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Old 02-02-07, 11:20 PM   #1
ephemeralskin
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?s about the tubus cosmo rack

i am looking at this rack primarily because it has a second mounting rail to lower the center of gravity of the load. but i wonder how much of an improvement in handling this design actually provides.. is it really that significant? (if so, why do no other companies use it?)
also- i have yet to see pictures of this rack loaded for a tour, but is it possible that larger panniers might hang *too* low?
just some thoughts i was having as i consider a new rack...
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Old 02-03-07, 01:51 AM   #2
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It's quite helpful in improving stability. Also, large panniers shouldn't be a problem with the Cosmo or Logo. (They are the same design, only the Cosmo is stainless steel, has a slightly lighter max weight rating, and costs more. I have both the Cosmo and the Logo and can't tell a functional difference between the two of them.) I've mounted the Arkel Bug, Arkel Grocery Pannier, and Ortleib Backroller Plus panniers on these racks on two different frames with no problems. In fact I'm planning to buy another Logo for a new commuter I'm building. These rack are wonderful!
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Old 02-03-07, 12:59 PM   #3
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Yeah, go Tubus/Ortleib all the way around if you can pony up the cash. Very good stuff.
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Old 02-03-07, 01:28 PM   #4
Erick L
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My bike with a Logo, except for the first two: http://www.borealphoto.com/articles/..._alpin_pro.htm

I don't think the handling is improved that much, or that you gain much heel clearance. I can't really tell since I didn't have any of those problems with my old cheap rack. The greatest benefit I found is the panniers' top come flush with the rack platform, making a larger platform. It's also easier to dig in the top pocket or open a top-loading pannier like the Ortliebs when there's stuff on the platform. No problem of hanging too low with the Arkel T-42s.
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Old 02-03-07, 01:52 PM   #5
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I don't tour but I do have a Logo rack. I can't say that it helps with stability much in my experience but I am not a good one to answer that question. I was able to get a little more heal clearance using one of the adapter sets that moves it up and back, very helpful and the primary reason I went with the rack.

The only downside to the rack for me is it's narrow top width. I often run with just a rack top bag and it's unstable due to the narrow top width. I'm running an Arkel Tailrider so it's not very tall but still rocks back and forth a lot unless I really cinch it up tight and deform the bags hard bottom.
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Old 02-03-07, 02:14 PM   #6
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jabowker,

This is the reason I don't like to mix touring gear. Arkel and Tubus are top end companies, but you're having trouble matching their products. Tubus/Ortleib is hand in glove---- perfect fit. Arkel also has a matching rack---another great fit.

Maybe you could look to trade for rack more suited to your top trunk? I don't have any mismatched stuff right now, because I bought parts for 2 different kits....one Delta, one Orbeib, and now evering fits 100%
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Old 02-03-07, 02:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tacomee
jabowker,

This is the reason I don't like to mix touring gear. Arkel and Tubus are top end companies, but you're having trouble matching their products. Tubus/Ortleib is hand in glove---- perfect fit. Arkel also has a matching rack---another great fit.

Maybe you could look to trade for rack more suited to your top trunk? I don't have any mismatched stuff right now, because I bought parts for 2 different kits....one Delta, one Orbeib, and now evering fits 100%
I agree but don't have the funds at the moment. It's an expensive mistake if like for me it means replacing not only the rack but the tail light. For me it may be less expenive to replace the Tailrider. My Arkel Grocery Bag Pannier works fine with it as well as the other bags I have access to.

I just wanted to point out that the top of the Logo is narrow since I haven't seen it mentioned and did not want the OP taken unaware. The rack is great in every other respect and the narrow top is probably not an issue for many, just be aware. I think some of the other Tubus racks have wider tops.
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Old 02-03-07, 02:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tacomee
jabowker,

This is the reason I don't like to mix touring gear. Arkel and Tubus are top end companies, but you're having trouble matching their products. Tubus/Ortleib is hand in glove---- perfect fit. Arkel also has a matching rack---another great fit.

Maybe you could look to trade for rack more suited to your top trunk? I don't have any mismatched stuff right now, because I bought parts for 2 different kits....one Delta, one Orbeib, and now evering fits 100%
I have no problem fitting Arkel panniers on Tubus racks. Ortleib and Tubus are two separate companies, the reason that Ortleib panniers fit so well is that they are very adjustable, as are Arkel panniers.

IIRC several people have had issues mounting the Arkel trunk bag on several different racks.

Last edited by Ziemas; 02-03-07 at 02:54 PM.
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Old 02-03-07, 03:26 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Ziemas
I have no problem fitting Arkel panniers on Tubus racks. Ortleib and Tubus are two separate companies, the reason that Ortleib panniers fit so well is that they are very adjustable, as are Arkel panniers.

IRIC several people have had issues mounting the Arkel trunk bag on several different racks.
I haven't heard any one mention any issues with the Tailrider but I may not have been looking in the right place. My only point was that mixing a narrow top rack like the Logo and most trunk bags can be problematic. As I mentioned I have no problem with the pannier/rack combination. I should not have let the inference that was an issue go by.

At this point I'm living with what I have. Trying to get something else immediately would not be a good use of my funds as I'm between jobs and have a daughter who has had a couple of strokes. Once I am working again and I know I have her expenses covered I will probably try to replace the trunk bag but I'm not sure with what. I've considered Carradice bags but don't have much seat tube space for the Quick Release because I'm short legged (28" inseam). I would like something that is convenient to attach/remove since much of my riding is longer commutes and running errands. The Tailrider isn't the best option for this either. Something like Trek's rack/trunk bag combination may address it the best but that involves replacing everything and I need a J bend where the rack mounts to the dropouts to get to the mounting hole on my bike.

Taking this back a little closer to the original topic of the rack, the ability to get that J bend with the assistance of the little adapter plates was one of the reasons I went with the Logo. The double holes for attaching the plate to the rack also helped with mounting fenders on my single eyelet dropouts.
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Old 02-03-07, 04:06 PM   #10
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Yeah, most bags and racks do work together, or can be re-worked to do so.

I don't have a problem messing about this the lower end stuff.

But the really good companies, like Arkel, have systems that are so well thought out that I just feel it's better not to mix and match them.

With that said, heck, I'm a *ride what you got* kind of person.

But maybe somebody has an Arkel rack they would trade for the Tubus?
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Old 02-03-07, 04:32 PM   #11
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There's no such thing as an Arkel rack. They sell Old Man Mountain but those aren't made for Arkel. The very good thing about their mounting system is that it fits any rack. Jawboker's problem is with the narrow platform on the Tubus Logo. It doesn't accept trunk bags as easily as "normal" racks.
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Old 02-03-07, 04:51 PM   #12
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wow thanks for all the helpful responses. especially the pictures, erick. rock!

one more tubus-related question-- my bike (cdale xs800) doesnt have a brake bridge. does that mean i am limited to their heavy duty racks, or is there some mounting solution so i could run a fly or luna?

i just threw down for some arkel xm-45s. oh yeeeah... im in it now!
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Old 02-03-07, 05:00 PM   #13
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Ah, Old Man Mountian Racks are really the only choice for a top end Arkel bag set up. This gear isn't cheap-- spending $800 on bags-- why anybody mess around with anything but Old Man Mountian racks?

This is the same company, right?

There is no "normal" rack. Every one is a little different. Granted, those differences aren't that big and different racks and bags can be fit to work together. I've got no problem fitting cheaper stuff, like Delta and Performance together. It's easy to get a pretty good system for a little money this way.

But I can't reccomend mixing the top end stuff-- it's meant to fit together.
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Old 02-03-07, 06:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tacomee
Ah, Old Man Mountian Racks are really the only choice for a top end Arkel bag set up. This gear isn't cheap-- spending $800 on bags-- why anybody mess around with anything but Old Man Mountian racks?

This is the same company, right?

There is no "normal" rack. Every one is a little different. Granted, those differences aren't that big and different racks and bags can be fit to work together. I've got no problem fitting cheaper stuff, like Delta and Performance together. It's easy to get a pretty good system for a little money this way.

But I can't reccomend mixing the top end stuff-- it's meant to fit together.
Old Man Mountain and Arkel are not the same company. Arkel does sell Old Man Mountain racks though. When I bought my bags Arkel had a whole list of recommended racks including the Tubus Cargo, I'll have to go look to see if they still have the same list up, probably do.
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Old 02-03-07, 06:22 PM   #15
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For what it's worth I just looked at the Arkel site and on their "Choosing a rack" page which is still the same as it was when I bought my stuff they make the comment that the Tubus Cargo rack is "Probably the rack they recommend the most if within budget" Along with it they also have recommendations for racks from Jandd, Beckman, Nitto and others.

They don't mention the Logo/Cosmo racks but they are great racks in my experience, I just wouldn't recommend them for use with a trunk bag alone because of their narrow top which was my original point.

Having beat this to death, congratulations to the OP on your purchase of your new panniers. I expect you will enjoy them for a long time to come.

And I apologize if I sound disagreeable tacomee, no offense is intended.
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Old 02-03-07, 06:27 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by ephemeralskin
wow thanks for all the helpful responses. especially the pictures, erick. rock!

one more tubus-related question-- my bike (cdale xs800) doesnt have a brake bridge. does that mean i am limited to their heavy duty racks, or is there some mounting solution so i could run a fly or luna?

i just threw down for some arkel xm-45s. oh yeeeah... im in it now!
I don't usually post to the Touring forum since I have yet to do a loaded tour but since I'm in and no one else has replied yet. The upper rack mount you need will depend on you bike. the OMM racks that Arkel sells are designed to attach to cantilever brake posts or the seat stays if they have the provision. Most of the Tubus racks are designed to mount to the seat stays with the exception of the light models intended for road bikes without the normal mount points.
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Old 02-03-07, 06:51 PM   #17
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yeah. i just like the clean lines on the lighter of the tubus racks. i really wish there was a way to mount one on the seat stays or cantilever posts. back home i have a jandd expedition and some beat to death panniers from the early 90s. i didnt bring any touring stuff with me to germany, which is a great excuse to splurge--since its either i get quality stuff i want to take back, or cheapo junk that i might as well leave behind. i hate riding junk, so yeah. im going tubus and arkel.
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Old 02-03-07, 07:20 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by ephemeralskin
yeah. i just like the clean lines on the lighter of the tubus racks. i really wish there was a way to mount one on the seat stays or cantilever posts. back home i have a jandd expedition and some beat to death panniers from the early 90s. i didnt bring any touring stuff with me to germany, which is a great excuse to splurge--since its either i get quality stuff i want to take back, or cheapo junk that i might as well leave behind. i hate riding junk, so yeah. im going tubus and arkel.
No problem mounting the tubus racks on seatstays or the axle for that matter:

http://www.tubus.net/eng/produkte/zubehoer.php

Disclaimer: I don't have any personal experience with these mounting options, but I know they exist and I've done quite a bit of research on p-clamps and axle mounts. More than one company makes these mounting brackets and I think they work with almost any rack. It's my understanding from my LBS that some of these clamps function just as well as braze-ons, with no damage to your paint job.
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Old 02-03-07, 09:57 PM   #19
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i dont think the seatstay clamps will work with the design of the fly or luna, though. (i already have bosses on my frame for racks that attach at the seatstays)
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Old 02-04-07, 02:38 PM   #20
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Yeah, your Luna is made for only one connection point on the top--- there's a piece of metal that attaches the rack to the rear break bridge or the seat post clamp-- it isn't made to work with seat stay bosses at all!

PM if all this doesn't work.... I'll go over to the Tubus website and try to find you the pictures/missing parts you're unsure of.
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