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Old 02-03-07, 03:46 PM   #1
FidelCastrovich
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Front rack-no eyelets

Hello all,

Does anyone know of a way to make a lowrider like the Tubus Tara, work with a rigid fork with no mid-fork eyelets? It has just the double eyelets next to the QR, one of which is taken up by the fender.

Any McGyvers out there who can help me out? I'm trying to postpone the (inevitable) purchase of a proper tourer.

Unrelated question, just a stab in the dark, really - I'm looking to build a strong wheelset. Going with Mavic A719 rims, DT Alpine spokes, and the jury's still out on the hubs. Definitely Shimano, no exotic stuff.
Does anyone know what's the deal with the Hone series? It's cheaper than the LX-XT stuff, and supposed to be tougher and more rugged. That's what i'm thinking to go with, but can't find anyone who knows if i'll have compatibility issues with my drivetrain.

More specifically - the Hone rear derailleur is supposed to hang from the rear axle. Does this mean that i can't use a normal LX derailleur? Also, the Hone hubs are disc brake compatible - does this affect me in any way, if i'm going to stick with my rim brakes?
(I posted this on the mountain bike forum, no one seemed to know)


Thanks, and sorry for sneaking in two-for-one.
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Old 02-03-07, 05:59 PM   #2
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The Hone rear hub is a bolt on as opposed to a quick release hub. Bolt on hubs work with regular derailleurs. However, if you don't use the Hone rear derailleur you'd have to improvise a right side axle nut.
Are you sure you want a non-QR rear wheel?
The disk brake compatible hub will in no way affect the ability to use rim brakes.
I think it's a good idea to always use a disk compatible hub even if you're using rim brakes. You never know how that wheel will be used in the future. Also, it is never a good idea to use a disk specific rim. You would never be able to use it with rim brakes.
The newer Shimano hubs with the center lock disk mounting look "normal" without the disks installed.
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Old 02-03-07, 07:34 PM   #3
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Tubus lowriders can be mounted on the fork with their adapter:

http://www.tubus.net/eng/produkte/zubehoer.php

It's important to note though that you're going to experience the greatest handling differences, on a touring bike vs. a bike that wasn't originally designed for that purpose, when you put weight on the front of a bike. Unless we're talking about a CX bike that already has a relatively rigid fork and frame, you're going to have a pretty "squirrely" load.

Maybe you could get away with a mini rack like this Nitto mini: http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/baggage_racks/20020.html

Throw a trunk bag on the mini and/or a handlebar bag, plus your rear panniers, and you could carry a decent load without overly stressing your frame.

Last edited by greenstork; 02-03-07 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 02-04-07, 12:09 AM   #4
FidelCastrovich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoKrpan
The Hone rear hub is a bolt on as opposed to a quick release hub. Bolt on hubs work with regular derailleurs. However, if you don't use the Hone rear derailleur you'd have to improvise a right side axle nut.
Are you sure you want a non-QR rear wheel?
The disk brake compatible hub will in no way affect the ability to use rim brakes.
I think it's a good idea to always use a disk compatible hub even if you're using rim brakes. You never know how that wheel will be used in the future. Also, it is never a good idea to use a disk specific rim. You would never be able to use it with rim brakes.
The newer Shimano hubs with the center lock disk mounting look "normal" without the disks installed.
Ah, i knew there was a catch...No QR you say...Okay,i'll have to think about it then. For touring i wouldn't mind having to unscrew a nut to fix a flat. But since it's my commute also, and i pretty much get away with carrying absolutely no tools with me- having to carry a wrench, mini as it may be, is a definite no-no.

Thanks a bunch.
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Old 02-04-07, 12:11 AM   #5
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The Alpine spokes may not fit a Hone hub. I know they do fit the XT hub but don't assume they will fit all Shimano hubs.
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Old 02-04-07, 12:22 AM   #6
FidelCastrovich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenstork
Tubus lowriders can be mounted on the fork with their adapter:

http://www.tubus.net/eng/produkte/zubehoer.php

It's important to note though that you're going to experience the greatest handling differences, on a touring bike vs. a bike that wasn't originally designed for that purpose, when you put weight on the front of a bike. Unless we're talking about a CX bike that already has a relatively rigid fork and frame, you're going to have a pretty "squirrely" load.

Maybe you could get away with a mini rack like this Nitto mini: http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/baggage_racks/20020.html

Throw a trunk bag on the mini and/or a handlebar bag, plus your rear panniers, and you could carry a decent load without overly stressing your frame.
Thanks for your suggestions!
I'm not sure i agree with you, about the need for a touring-specific bike. My commuter is made of a pretty stiff aluminum frame with a very long wheelbase, and a generally tourish geometry. The fork is Chromo, so i'm sure it can handle the load.
I agree that a bike used for touring and carrying loads needs to have a strong frame and be fairly stiff, but i don't believe that only touring bikes have these properties.

Its a philosophical approach, really - I believe we're constantly bombarded by the industry (any and all of them, for that matter) that we must have products that were specifically designed for every narrow field and use. In order to maximize profit, of course. I'm not keen on that - i believe we can get by with what we have, if it's remotely adequate, with a little modification and ingenuity.

In any case,you're obviously talking from experience, while i'm just speculating.
If i'm wrong, and i discover that it's a handling nightmare - i'm not buying anything that i won't need on a touring specific bike. If i discover that my bike is not suitable for fully loaded riding, it will only expedite my purchase of that handsome Surly LHT and all the racks, bags, bells and whistles will migrate to their new home.

Thanks!
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Old 02-04-07, 02:03 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FidelCastrovich
Thanks for your suggestions!
I'm not sure i agree with you, about the need for a touring-specific bike. My commuter is made of a pretty stiff aluminum frame with a very long wheelbase, and a generally tourish geometry. The fork is Chromo, so i'm sure it can handle the load.
I agree that a bike used for touring and carrying loads needs to have a strong frame and be fairly stiff, but i don't believe that only touring bikes have these properties.

Its a philosophical approach, really - I believe we're constantly bombarded by the industry (any and all of them, for that matter) that we must have products that were specifically designed for every narrow field and use. In order to maximize profit, of course. I'm not keen on that - i believe we can get by with what we have, if it's remotely adequate, with a little modification and ingenuity.

In any case,you're obviously talking from experience, while i'm just speculating.
If i'm wrong, and i discover that it's a handling nightmare - i'm not buying anything that i won't need on a touring specific bike. If i discover that my bike is not suitable for fully loaded riding, it will only expedite my purchase of that handsome Surly LHT and all the racks, bags, bells and whistles will migrate to their new home.

Thanks!
I think you've read a little more into my suggestions than I was intending. I agree with you about not specifically needing a touring bike. But it does need to be sturdier than a lightweight road bike, and it sounds like you're all set.

The only way to really find out is load up and take it out for a day trip or a weekend before your longer trips. What's the frame and fork, out of curiosity?
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Old 02-04-07, 06:21 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FidelCastrovich
Also, the Hone hubs are disc brake compatible - does this affect me in any way, if i'm going to stick with my rim brakes?
Using disc brake compatible hubs you will have an additional wheel dish, which usually compensates by asymmetrical layout of spoke outlets on specific rims, which are designated for disc brakes. I am not sure if “are designated” also means more thin vertical rim walls also, but that may be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FidelCastrovich
Unrelated question, just a stab in the dark, really - I'm looking to build a strong wheelset. Going with Mavic A719 rims, DT Alpine spokes, and the jury's still out on the hubs. Definitely Shimano, no exotic stuff.
Hi-end shimano hubs are reliable, no doubts. However, as to exotic stuff, I use on my MTB Czech hubs “Author industry” with bearing cartridge. I think, that bearing cartridge hubs have good reliability and are long-lived. Probably they are good alternative for shimano hubs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FidelCastrovich
I'm not sure i agree with you, about the need for a touring-specific bike. My commuter is made of a pretty stiff aluminum frame with a very long wheelbase, and a generally tourish geometry. The fork is Chromo, so i'm sure it can handle the load.
I agree that a bike used for touring and carrying loads needs to have a strong frame and be fairly stiff, but i don't believe that only touring bikes have these properties.
Suppose you are writing about Marin Kentfield, which unfortunately has alloy frame at present. I am a bit bias in favour of this cool bike, which had fine cro-moly frame when I bought it new for $400 in Moscow in 2002. The perfect frame and fork of this bike determined the decision to have it for touring. Another option was Trek 520 for $1140. Cheap components of Marin honestly did its job and were replaced with shimano alivio-deore level ones as soon as they were worn. I don’t want to write about all this in detail, however your can see on the picture below how it finally looks like. How Marin has been to Turkey Mountains look here.

Also have no comments upon the issue of special touring bike extra durability/price probably because I am not too heavy 75 kg and have never had so much stuff to carry to have front rack. Though, except once I carried my and my wife’s stuff both on Marin, while she cycled on an unloaded road-race bike. That was in Finland and in Russian Karelia in 2005.

Not being bike guru, just weekend/3 weeks vacatoin tourer, I don't insist upon my opinion and am also interested on comments.

Good luck, Fidel

Alexey... Olegovich
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Old 02-04-07, 06:27 AM   #9
FidelCastrovich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenstork
I think you've read a little more into my suggestions than I was intending. I agree with you about not specifically needing a touring bike. But it does need to be sturdier than a lightweight road bike, and it sounds like you're all set.

The only way to really find out is load up and take it out for a day trip or a weekend before your longer trips. What's the frame and fork, out of curiosity?

I guess i did read too much into it.
It's not a road bike, the only rack my road bike sees is a quick release, seat-post type, when i'm in the mood for a quick multi-day spin around the country.

My commuter is a Marin Kentfield, slightly modified to suit its purpose, which is now going to undergo a somewhat major change - wheels, like i said. My reasoning is ,again, that i don't mind equipping it with gear that will later migrate to a proper steel, touring frame. The frame is 7005 aluminum, chromo fork. Very comfy, laid back, stable and reliable.
I'm planning a week-long "tour" with my significant other, somewhere in March, and i know i'll have to carry all the gear - so i have to be prepared.

So, to conclude all the rambling - I know that Tubus make their own adapter. I was looking for a more hardware-store-solution, because none of the sites i usually order from have the Tubus adapter, and the ones that do - charge a ridiculous 30 Euros to ship it here.
Oh well.

Thanks again.
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Old 02-04-07, 07:02 AM   #10
FidelCastrovich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex L
Using disc brake compatible hubs you will have an additional wheel dish, which usually compensates by asymmetrical layout of spoke outlets on specific rims, which are designated for disc brakes. I am not sure if “are designated” also means more thin vertical rim walls also, but that may be.



Hi-end shimano hubs are reliable, no doubts. However, as to exotic stuff, I use on my MTB Czech hubs “Author industry” with bearing cartridge. I think, that bearing cartridge hubs have good reliability and are long-lived. Probably they are good alternative for shimano hubs.



Suppose you are writing about Marin Kentfield, which unfortunately has alloy frame at present. I am a bit bias in favour of this cool bike, which had fine cro-moly frame when I bought it new for $400 in Moscow in 2002. The perfect frame and fork of this bike determined the decision to have it for touring. Another option was Trek 520 for $1140. Cheap components of Marin honestly did its job and were replaced with shimano alivio-deore level ones as soon as they were worn. I don’t want to write about all this in detail, however your can see on the picture below how it finally looks like. How Marin has been to Turkey Mountains look here.

Also have no comments upon the issue of special touring bike extra durability/price probably because I am not too heavy 75 kg and have never had so much stuff to carry to have front rack. Though, except once I carried my and my wife’s stuff both on Marin, while she cycled on an unloaded road-race bike. That was in Finland and in Russian Karelia in 2005.

Not being bike guru, just weekend/3 weeks vacatoin tourer, I don't insist upon my opinion and am also interested on comments.

Good luck, Fidel

Alexey... Olegovich

Nu ti dayesh...kak ti ugadal, prikol!

We're Kentfield buddies!
I love this bike, to be truthful, even though i have the aluminum version. Its a good, solid workhorse that i trust with my eyes closed, so to speak.
I think i've been persuaded to stick with the regular XT/LX stuff. Although, i must say, there are way too many options out there, as far as components go...

That's so cool, all this touring you've done. I pray and hope that some day my (soon to be) wife would accompany me on my longer rides. It sounds like a great experience.

Some time next year, my Kentfield will follow the tire-steps of your Kentfield, as i'll be riding from Istanbul, through Georgia, to Baku, Azerbaijan. I was born there, so it will be a kind of roots-searching trip to the past.


Question - didn't the bike's handling change dramatically, with all that weight in the rear, and none in the front for balance? I see you had aerobars, but you couldn't have ridden in that position all the time...

Emil.
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Old 02-04-07, 10:22 AM   #11
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Hi Emil
Quote:
Originally Posted by FidelCastrovich
Nu ti dayesh...kak ti ugadal, prikol!
No problem, I read your thread about a German alloy bike, on which you mentioned Kentfield.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FidelCastrovich
We're Kentfield buddies!
I love this bike, to be truthful, even though i have the aluminum version. Its a good, solid workhorse that i trust with my eyes closed, so to speak.
I think i've been persuaded to stick with the regular XT/LX stuff. Although, i must say, there are way too many options out there, as far as components go...
I would not like to comment this main stream on XT/LX hi-end stuff.
Well, I like expensive toys too. But I have never had any problems with alivio level drivetrain. It is so simple everything there that nothing to break. Their longevity is many times more then any my vacation tour. Ratio price/longevity is much better than one for hi-end groups, which have main designation to win x-country race.
Another issue is hubs. Deore is sufficient level for my purpose. And spokes – no compromise, only good brand, wheel building is also the main point. Rims – their longevity is proportional to their weight in low-end area. It is disposal element and we aren’t racers, so to have expensive ones makes no sense for vacation touring. New heavy cheap double wall rims are sufficient. I use Czech REMERX on my Marin $20 for one rim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FidelCastrovich
That's so cool, all this touring you've done. I pray and hope that some day my (soon to be) wife would accompany me on my longer rides. It sounds like a great experience.

Some time next year, my Kentfield will follow the tire-steps of your Kentfield, as i'll be riding from Istanbul, through Georgia, to Baku, Azerbaijan. I was born there, so it will be a kind of roots-searching trip to the past.
It’s nice to read, thanks. Good luck. Nostalgia, I understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FidelCastrovich
Question - didn't the bike's handling change dramatically, with all that weight in the rear, and none in the front for balance?
I don’t feel this. It probably depends on how much stuff you carry, maybe something else like a habit. As to balance, I carry 3 liter of water and juice on my frame, there also is an option to put additional bottle cages on your fork if it is necessary, and to use handlebar bag. So balance that I have is acceptable for me. The issue discussed many times here and the bottom line is that the final solution is a personal preference, though majority is for low rider. As far as you know Russian look at reports from our tourers and you will not see front racks on their bikes at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FidelCastrovich
I see you had aerobars, but you couldn't have ridden in that position all the time...
Not all the time of course, something like 50/50. I consider aerobars not as the means to get an aerodynamic position. This is not too important for me, but aerobars allow getting relaxed position. If one on the picture seems to you too low, there is a possibility to lift the handlebar up and to adjust the angle of a stem. My stem is adjustable.
Use of aerobars gives you a possibility to avoid drop handlebars with its cantilever brakes and front road shifting system, which is not compatible with mtn one. There are some tricks to deal with it, but you will get troubles to find rare components like bar end shifters for example.
I use brakes with pads parallel movement. This gives a bit more powerful breaking and a bit increases pads and rims longevity.

Schastlivo! Udachi v Israile.

Alexey

Last edited by Alex L; 02-06-07 at 03:47 AM.
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