mycoatl

After hearing so many good things about Ortliebs (and living and commuting in rainy Portland), I got a pair of backroller classics for X-Mas. I was psyched.

After using them for a month, they're going back to REI because I hate them. I have no doubts about their durability or waterproofness. I just can't stand 1) the lack of pockets (esp. to organize keys, cell phone, bike tools, etc. on my commute), 2) the lack of compression straps to make my load narrower, 3) the bottom component of the attachment system--it just doesn't seem to secure the bag to the rack as well as the conventional hook on a bungie, and 4) rolling them down (I know there are other non-rolling models, but I didn't think I'd miss buckles so much).

Anyone else hate 'em (or mildly disapprove of 'em)? I only ask since part of the reason I tried Ortliebs was the seemingly universal approval of them here and thought it important to post some negative experiences. It's back to my Bach and Jandd panniers for me.

savage24

I read a review by a guy who toured with Ortliebs and hated them for the same reasons as you. He really missed having an outside mesh pocket. He said the Ortliebs were so waterproof that if you put anything wet or even damp in the bag, everything else in the bag would become damp by the end of the day - so you still need to store stuff in Ziploc bags.
I have no experience with them, but I have a BOB trailer and while I can appreciate the simplicity of the water proof bag, I hate digging through that big bag looking for stuff. I will be buying panniers this spring - probably Lone Peak

tomg

i am old school here, have used panniersets that are NOT h2o proof, but double-bag contants with simple to get plastic bags from local stores, go to the "gap" get a bag, foodtown, get bags, save-a-lot = bags, the come from everywhere.
double, or even triple wrap you clothing, etc in plastic bags (light weight as well) and you items will be DRY.
i think "water-proof" panniersets may be "overrated"!
my 2 cents!

Bekologist

i don't experience any of those issues. but consumer heads up on the style would have perhaps led you first to the bikepackers. didn't like the lack of compression straps? bike packer. no internal pockets? well, bike packer plus gives the external pocket option, though maybe the ortliebs aren't for you.

the 2007 versions have inner pockets standard, but they are tiny.

i like orts, they are very secure, you can add little security straps to then for even greater adhesion to the racks. i use them rough road/off road touring and have no problems with them staying on the bike, even on 40mph rough road descents. the hook on the bottom lets them actually cam onto the rack when adjusted right.

no complaints here.

wahoonc

I am a "pocket" person when it comes to pack organization. The Ortliebs would drive me crazy. My sister would love them. She uses one big bag and just dumps the stuff our to look for what she wants I know that the Orts are bullet proof and will last, but personal preference is Arkel or Carradice lines depending on what I am doing.

Aaron

onbike 1939

The Ortlieb attachment sytem is one of the best around if one makes sure the bottom attachment is correctly placed and the top hooks properly positioned. I've cycled many thousands of miles with the classic panniers and they've proved their worth many times over. If you need an internal pocket which copes with keys, wallet etc. then you can buy one fron Ortlieb which clips inside the top.

Cyclist0383

The 2007 line of Ortleib panniers has an internal pocket. For older models you can use the In-Put pocket.

mycoatl

Good point on the bikepacker plus. I did look at those and probably would have had a better experience with them. The higher cost takes them too far from the cost to "value" ratio for my taste, though.

Turd Ferguson

I'm not a big fan of them either as they lack pockets/compartments. I like to have quick access to certain items ( repair kits, food etc. ). They seem a bit expensive for a water proof bag. I really like the MEC and Arkel panniers. Much more bang for the $$ IMO.

tacomee

It's really a personal choice..... Ortlieb bags aren't *knock off* bags. They are tough, waterproof, and expensive, unlike anything else on the market. I like them, but understand that lots of folks don't.

But honestly, cheaper non-water proof might work as well on tour. I've toured in the rain with a buddy who has the Performance bags....cheap, strong enough, lots of pockets, kinda waterproof. By packing everything in plastic bags, he kept everything as dry as I did in my Ortleibs. Gear just ends up getting wet on tour anyhow.

As far as commuting-- Ortlieb may have no peer. You can load clothes and files into a dry roller classic bag, ride for an hour of rain and your gear will be bone dry when you hit the office.

stuffing a rain soaked tent into a roller classic during a downpour while on tour....ah, it's hard to see where the *waterproof* bag really helps much here.

mycoatl-- honestly, JANND are really good bags. Nothing wrong with running them over other bags. Go to REI and trade your Ortlieb for new JANND and be happy.

cyccommute 

Personally, I like them exactly for the lack of pockets. I've had panniers with lots of exterior pockets that spent most of their time empty or I tend to fill them with junk I just don't need. I don't like compression straps either. They just tend to flap in the wind and end up bugging me. However, with the rollers, you just roll them down tight against your load, no need for compression.

For touring, I've always packed all of my gear in large ziplock bags for organization anyway. Each day's clothes are packed together so that all I have to do is pull one out and put it on. Dirty clothes go back in the bag. I used to do it for dryness but I've found it so convenient that I do it now just to keep stuff organized.

The mounting system is so much better than anything else I've ever used that I retrofitted a set of cheaper bags with the Ortlieb mount. You do need to adjust the lower tab so that it gets a good purchase on the rack. But even if they bounce loose (I've had that problem with the front bags) the upper mounts are so good that they don't go anywhere. With the old bungie/hook system on other bags, I've had to chase bags down the road when I've hit a bump.

I wouldn't use them for a commute but then I don't like using panniers for commuting anyway. There I stick to a rack bag.

steveknight

I do miss the pockets for sure. but once you align the bottom hook well they are drop and and stay on. one handed mounting and removing is very nice.
my biggest complaint is they fall over when you set them down.

Lolly Pop

I find a brick in the bottom helps keep them upright.

arctos

Waterproof panniers have never been necessary in my experience. My lightweight dry bags from kayaking have effectively protected my gear inside my Beckman panniers through many a deluge on and off road while touring.

cyccommute:
Check out the Robert Beckman Designs Panniers [formerly Needleworks ]. They have the simplest and best attachment system that I have ever used or seen. Just five hooks[3 top and 2 bottom] and one velcro strap allows one hand on or off the bike. When attached to BG Racks or Beckman Racks they are a solid unit that is an extension of the bike that does not move ever. I have had mine for over twenty years and they have been bulletproof.

Beckman even has sliders on the compression straps that prevent loose ends from flapping in the wind. I like silent running too!

steveknight

that would do it (G) I have my laptop in there and I have to remove it so it does not ge banged up.

cruentus

There is no question that the Ortliebs are well made. Their big strength is that they are waterproof. Their big weakness is that they are waterproof. Ortlieb bags are fantastic if you can be certain that everything you place into them will be dry. If you are interested in credit card touring -- riding from motel to motel -- the Ortliebs are perfect. On the other hand, I don't recommend them for bike camping -- especially if you will be stealth camping. In warm weather, waterproof bags become mobile mold culture labs.

I prefer Arkel bags for hardcore touring. Arkel sells rain covers for their bags that work reasonably well for everything except monsoons. Dry bags work all the time.

MichaelW

I dont think roll tops are ideal for commuting. I tend to dig around in my flap-tops several times a day. I can stuff or grab items of clothing from the saddle with my Carradice bags. They are easy to overload with a big extension flap.
The Orlieb mounting system is excellent and its cousin the Rixen and Kaul Klickfix is almost as good. Hook and elastic has no business on a 21st century pannier. I have ridden R&K mopunts on rough mountain trails and they never shift.
One external pocket is useful ; Im not one for a mass of organiser compartments but some people prefer this arrangement.

Roughstuff

Hmmm...i wonder if that might be my review? SHudder to think there is someone who hates Ortlieb's as much as I do! Indeed...what goes in wet, stays wet.

You do NOT WANT WATERPROOF Bags...ya want breathable bags that ya supplement with a few plastic sacks when the rain gets going.


https://www.cyclingscholar.com

roughstuff

vik 

I don't really "get" the purpose of an Ortlieb "rant". They deliver what they say they deliver - durable waterproof cargo capacity and they have been proven through many tours and daily commutes. If you aren't a fan of a big single waterproof compartment that's cool - just buy a different set of panniers.

I try and buy Canadian when I can. Arkel would be an obvious choice for panniers, but I just don't like loads of pockets and non-waterproof bags. I don't think of the Arkel bags as less than stellar - I just prefer Ortlieb.

FWIW I use both the top roller models and the bike packer models depending what my needs call for. I have put the exterior pockets on several of my Ortlieb panniers. Having one waterproof pocket is handy and they can be removed and left at home if you don't want them. Adding the pockets does not compromise the waterproofness of the main bag.

There are several quality bike pannier options out there - certainly enough variety to meet almost everyones' needs.

Complaining about Ortliebs having only one compartment and being waterproof is like buying a Ferrari and complaining about the gas mileage.

mycoatl

As I said before, I totally believe Ortliebs deliver what they say they deliver. The purpose of my little rant thread is just to provide a different point of view from the almost universal approval of Ortliebs, and provide some other things for folks to consider when they're purchasing panniers. YMMV.

Allen

From a backpacking point of view:
Mountain Smith backpacks were full of pockets, compression straps, and other adjustment components. Some people loved them, to me they were clunky and needlessly complicated. Arc'Teryx made what was effectively a roll top dry bag attached to a frame. Clean design, few pockets, and one rolled the top down farther rather than use compression straps. My brother hates it for the same reason the OP dislikes Ortlieb.
Two approaches to solve the same problem. I prefer the simple approach myself. Less to break.
One big difference between the two of us (brother and me) is I use stuff sacks for everything. Pants go in one stuff sack, socks & underwear another, and so on. Paul uses the pockets and lash-ons to organize his belongings. When I have something wet I use a rubberized stuff-sack, Paul places his wet stuff in a lash-on bag.
As for Ortlieb's mounting system, I've yet to see a design that beats it. For me both the Q1 and Q2 systems have always worked without fail.

--A

tacomee

Thanks AllenG--- your post says it all. most of cycling is just finding the right gear for the right rider.

CyKKlist

Looks like I'm in for a treat, because I'm doing a short 4 night tour testing out my new Ortlieb Bike Packer Plus panniers. But my son will be using Performance brand rear panniers and a Performance handlebar bag (I have the Arkel Big Handlebar Bag). I can see where the "big loose bag" effect would drive many people over a cliff, but I do agree with the comment that separating things into Ziplock bags for organization is an excellent way to go. It's also possible to take wet/damp clothes and air them out on the rack or in the exterior mesh pockets on the Ortlleib (Plus series only, I think). I'll find out soon how well this will work for me.

Extra note: Arkel has one of the best product web sites I've seen -- every time I go there I feel the need to buy something from them. So far I've only purchased the Big Bar Bag, but I came close to buying a closeout Tail Rider after reading the web page for it!

Ken

Cave

So why'd you buy Ortliebs?

So why'd you buy Ortliebs?

No way, dude! Bungies are BAD news on rough roads with heavy loads. Hooks and non-elastic straps are OK, but if you insist on hooks on bungies you'd better have a few cable ties handy to secure your load.

The lack of pockets and the complete waterproofness may or may not suit you, but if the attachment system dosen't then you either have a wierd rack or you just haven't adjusted the pannies properly.

So why'd you buy rollers?


I borrowed my sisters Ortlieb front bags, I've never used a pannier more robust, more securely attached or more weather proof.
They are also light.
They also cost a mint.

Sounds like you just bought them based on other peoples' requirements and preferences, rather than your own.

HardyWeinberg

I have Chapak panniers, which are like ortliebs but lower rent in every respect, most especially the attachment system (similar clamp at top but not as easy to manipulate). They are waterproof, which I find is essential for PNW commuting (the way it works out for me, anyway). I agree for lengthy touring you would want ventilation (or you might not want to put wet stuff into them for long). I am burning through the remaining spare parts for these Chapaks that still exist in North America, when they are gone and I can't attach them anymore, I am leaning toward Ortliebs as a replacement. But I'm already comfortable w/ the one-big-bag and rolling issues. I might like pockets but I don't want to need waterproof covers, and I also like the easy detaching a lot, so that the panniers are more like luggage, less like part of the rack.

That said, I can't say that I love my panniers (or their design). But they meet 2 criteria (waterproof, easy off/on), and those weigh more heavily in my decision process than elegant packing options.