I'm looking for a project and decided on building a steel touring bike. I'm a 61 year old woman, and I really do much better with a lighter weight bike. I'm very careful about how much weight I carry with me. That said, does anyone have knowledge about comparable weights of a new Surly LongHaul frame (claimed 5.1 lbs. for a 56cm) verses a mid eighties Miyata 615 or 1000 (May have been the same frame with diff. components). I had a 615 years ago. I recall the bike weighed about 26lbs. stock, but I have no idea what the frame actually weighed. I know the Miyata is a triple butted Cro-moly. I know the Surly is double butted 4130, but I don't know if the difference in weight is measurable or negligible, between them in, say, a 53cm frame. Thanks all that answer this (what difference does it make with panniers on) question.