Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 28
  1. #1
    My custom user title. kdos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Southern California.
    My Bikes
    2006 Bianchi Volpe.
    Posts
    47
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Climbing while loaded.

    My apologies if this has been discussed already.

    When it comes to climbing, is there a difference between having only a fully loaded rear, as opposed to having an equally distributed load between rear and front?

  2. #2
    Lentement mais sûrement Erick L's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Montréal, Québec, Canada
    My Bikes
    Peugeot Alpin Pro, Surly LHT
    Posts
    1,989
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Same as on the flats, a rear load is less stable than front and rear, but you can feel it a lot more since you aren't going as fast. Another issue could be the front wheel lifting off the ground on very steep climbs.
    Erick - www.borealphoto.com/velo

  3. #3
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    I ride where the thylacine roamed!
    My Bikes
    Lots
    Posts
    38,897
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have ridden with the bulk of my luggage weight on the rear rack, and the bulk of my luggage weight on the front rack.

    Climbing is easier when the bulk of my luggage weight is on the front rack. However, descending can be a little scarier. I have actually switched my panniers back and forth on a few rides. To the front for the climb and to the rear for the descent.

  4. #4
    Every day a winding road spinnaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    My Bikes
    2005 Cannondale SR500, 2008 Trek 7.3 FX, Jamis Aurora
    Posts
    4,339
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Another interesting thread. And sorry for hijacking your thread but I have a related question.

    I "credit card" toured last year. It sure is amazing what some clothes, a few tools and a grooming kit can add up to.

    I can get pretty much everything in my small panniers plus a small backpack strapped to the top of the rack. Would I be better off going with a front rack too? Would it be the rack be worth the extra weight considering my light load?

    I can't see how you folks do it carrying tent, sleeping bag, cooking gear and food on top of what you might bring on a "credit card" tour.

  5. #5
    kingdom of tooth and claw
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Lafayette, CA
    My Bikes
    2008 blue surly LHT, 88 centurion ironman with some mods, old but beloved 01/02 trek 4900 alpha mtn bike
    Posts
    40
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have similar concerns; I think I might face "diminishing returns" if i mount a front rack w/panniers, since I've got my gear down to sub 20lbs (inspired by the recent thread on that.) does anyone have an idea/experience regarding weight limits for rear-pannier-only touring, eg. at what weight does it become too unwieldly?
    everything with wings is restless, aimless, drunk and dour
    butterflies and birds collide at hot ungodly hours

  6. #6
    Lentement mais sûrement Erick L's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Montréal, Québec, Canada
    My Bikes
    Peugeot Alpin Pro, Surly LHT
    Posts
    1,989
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The limit is yours to define. I've toured fully loaded (including a tripod!) with rear panniers only and never had a problem. It's only annoying at slow speed. I'm more concerned about all that dead weight on the rear wheel. For credit-card touring, I wouldn't add a front rack. A bar bag and a single pannier (15L) is enough for me.
    Erick - www.borealphoto.com/velo

  7. #7
    cyclopath vik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Victoria, BC
    My Bikes
    Surly Krampus, Surly Straggler, Pivot Mach 6, Bike Friday Tikit, Bike Friday Tandem, Santa Cruz Nomad
    Posts
    5,237
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by blueskytheory
    I have similar concerns; I think I might face "diminishing returns" if i mount a front rack w/panniers, since I've got my gear down to sub 20lbs (inspired by the recent thread on that.) does anyone have an idea/experience regarding weight limits for rear-pannier-only touring, eg. at what weight does it become too unwieldly?
    There is no way anyone can give you a useful answer. It depends so much on you, your bike and where you'll be riding. If you have a bike with a rear rack and panniers it is fairly easy to run some tests and see what works for you.

    One word of caution though - a load that seems unstable the in the first five mins could be fine after an hour or two. I have started tours worried about how unstable my bike was and forgotten about it by the end of day 1. It may take a little time to get used to a particular configuration.
    safe riding - Vik
    VikApproved

  8. #8
    Lentement mais sûrement Erick L's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Montréal, Québec, Canada
    My Bikes
    Peugeot Alpin Pro, Surly LHT
    Posts
    1,989
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by spinnaker
    I can't see how you folks do it carrying tent, sleeping bag, cooking gear and food on top of what you might bring on a "credit card" tour.
    Look at the packing list on this post. Everything went inside those panniers. Personnally, I wonder why I bring 4 panniers sometimes.
    Erick - www.borealphoto.com/velo

  9. #9
    Ho-Jahm Hocam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Manchester, NH
    Posts
    4,228
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Just looking at it, your front wheel is much stronger than your rear wheel because it isn't dished for all those cogs. Also, most of your person's weight is on your weaker rear wheel, so why not stack up what you can on the stronger front?
    Race-o-meter:
    Broken until next season

  10. #10
    Senior Member Speedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Boston Area
    My Bikes
    Univega Gran Turismo, Guerciotti, Bridgestone MB2, Bike Friday New World Tourist, Serotta Ti
    Posts
    1,998
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Oh, this isn't about drinking!

  11. #11
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    I ride where the thylacine roamed!
    My Bikes
    Lots
    Posts
    38,897
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hocam
    Just looking at it, your front wheel is much stronger than your rear wheel because it isn't dished for all those cogs. Also, most of your person's weight is on your weaker rear wheel, so why not stack up what you can on the stronger front?
    Exactly!! Precisely why I ride with my panniers on the front most of the time. The only time I ride with them on the back is if I'm just out for a little overnight tour, or if I know I'll be negotiating a lot of steep descents.

    And having the panniers on the front seemed to stabilize my bicycle and improve his handling.

  12. #12
    Occasional poster countrydirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Pueblo, CO
    My Bikes
    Miyata Trail, Giant Kronos
    Posts
    287
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedo
    Oh, this isn't about drinking!

  13. #13
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Denver, CO
    My Bikes
    Some silver ones, a black one, a red one, an orange one and a couple of titanium ones
    Posts
    15,639
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by kdos
    My apologies if this has been discussed already.

    When it comes to climbing, is there a difference between having only a fully loaded rear, as opposed to having an equally distributed load between rear and front?
    It's a personal choice really. I've never liked the 'tail wagging the dog' feel of a heavy rear load (even commuting with a trunk bag I can get this feel) especially on high speed descents or when standing. I have similar problems with a trailer which is just an extreme version of rear mounted bags. Front bags, with 60% of the load, dampen the steering and make descents more controllable in my experience.
    Stuart Black
    Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
    Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
    Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
    Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
    An Good Ol' Fashion Appalachian Butt Whoopin'.

  14. #14
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Denver, CO
    My Bikes
    Some silver ones, a black one, a red one, an orange one and a couple of titanium ones
    Posts
    15,639
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by spinnaker
    Another interesting thread. And sorry for hijacking your thread but I have a related question.

    I "credit card" toured last year. It sure is amazing what some clothes, a few tools and a grooming kit can add up to.

    I can get pretty much everything in my small panniers plus a small backpack strapped to the top of the rack. Would I be better off going with a front rack too? Would it be the rack be worth the extra weight considering my light load?

    I can't see how you folks do it carrying tent, sleeping bag, cooking gear and food on top of what you might bring on a "credit card" tour.
    It depends on how spartan you want to go and where you tour. I've done the two ends of the Lewis and Clark Trail in recent years. There's vast stretches where your credit card won't do anything for you so you need to carry lots of stuff that you might not need to in more civilized areas. (And trust me, the eastern end is less civilized than the western end ) I carry more in the way of clothing than most people would since I don't like doing laundry every night. I don't carry any electronics but I do carry a least one and possibly 3 paper back books as well as paper and writing stuff for letters. Those are heavy.

    Lots of people don't mind living in bivy sacks but I couldn't. I need a little space to sit up in when it rains or when I'm chewing through one of those 3 books (I've been know to finish one in a night. I need to start carrying Russian literature ). Lot's of people are satisfied with a tarp and a sleeping bag but I find that I get woozy when I lose that much blood!

    And finally, it's all about training. Six to 8 weeks before a tour, I start to carry loads of rice around everywhere I ride and I increase the weight by 5 lbs (starting from 20) once or twice a week until I'm carrying close to the load that I'm going to carry. When you live in a hilly, mountainous high altitude area, dropping down to lower altitudes gives you a distinct advantage
    Stuart Black
    Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
    Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
    Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
    Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
    An Good Ol' Fashion Appalachian Butt Whoopin'.

  15. #15
    Ho-Jahm Hocam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Manchester, NH
    Posts
    4,228
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Machka
    Exactly!! Precisely why I ride with my panniers on the front most of the time. The only time I ride with them on the back is if I'm just out for a little overnight tour, or if I know I'll be negotiating a lot of steep descents.

    And having the panniers on the front seemed to stabilize my bicycle and improve his handling.
    Awesome! I'm in the process of building up touring stuff and that's what I'm planning to do. I think it increases handling by lowering and centering your center of gravity, front panniers always look lower than rear ones to me. Also all that weight on the fork probably makes it harder to move off center.
    Race-o-meter:
    Broken until next season

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    1,294
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's mostly matching the load, the bike and the rider. Some tips that work for me.

    1. I never stand to climb. Standing generates lots of torque and racers do it....but for touring, commuting, general rec. rding, why do it? Standing makes the bike sway side to side and on a loaded bike, you could just tip over and crash.

    2. Lower gears work the best. If you're not going to stand and mash the petals to climb, you have to down shift and spin lower gears. Sit and spin--- enjoy yourself!

  17. #17
    Senior Member BigBlueToe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Central Coast, CA
    My Bikes
    Surly LHT, Specialized Rockhopper, Nashbar Touring (old), Specialized Stumpjumper (older), Nishiki Tourer (model unknown)
    Posts
    3,388
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Just looking at it, your front wheel is much stronger than your rear wheel because it isn't dished for all those cogs. Also, most of your person's weight is on your weaker rear wheel, so why not stack up what you can on the stronger front?
    This is true. I've broken a lot of spokes on the rear wheel, never any on the front. I'd try to load up the front first for this reason. However, when the load starts to get pretty heavy, I prefer balance, so I'd go with both rear and front, rather than just front.

    One more theoretical thing: As mountain bikers know well, when you're climbing, your center of gravity shifts backwards and you're more likely to wheelie. This also means more weight would be over your rear wheel, and you'd be more likely to break spokes. (Did I mention, I've broken a lot?)

  18. #18
    cyclopath vik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Victoria, BC
    My Bikes
    Surly Krampus, Surly Straggler, Pivot Mach 6, Bike Friday Tikit, Bike Friday Tandem, Santa Cruz Nomad
    Posts
    5,237
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by BigBlueToe
    This is true. I've broken a lot of spokes on the rear wheel, never any on the front. ....[snip]... (Did I mention, I've broken a lot?)
    If you are breaking a lot of spokes than:

    a) you are overloading your wheels grossly

    b) have poorly built wheels

    A well built wheel designed for fully loaded touring shouldn't break spokes at all.
    safe riding - Vik
    VikApproved

  19. #19
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Denver, CO
    My Bikes
    Some silver ones, a black one, a red one, an orange one and a couple of titanium ones
    Posts
    15,639
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by tacomee
    It's mostly matching the load, the bike and the rider. Some tips that work for me.

    1. I never stand to climb. Standing generates lots of torque and racers do it....but for touring, commuting, general rec. rding, why do it? Standing makes the bike sway side to side and on a loaded bike, you could just tip over and crash.
    'Cause my butt hurts! It's nice to stretch the legs occasionally, too.
    Stuart Black
    Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
    Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
    Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
    Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
    An Good Ol' Fashion Appalachian Butt Whoopin'.

  20. #20
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Denver, CO
    My Bikes
    Some silver ones, a black one, a red one, an orange one and a couple of titanium ones
    Posts
    15,639
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by vik
    A well built wheel designed for fully loaded touring shouldn't break spokes at all.
    In the real world stuff happens. Even well built wheels will occasionally pop a spoke. Rough roads, hit a pothole, maybe pushing the wheels weight limits some, standing up to try and sprint to the top of a hill etc. It just happens.
    Stuart Black
    Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
    Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
    Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
    Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
    An Good Ol' Fashion Appalachian Butt Whoopin'.

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Stratford, New Zealand
    My Bikes
    2004 Mongoose Crossway 450, 198x Mitchells 7 Speed, 1990 Paul Dye Hand Built 7 Speed, 1965 Raleigh Sport
    Posts
    185
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I toured once with 2 60 litre panniers on the front, and none on the rear. It worked OK with a couple of exceptions. The steering mostly felt very stable, except at low speeds and while performing tight manouevers,when it became quite hard to control properly. This tended to make starting on steep grades even more difficult. I also found that if I did stand to get any more power on a very steep grade, the rear tire would lose traction. Mostly it was easy to deal with though.

  22. #22
    Ho-Jahm Hocam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Manchester, NH
    Posts
    4,228
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by tspoon
    I toured once with 2 60 litre panniers on the front, and none on the rear. It worked OK with a couple of exceptions. The steering mostly felt very stable, except at low speeds and while performing tight manouevers,when it became quite hard to control properly. This tended to make starting on steep grades even more difficult. I also found that if I did stand to get any more power on a very steep grade, the rear tire would lose traction. Mostly it was easy to deal with though.
    Any idea how much weight was in the panniers?
    Race-o-meter:
    Broken until next season

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Stratford, New Zealand
    My Bikes
    2004 Mongoose Crossway 450, 198x Mitchells 7 Speed, 1990 Paul Dye Hand Built 7 Speed, 1965 Raleigh Sport
    Posts
    185
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Probably about 25-30 lb including the weight of the bag themselves - not overly heavy compared to international tourists, as I was touring in my own country and didn't need quite as much stuff. I also had a handle bar bag which added another few pounds of weight.

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    My Bikes
    Cannondale C400
    Posts
    228
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by vik
    One word of caution though - a load that seems unstable the in the first five mins could be fine after an hour or two. I have started tours worried about how unstable my bike was and forgotten about it by the end of day 1. It may take a little time to get used to a particular configuration.
    Excellent point. The first time I used front panniers was in spring 2005. I was on a backroad in VA next to a ditch. For some reason, I had to turn my wheel just a bit, and the next thing I knew the front-weight seemed to pull me into the ditch (nothing serious). The front load wasn't that heavy; it was just new to me. By the end of the day or before, I had adjusted my body and thinking to the new, front weight, and never had a problem afterward.

    David in FL

  25. #25
    cyclopath vik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Victoria, BC
    My Bikes
    Surly Krampus, Surly Straggler, Pivot Mach 6, Bike Friday Tikit, Bike Friday Tandem, Santa Cruz Nomad
    Posts
    5,237
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute
    In the real world stuff happens. Even well built wheels will occasionally pop a spoke. Rough roads, hit a pothole, maybe pushing the wheels weight limits some, standing up to try and sprint to the top of a hill etc. It just happens.
    Okay hitting a severe pot hole would be "not normal use" and I could see breaking a spoke. Over loading a wheel is also beyond normal use. But, I submit that a well built wheel loaded appropriately to its design should not break any spokes - especially shouldn't break lots of spokes as was mentioned above. Of course this doesn't include accidents or things getting caught in the spokes, cars running over the wheel, etc..
    safe riding - Vik
    VikApproved

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •