 11 because, although it is not used much while touring, it is useful when riding the bike unloaded.
#3
Professional Fuss-Budget
I'd go for low gearing, if you feel your fitness isn't quite there.
The lowest I've heard of in terms of gear inches is 18", which you can get with something like a Schlumpf or the SRAM DualDrives. I assume you can do this with a triple as well, not sure on that.
A typical touring bike is around 27", by the way.
The lowest I've heard of in terms of gear inches is 18", which you can get with something like a Schlumpf or the SRAM DualDrives. I assume you can do this with a triple as well, not sure on that.
A typical touring bike is around 27", by the way.
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My wife and I use 42/32/22 with 11-32 you can just about go anywhere with the lowest setting.
We are not young nor super fit and it has worked out very well for us.
We are not young nor super fit and it has worked out very well for us.
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While there is a Gear thread happening anyone want to give an opinion on this proposed set up for a loaded world tour? I've got a 12-27 right now but I am thinking about switching it up just a little.
48/38/24 - 13 14 15 17 19 21 24 27 30
100.9 79.9 50.4
93.7 74.2 46.8
87.4 69.2 43.7
77.1 61.1 38.6
69.0 54.6 34.5
62.4 49.4 31.2
54.6 43.3 27.3
48.6 38.5 24.3
43.7 34.6 21.9
48/38/24 - 13 14 15 17 19 21 24 27 30
100.9 79.9 50.4
93.7 74.2 46.8
87.4 69.2 43.7
77.1 61.1 38.6
69.0 54.6 34.5
62.4 49.4 31.2
54.6 43.3 27.3
48.6 38.5 24.3
43.7 34.6 21.9
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Originally Posted by hoss10
I'm picking out the gearing for my touring bike what is a good range? I am using a Race Face mountain crank with 5 arm 94 spacing, and I have the following rings I could use, 46,44,34 and a granny. Will 3 of those work or should I buy some other teeth numbers,and what would be good for the cassette? I am heavy and old so hills are a challenge. Thanks Ted
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#7
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Here's my gearing
42/26 on the front with an 11-34 cassette. Its set up so that I use the 42t ring with from 11 to 23 and the 26t ring
from 17 up to 34. I can infact use all the cogs with both chain rings but keep the chain angle reasonable. I
went with the 26t ring as I was worried about the front shifting, but it works smoothly with an ultegra double.
Going from the 42 to the 26 is a big ratio change, but its not difficult to get used to here's my gear inches
cog/ring 42 26
11 103 64
13 87 54
15 76 47
17 67 41
20 57 35
23 49 31
26 44 27
30 38 23
34 33 21
42/26 on the front with an 11-34 cassette. Its set up so that I use the 42t ring with from 11 to 23 and the 26t ring
from 17 up to 34. I can infact use all the cogs with both chain rings but keep the chain angle reasonable. I
went with the 26t ring as I was worried about the front shifting, but it works smoothly with an ultegra double.
Going from the 42 to the 26 is a big ratio change, but its not difficult to get used to here's my gear inches
cog/ring 42 26
11 103 64
13 87 54
15 76 47
17 67 41
20 57 35
23 49 31
26 44 27
30 38 23
34 33 21
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Originally Posted by GeoKrpan
Use the lowest (smallest) chainrings you can get, usually that's 44/32/22. A full set of chainrings (3) can cost more than a whole new crank. Also, a new crank complete with gears will shift better because the ramps and pins are placed optimally in relation to each other.
An 11-32 cassette is the norm. There is also 12-34 cassettes but bike makers seem reluctant to spec them. It's probably because there has been shifting problems with the 34 tooth gear. At any rate there's not a material difference between a 34 and 32 in gear inches.
I like to have the 11 because, although it is not used much while touring, it is useful when riding the bike unloaded.
An 11-32 cassette is the norm. There is also 12-34 cassettes but bike makers seem reluctant to spec them. It's probably because there has been shifting problems with the 34 tooth gear. At any rate there's not a material difference between a 34 and 32 in gear inches.
I like to have the 11 because, although it is not used much while touring, it is useful when riding the bike unloaded.
The bottom line is this - you almost NEVER use the fastest gears on a touring bike and you seldom use near the fastest. There was one place on our last tour where one of the group wanted to hurt everyone else and picked the pace up to 20 mph for the last 20 miles but I wasn't in high gear with my 53-39-24 combination with a 13-28 7 speed on the back.
But when you need lower gears you really need lower gears.
From mountain biking I've discovered that the LOWER limit is being able to ride about 2.5 to 3 mph. Any slower than that and you can't balance a bicycle safely. You end up swerving all over the road and you don't want to be doing that on a highway with a steep climb.
So you need to have sufficient strength to turn a large enough gear to carry you and your load up the steepest road at 3 mph or faster. I usually feel comfortable riding at 4 mph up steep stuff in a 24-28 but there are times when a 30 would have been nice. My load was about 40 lbs and I weigh in at about 200 clothed.
So while you really need low gears there is a lower limit and I think that a 22-34 is below that limit.
As for high gears I could point out that the gear I normally use was only 2/3rds of nun's high gear so his setup seems to fall well within my standards as well.
There are a lot of ways to achieve the same thing. But everyone that has toured seems to advise lower gears instead of higher.
#9
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Originally Posted by GeoKrpan
Use the lowest (smallest) chainrings you can get, usually that's 44/32/22. A full set of chainrings (3) can cost more than a whole new crank. Also, a new crank complete with gears will shift better because the ramps and pins are placed optimally in relation to each other.
An 11-32 cassette is the norm. There is also 12-34 cassettes but bike makers seem reluctant to spec them. It's probably because there has been shifting problems with the 34 tooth gear. At any rate there's not a material difference between a 34 and 32 in gear inches.
I like to have the 11 because, although it is not used much while touring, it is useful when riding the bike unloaded.
An 11-32 cassette is the norm. There is also 12-34 cassettes but bike makers seem reluctant to spec them. It's probably because there has been shifting problems with the 34 tooth gear. At any rate there's not a material difference between a 34 and 32 in gear inches.
I like to have the 11 because, although it is not used much while touring, it is useful when riding the bike unloaded.
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Maybe this deserves it's own thread, but it is related to the OP's question, and there are people with very low gears answering...
Is there a practical lower limit for gears? I would think that there was, but have no experience down in the teens.
Is there a practical lower limit for gears? I would think that there was, but have no experience down in the teens.
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Originally Posted by cyclintom
I tend to like a 48-34-24 combination with a 12-32 but I wouldn't argue with George's assessment since it certainly wouldn't hurt anything.
The bottom line is this - you almost NEVER use the fastest gears on a touring bike and you seldom use near the fastest. There was one place on our last tour where one of the group wanted to hurt everyone else and picked the pace up to 20 mph for the last 20 miles but I wasn't in high gear with my 53-39-24 combination with a 13-28 7 speed on the back.
But when you need lower gears you really need lower gears.
The bottom line is this - you almost NEVER use the fastest gears on a touring bike and you seldom use near the fastest. There was one place on our last tour where one of the group wanted to hurt everyone else and picked the pace up to 20 mph for the last 20 miles but I wasn't in high gear with my 53-39-24 combination with a 13-28 7 speed on the back.
But when you need lower gears you really need lower gears.
I'm a big fan, hoss10, of experimentation. If you try it and it doesn't work, it cost you nothing but some time.
Originally Posted by cyclintom
From mountain biking I've discovered that the LOWER limit is being able to ride about 2.5 to 3 mph. Any slower than that and you can't balance a bicycle safely. You end up swerving all over the road and you don't want to be doing that on a highway with a steep climb.
So you need to have sufficient strength to turn a large enough gear to carry you and your load up the steepest road at 3 mph or faster. I usually feel comfortable riding at 4 mph up steep stuff in a 24-28 but there are times when a 30 would have been nice. My load was about 40 lbs and I weigh in at about 200 clothed.
So while you really need low gears there is a lower limit and I think that a 22-34 is below that limit.
So you need to have sufficient strength to turn a large enough gear to carry you and your load up the steepest road at 3 mph or faster. I usually feel comfortable riding at 4 mph up steep stuff in a 24-28 but there are times when a 30 would have been nice. My load was about 40 lbs and I weigh in at about 200 clothed.
So while you really need low gears there is a lower limit and I think that a 22-34 is below that limit.
Originally Posted by cyclintom
As for high gears I could point out that the gear I normally use was only 2/3rds of nun's high gear so his setup seems to fall well within my standards as well.
There are a lot of ways to achieve the same thing. But everyone that has toured seems to advise lower gears instead of higher.
There are a lot of ways to achieve the same thing. But everyone that has toured seems to advise lower gears instead of higher.
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Originally Posted by Speedo
Maybe this deserves it's own thread, but it is related to the OP's question, and there are people with very low gears answering...
Is there a practical lower limit for gears? I would think that there was, but have no experience down in the teens.
Is there a practical lower limit for gears? I would think that there was, but have no experience down in the teens.
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#13
Part-time epistemologist
Originally Posted by nun
I can infact use all the cogs with both chain rings but keep the chain angle reasonable.
By the way, what is your motivation for keeping the chain angle reasonable?
Apparently, from an efficiency standpoint, there is very little loss from chain angles.
See issue 50 and 51. https://www.ihpva.org/HParchive/issues.htm
#14
Part-time epistemologist
Originally Posted by cyccommute
Since hoss10 already has the 46 tooth outer ring, it makes more sense to just use it and an 11-34 cassette.
That is, large jumps in chainring size is easier with a friction shifter than an STI/index shifter. Given the small ring is a 26, inferring from the chainring sizes on compact cranks, I would think that a jump greater than 16 teeth would be difficult with an STI shifter.
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
Not really. I've mountain biked with a Quad with a 44/34/24/16 and a 12-34 cassette. A 12" gear won't get you going fast anywhere but I never had problems staying upright.
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Does anyone know, is it even possible to put a cassette larger than 27-28T on a bike with integrated road shifters and derailleurs? From everything I've read, larger cassettes (32 or 34T) only seem to work with derailleurs designed for touring or mountain bikes.
Having never really used a cassette that size, is there a big difference between 27 and 32T?
And I was interested to note what was described earlier in the thread as a big difference between 11 and 12T.
When I complete an upcoming build, I'll have a bike rigged up with brifters, a road triple 52-39-30 and a Shimano 12-27 cassette. This may work for light or flat touring but from what I hear more and more on this forum, I'm going to need to rig it up with a larger cassette, smaller granny gear, and indexed/friction shifters if I'm going to tackle any serious expedition touring. Does that sound right?
Having never really used a cassette that size, is there a big difference between 27 and 32T?
And I was interested to note what was described earlier in the thread as a big difference between 11 and 12T.
When I complete an upcoming build, I'll have a bike rigged up with brifters, a road triple 52-39-30 and a Shimano 12-27 cassette. This may work for light or flat touring but from what I hear more and more on this forum, I'm going to need to rig it up with a larger cassette, smaller granny gear, and indexed/friction shifters if I'm going to tackle any serious expedition touring. Does that sound right?
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Originally Posted by invisiblehand
Would it depend on the type of shifter?
That is, large jumps in chainring size is easier with a friction shifter than an STI/index shifter. Given the small ring is a 26, inferring from the chainring sizes on compact cranks, I would think that a jump greater than 16 teeth would be difficult with an STI shifter.
That is, large jumps in chainring size is easier with a friction shifter than an STI/index shifter. Given the small ring is a 26, inferring from the chainring sizes on compact cranks, I would think that a jump greater than 16 teeth would be difficult with an STI shifter.
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Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe
I
A typical touring bike is around 27", by the way.
A typical touring bike is around 27", by the way.
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Originally Posted by greenstork
Does anyone know, is it even possible to put a cassette larger than 27-28T on a bike with integrated road shifters and derailleurs? From everything I've read, larger cassettes (32 or 34T) only seem to work with derailleurs designed for touring or mountain bikes.
Having never really used a cassette that size, is there a big difference between 27 and 32T?
And I was interested to note what was described earlier in the thread as a big difference between 11 and 12T.
When I complete an upcoming build, I'll have a bike rigged up with brifters, a road triple 52-39-30 and a Shimano 12-27 cassette. This may work for light or flat touring but from what I hear more and more on this forum, I'm going to need to rig it up with a larger cassette, smaller granny gear, and indexed/friction shifters if I'm going to tackle any serious expedition touring. Does that sound right?
Having never really used a cassette that size, is there a big difference between 27 and 32T?
And I was interested to note what was described earlier in the thread as a big difference between 11 and 12T.
When I complete an upcoming build, I'll have a bike rigged up with brifters, a road triple 52-39-30 and a Shimano 12-27 cassette. This may work for light or flat touring but from what I hear more and more on this forum, I'm going to need to rig it up with a larger cassette, smaller granny gear, and indexed/friction shifters if I'm going to tackle any serious expedition touring. Does that sound right?
If you are going to the combination you detailed why not go to a mountain bike or trekking crank? A 48/11 combination is almost identical to the 52/12 in terms of gearing. The smaller chainwheels shift a bit better, in my opinion, and with the smaller inner ring (usually a 36 or 34) you get a better middle range. When you combine it with a 24 inner, you get a low that's worth carrying around
Nashbar is selling an XT Octalink trekking crank right now for $90 which is a super deal. I just ordered one to get rid of the 53/42/30 crank on my commuter bike. Even a speed demon like me doesn't need a 130" gear
Edit: Michel Gagnon has a website about this conversion. He post here in the touring forums a lot.
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Last edited by cyccommute; 01-08-07 at 04:37 PM.
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Originally Posted by invisiblehand
Are there problems with the front derailer?
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
If you are going to the combination you detailed why not go to a mountain bike or trekking crank? A 48/11 combination is almost identical to the 52/12 in terms of gearing. The smaller chainwheels shift a bit better, in my opinion, and with the smaller inner ring (usually a 36 or 34) you get a better middle range. When you combine it with a 24 inner, you get a low that's worth carrying around ...
I ended up with a Dura Ace triple because it was one of the few cranks that met both criteria. I'm going to keep that up front no matter what although I might consider changing out chainrings. Not ideal for touring, I know, but well suited otherwise, for commuting and long weekend/century rides which will occupy about 90-95% of my time on the bike.
Anyways, I was hoping to compensate for the big rings of the DA with a larger toothed rear cassette, thinking if I got up to 32 or 34T that it would perform passably well for most of the touring I'll be doing. Not ideal but certainly workable I would imagine. According to my LBS, the Campy long cage rear derailleur won't really work with anything much larger than a 29-30T. I guess time will tell, and a few mountain passes
Last edited by greenstork; 01-08-07 at 05:43 PM.
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Originally Posted by greenstork
I have some fairly specific desires for a crank set. 1) I need a 177.5mm crank arm length and 2) I'd prefer a splined bottom bracket that stands up well in wet Seattle weather.
I ended up with a Dura Ace triple because it was one of the few cranks that met both criteria. I'm going to keep that up front no matter what although I might consider changing out chainrings. Not ideal for touring, I know, but well suited otherwise, for commuting and long weekend/century rides which will occupy about 90-95% of my time on the bike.
Anyways, I was hoping to compensate for the big rings of the DA with a larger toothed rear cassette, thinking if I got up to 32 or 34T that it would perform passably well for most of the touring I'll be doing. Not ideal, I know, but certainly workable I would imagine. I guess time will tell, and a few mountain passes
I ended up with a Dura Ace triple because it was one of the few cranks that met both criteria. I'm going to keep that up front no matter what although I might consider changing out chainrings. Not ideal for touring, I know, but well suited otherwise, for commuting and long weekend/century rides which will occupy about 90-95% of my time on the bike.
Anyways, I was hoping to compensate for the big rings of the DA with a larger toothed rear cassette, thinking if I got up to 32 or 34T that it would perform passably well for most of the touring I'll be doing. Not ideal, I know, but certainly workable I would imagine. I guess time will tell, and a few mountain passes
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#24
George Krpan
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Greenstork,
I fear you are getting 10 speed. If so, you lose compatability with the mountain bike stuff which is 9 speed.
I don't know how well the Dura Ace rear derailleur handles a larger than 27 tooth gear but it is a moot point because Shimano does not provide a 10 speed cassette with a gear larger than 27.
What kind of bike are you building that you would put Dura Ace on but is capable of touring?
I think of Dura Ace in terms of pure road bike. On a more versatile bike, not a pure road bike, I do not consider road groups but rather mountain bike groups. I'll be building a Long Haul Trucker soon. It's main use will be for my almost daily road ride. I have a high tech road bike but aesthetically, I hate it. I've retired from the racer poser crowd and do not have to keep up with them anymore. Now, I can ride what I really want to ride. I'm going with a 48/36/26 crank. This will give me a good top end AND a good low end. I'll be able to hang with the roadies if I want to and I'll be able to tour on it too. I can use 9 speed road casettes such as 11-23 or 12-26 or I can use mountain bike cassettes like the 11-34. I can change them to suit my specific needs at any time.
My point is, are you sure you want Dura Ace for this bike?
I fear you are getting 10 speed. If so, you lose compatability with the mountain bike stuff which is 9 speed.
I don't know how well the Dura Ace rear derailleur handles a larger than 27 tooth gear but it is a moot point because Shimano does not provide a 10 speed cassette with a gear larger than 27.
What kind of bike are you building that you would put Dura Ace on but is capable of touring?
I think of Dura Ace in terms of pure road bike. On a more versatile bike, not a pure road bike, I do not consider road groups but rather mountain bike groups. I'll be building a Long Haul Trucker soon. It's main use will be for my almost daily road ride. I have a high tech road bike but aesthetically, I hate it. I've retired from the racer poser crowd and do not have to keep up with them anymore. Now, I can ride what I really want to ride. I'm going with a 48/36/26 crank. This will give me a good top end AND a good low end. I'll be able to hang with the roadies if I want to and I'll be able to tour on it too. I can use 9 speed road casettes such as 11-23 or 12-26 or I can use mountain bike cassettes like the 11-34. I can change them to suit my specific needs at any time.
My point is, are you sure you want Dura Ace for this bike?
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As a gearing geek I love this thread! My Surly LHT will have a 20/36/46 up front, and an 11/34 in the back. This results in a lower low gear than my 26" MTB, and a higher high gear than my Trek1100 road bike.
I've been puzzling for a while over how to effectively present gear-inch chart (front/rear*27) and how to present the optimal path through the effectively usable gear, and I've ended up with this sort of a chart:
I'd sure appreciate any critique or suggestions about a way to present this info. I think it's a key issue in bicycle popularity- the market sells people bikes with 27 gears and no info or briefing on how to use them.
By way of explanation, the chart indicates the gear-inches resulting from every gear combo.
The effective path through the gears is indicated by the green color and the smaller sequence numbers.
The large-large combos are not available, there's not enough chain to accomodate them.
So, you'd start in the granny gear F20 / R 34, and click the rear derailluer twice to get to 3rd gear.
Then, you'd upshift to the middle chainring and downshift the rear twice, to get to 4th gear.
You'd stay in the middle chainring for 5 gear shifts, resulting in 9th gear at 61 gear-inches.
To get to the 10th gear, upshift the chainring and downshift the rear derailleur for a 10th gear of F46/R18.
Continue shifting the rear der. until you get to 14th gear - which, if you get there, probably means you're descending and light.
I've been puzzling for a while over how to effectively present gear-inch chart (front/rear*27) and how to present the optimal path through the effectively usable gear, and I've ended up with this sort of a chart:
I'd sure appreciate any critique or suggestions about a way to present this info. I think it's a key issue in bicycle popularity- the market sells people bikes with 27 gears and no info or briefing on how to use them.
By way of explanation, the chart indicates the gear-inches resulting from every gear combo.
The effective path through the gears is indicated by the green color and the smaller sequence numbers.
The large-large combos are not available, there's not enough chain to accomodate them.
So, you'd start in the granny gear F20 / R 34, and click the rear derailluer twice to get to 3rd gear.
Then, you'd upshift to the middle chainring and downshift the rear twice, to get to 4th gear.
You'd stay in the middle chainring for 5 gear shifts, resulting in 9th gear at 61 gear-inches.
To get to the 10th gear, upshift the chainring and downshift the rear derailleur for a 10th gear of F46/R18.
Continue shifting the rear der. until you get to 14th gear - which, if you get there, probably means you're descending and light.
Last edited by edtrek; 01-08-07 at 06:58 PM.