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  1. #1
    cyclopath vik's Avatar
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    Tout Terrain Panamericana?

    Anyone own, ridden or seen any reviews on this bike?



    http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/tout-terrain.asp
    safe riding - Vik
    VikApproved

  2. #2
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    No as of yet: German-made Tout-Terrain Panamericana bike frame, and with the exchange, very pricey. In the USA, Peter White Cycles is the importer. You might email them for reviews info. If anyone could give you direction it would be Peter. Just guessing, that setup pictured would run well over USD 6,000. Lots of top-end complete tourers could be had for much less, included fully suspended with Rohloff and disc brakes, so this bike will never be common.

  3. #3
    __________ seeker333's Avatar
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    43cm chainstays

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    The only really noteworthy feature is rear suspension being integrated to allow a rear rack. It does look as though the rear rack will move around a lot for all that thought provoking engineering. I suppose it doesn't move so much as to disturb the attachment. Overall I would probably bet on a front suspension bike with the fanciest seat post suspension before this idea, or a very serious cantilever system with a rear suspension, I have that on a recumbent, and it works fine. I'd like to test drive one, they are cool.

    Sakkit was working on a suspension bike, not sure whether he worked anything out though. He would for sure sweat the rack and panier details though.

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    Makes it more of an XC MTB. For that price, you are in Nicolai territory.

  6. #6
    Senior Member pmseattle's Avatar
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    Interesting but perhaps over-engineered. The other bike from the same manufacturer, the Silk Road, looks a little more practical, but still very pricey.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHenry
    Makes it more of an XC MTB. For that price, you are in Nicolai territory.
    yeh its a mtb - with the long top tube length almost no one could comfortably fit a drop bar and reasonable length (90 mm min) stem

    the chainstays are nearly standard length for a mtb too - you'd think a bike with integral rack would have chainstays long enough to avoid pannier heel strike. its not well designed for this reason alone.

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    Hi everybody, I know this thread is kind of old, but there is a review available in UK magazine of the Panamericana.
    http://www.tout-terrain.de/cms/front....php?idcat=135
    There are quite a few concern adressed mentioned in this thread.
    Cheers, Oli

  9. #9
    cyclopath vik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oli.roemer View Post
    Hi everybody, I know this thread is kind of old, but there is a review available in UK magazine of the Panamericana.
    http://www.tout-terrain.de/cms/front....php?idcat=135
    There are quite a few concern adressed mentioned in this thread.
    Cheers, Oli
    I'd be interested in reading the review, but I think you posted the wrong link????...
    safe riding - Vik
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  10. #10
    Senior Member GeorgeBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vik View Post
    I'd be interested in reading the review, but I think you posted the wrong link????...
    The first time I clicked on the link, I went to the main tout terrain page, but after that, I got the PDF, so I suspect some sort of cookie is involved. Try accessing it again.

  11. #11
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    Like the idea of integrated rear rack. But you miss out on stuff like the Topeak MTX click-in system.

    Anyone ever tried touring on dual suspension?

    Steve

  12. #12
    cyclopath vik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeBaby View Post
    The first time I clicked on the link, I went to the main tout terrain page, but after that, I got the PDF, so I suspect some sort of cookie is involved. Try accessing it again.
    Got it...thanks for the tip....

    Well after reading that review I'm left thinking the reviewer missed the boat on a few of his observations/comments:

    - on most suspension systems you cannot run them fully loaded without air or replace a suspension shock with a solid member. The design of the frame/fork assumes the impact forces from the wheels are absorbed partially by the spring. Without the spring in place [in this case air pressure] you would be transmitting much higher peak loads to the bike/fork and I would be surprised if you didn't permanently damage it riding fully loaded on a rough track.

    - if your hydraulic disc brakes fail replacing them with V-brakes is a poor solution. It assumes you have rim brake surfaces on your wheels and you are carrying two spare v-brakes, cables and suitable levers. You really have to ask yourself why not mount the v-brakes to start with and carry a couple spare cables and pads????

    - 12 pivot points???...yikes...no matter how well sealed they are going to need attention on a long off-road/dirt road tour.

    I'm a technology geek, but this bike and Africa are not two words I'd use together. The failure of suspension components on the Great Divide Trail Race highlights how tough even non-technical long distance riding can be off pavement and the GDR guys are not carrying heavy loads.

    I think the Thorn EXP with wide tires is a much more reliable and proven solution.
    Last edited by vik; 04-16-08 at 11:07 AM.
    safe riding - Vik
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  13. #13
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    We have toured with the Panamericana, also in Africa.

    some commets from my side:
    There is no comparison between a wide tire and real suspension. The comfort of a wide tire with little air is really nice if you do gravelled roads, but it rolls not too good. The suspended bike can run at full tire pressure with low resistance and still be really comfortable. In really off-road terrain, especially with full cargo load, you dont want to go back if you have experienced the full suspended touring.

    for the hydraulic disc brakes: the disc brakes are so much more reliable than cantilever. the key question is really, why do you want to brake on a rim, that is at least as crucial as a brake. you weaken the part that you ride on, which also carries extreme loads and gets (at least on an unsuspendend bike) all the bumps. the question is, how often did you break a hydraulic hose? in mountain biking disc brakes are the standard now, just because they have so many advantages (e.g. brake power, espcecially in wet conditions; no rim wear)

    Of course new advanced technology always bears a certain risk, but the rohloff hubs shows, where this can lead to - 5 years ago also everybody was afraid of failure and now a lot of people just love it.

  14. #14
    cyclopath vik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oli.roemer View Post
    We have toured with the Panamericana, also in Africa.
    Nice - you wouldn't have any pictures online would you? How long was your tour?

    Quote Originally Posted by oli.roemer View Post
    for the hydraulic disc brakes: the disc brakes are so much more reliable than cantilever. the key question is really, why do you want to brake on a rim, that is at least as crucial as a brake. you weaken the part that you ride on, which also carries extreme loads and gets (at least on an unsuspendend bike) all the bumps. the question is, how often did you break a hydraulic hose? in mountain biking disc brakes are the standard now, just because they have so many advantages (e.g. brake power, espcecially in wet conditions; no rim wear)
    I've never broken a hydraulic hose because I don't use hydraulic brakes. I also haven't had any issues with rim brakes. They work well and any problems are easily repairable most places in the world since they are ubiquitous. I agree disc brakes do have some advantages in muddy or winter conditions. I guess you have to decide how often that will be part of your tour. I do use and like disc brakes for some of my bikes, but I think that people give them more credit than they deserve and underrate rim brakes.

    Quote Originally Posted by oli.roemer View Post
    Of course new advanced technology always bears a certain risk, but the rohloff hubs shows, where this can lead to - 5 years ago also everybody was afraid of failure and now a lot of people just love it.
    Well your Rohloff issue is exactly my point. There was a tourist recently who had his Rohloff hub flange crack in Tibet. Where he had to wait for a spare to be shipped to him. There were donor MTBs with dérailleurs available, but if you are using a very specialized bike with an IGH and no dérailleur hanger you can't make any field repairs. You can only get to a spot that accepts FEDEX and wait.

    Having owned several full suspension mountain bikes my experience with them is they are indeed wonderful and tame a rough trail in a way no fat tire/rigid bike can, BUT it isn't a question of if they'll need to be fixed and parts replaced - just when.

    Perhaps with FEDEX reaching more and more parts of the globe these days this isn't an issue any longer????
    safe riding - Vik
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  15. #15
    cyclotourist
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    Quote Originally Posted by vik View Post

    Well your Rohloff issue is exactly my point. There was a tourist recently who had his Rohloff hub flange crack in Tibet. Where he had to wait for a spare to be shipped to him. There were donor MTBs with dérailleurs available, but if you are using a very specialized bike with an IGH and no dérailleur hanger you can't make any field repairs. You can only get to a spot that accepts FEDEX and wait.

    I held off on a rohloff for several years because of this issue, I finally bit the bullet and bought a thorn last year. Of course, since then I have become aware of not one but several failures of the hub flange on rohloff hubs.

    I agree with your points on disk brakes and full suspension on touring bikes.

  16. #16
    cyclopath vik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skookum View Post
    I held off on a rohloff for several years because of this issue, I finally bit the bullet and bought a thorn last year. Of course, since then I have become aware of not one but several failures of the hub flange on rohloff hubs.

    I agree with your points on disk brakes and full suspension on touring bikes.
    I actually just bought a Rohloff myself. I've been quite critical of them for expedition touring bikes based on their highly specialized nature and a lack of spare parts except from a handful of specialty shops. But, they sound quite cool and I can't deny their utility for other applications where you aren't so far from help. I'll be using mine on a Surly Big Dummy cargo bike that will see lots of heavy use so I'll be able form my own opinion. Congrats on the Thorn....
    safe riding - Vik
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  17. #17
    cyclotourist
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    Well thats at least two Rohloffs in Calgary, that I know about.
    Do you know anybody else that has one?

  18. #18
    cyclopath vik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skookum View Post
    Well thats at least two Rohloffs in Calgary, that I know about.
    Do you know anybody else that has one?
    Nope - I haven't heard of anyone else with one although I'm sure they are here. A city of 1 million has to support more than 2 Rohloff hubs.
    safe riding - Vik
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  19. #19
    cyclotourist
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    Nope - I haven't heard of anyone else with one although I'm sure they are here. A city of 1 million has to support more than 2 Rohloff hubs.
    Exactly what I was thinking.

  20. #20
    cyclopath vik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skookum View Post
    Exactly what I was thinking.
    Since you can't really spot a Rohloff biker from more than 10' away - especially with a chain tensioner - I'm not sure we'll find any of our Rohloff Brethren ...
    Last edited by vik; 04-18-08 at 10:57 PM.
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  21. #21
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    >Anyone own, ridden or seen any reviews on this bike?

    Cathy and I just completed a six-month trip on these bikes in South America:

    http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/southamericaminitour

    In summary, no problems at all with the bikes, tons of heel clearance, super comfy over really rough terrain carrying heavy loads (15 litres of water and full camping gear for a six month trip).

    We got lots of envious comments from cyclists on rigid bikes bouncing their way along hundreds of kilometers of washboard corrugated roads.

    John I

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    I cant speak to the panamericana, but I have a TT silkroad and the bike is amazingly well-constructed and thought out. I would recommend it to anyone. I have used drop bars and flat bars on it and they both work flawlessly. Its a great bike, and Im not surprised to hear that the panamericana was well executed... sounds like a dream trip, congrats!

    edit: I swap stems between drop and flat bars... about 30mm (IIRC) difference between the two.
    Last edited by positron; 06-08-12 at 07:28 PM.

  23. #23
    Capt Sensible
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    TT have some pretty unique designs. Haven't seen any posts on this one yet; it's a variant of the slik road with a BB mounted transmission.
    http://www.en.tout-terrain.de/bicycles/silkroad-xplore/

  24. #24
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    oops i missed johns post.

    I still want to drool all over that mavrick fork w' dyno goodness.
    Last edited by escii_35; 06-09-12 at 10:32 PM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevage View Post
    Like the idea of integrated rear rack. But you miss out on stuff like the Topeak MTX click-in system.

    Anyone ever tried touring on dual suspension?

    Steve
    Hey Steve .I started a tour with a santa cruz nomad with old man mountain racks for disc and suspension.pumped up the rear shock fairly tight and was having a great ride ,mountain bike gearing was great for loaded climbs .comfort was awsome .I was very happy for 9 days then hit the brakes too hard and those hydrolic discs locked up fast and over I went ,landed with a separated shoulder .I still think it was the too strong brakes and sitting way up high that made the situation worse than it should have been

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