Machka 

I'm pretty sure he was killed, at least the news reports I heard seemed to indicate that. But I've been looking for the story and can't find it ... so perhaps he didn't.

Machka 

Moose or elk? Moose generally don't frequent areas of heavy population. They tend to be loners off in the wilderness. Although they will wander into populated areas sometime. I saw one this year next to a golf course at the edge of town, but the other one I saw was way out in the middle of nowhere.

Elk, however, are all over the place in Jasper and Banff, and they can be agressive, especially during rutting season or when they have calves.


And as for wolves, I guess the wolf population has increased to the point that they are becoming a nuisance. I've lived in, and have visited, wolf areas for most of my life, but this past winter was the first time I've ever laid eyes on a wolf ... actually a pair of them.

But don't forget about cougars! I saw one of those on a ride in 2005.

NoReg

I'm not worried about moose, I think the period of concern is pretty much limited to the rut. But the big dumb animals can get you if they want to. Deer can easily, kill particularly the elk, red deer, sika clan who are particularly well armed, so don't bug them.

Driving through the great parks opens you up to a lot of incredible behaviour by tourists. I have seen a pile of people out of the car taking pictures of a family of Grizzlies just off the side of the road. That was on the drive from Calgary to Jasper. I rarely make these parks so I imagine the locals are pretty gobsmacked on a regular basis.

I kinda like discussing this stuff, and I am open to views on either side of my own. Overall though I am not much worried when I am out and about. As a reality check, I am always interested in how competent people are in first aid, whether they carry info on allergies, or blood type with them, airway devices and trauma kits, etc... If you're just not that concerned then maybe you aren't really as worried about an attack or generalized bad stuff happening as you think.

OK, I re-read part of that... Hitting moose while driving is a real problem for motorists. They are higher, darker, and much heavier than deer, and tend to enter the compartment. In my NB world we see quite a few of them. Many provincial roads are well designed and have good gavelwork to control swampy land, unfortunately this can result in suculent lillies right next to your lane. But that's a wildlife viewing oportunity for any cyclists who haven't been carried off by the province's dogs.

Erick L

Moose. Not in town either. He got charged across a lake once during winter and made it behind a tree, saving his ass. He works for park Canada and last time I talked to him (a few years ago), he had seen maybe ten times as many bears than moose and got charged only once by a bear, about 10 times by moose.

IdiotMD

While not as immediately dangerous as bears or wolves, moose should be regarded similar to bulls, they are generally docile but they are still 1000+ pound animals. Getting charged by either can lead to grave injury or death.

Here in Anchorage (pop 260k) about a hundred or so moose live year round. The number doubles or triples during winter time as they come down from the mountains.

And to me, a sidearm is a tool with considerations like any other (most any tool is dangerous in the hands of the skilled and determined). To me, it would be like considering carrying along a twenty foot lightning rod in case I get caught in an electrical storm or anti-venom serum in case I get bit by a rattler. If I were heading into cannibal country on a tour though . . .

Big Tommy C

A friend of mine was attacked while riding.

Someone hit her with his car, breaking her leg, and then attempted to drag her into the car with him. She managed to fight him off and he fled the scene.

Could she have employed a handgun in this situation? Possibly. I don't see it being a horrible idea to carry one, though, assuming it's carried properly.

When she rides alone now, she tucks all her hair up under her helmet and hopes that passing drivers don't notice that she's female.

It's awesome that she keeps riding, though.

Gotte

I'm only going off what Guy Grieve wrote in a book I recently read about his recent sojurn in Alaska.

Here's what he says:

"I remembered Dom (a native American friend) telling me that moose killed more men than bears in Alasks, and that if I ever found myself unlucky enough to be chased by a moose which I didn;t want to shoot I should run round a tree. The theory was the moose would get tired, bored and disorientated. It sounded easy but if you slipped or it caught up with you, it would kill you quickly by pummeling you into the ground with its great piston-like legs"

He also says it is legal to kill them if your life is endangered by one. I don;t know, I'm no expert on US animal welfare issues.

Here's the first thing I got about Moose on Google, though.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/diversty/living/moose.htm

Cut to "Moose and People"

Also, you seem to have kind of misunderstood my post. I was postulating that the only place I would consider taking a firearm was in an area where I was in danger of attack. I think the only time that would be a consideration was if I was camping in bear/moose areas in Canada or the US.
I had a friend from here in the UK who was doing just that in Canada a few years ago when, going a short distance from his camp to take a leak, walked right between a bear and its cubs. He had presence of mind, and walked slowly backwards towards his camp. Luckily for him, the bear collected up her cubs and ambled off into the bushes. It makes you realise, though, how vulnerable you can be.
And of course, a handgun, while not "hunting equipment", is portable and would at least give you some chance if charged by bear/moose.

Of course it's highly unlikely that I will be in that situation, so it's all pretty theorectical anyway. But you never know.

Krink

Burns, broken bones, hypothermia, concussions...all must be way more likely than attacks by people and bears. Good point.

Though I suppose if you had a grizzly gnawing on your scalp you might be better off firing a few shots with your puny pistol as opposed to whacking it with a limp ace bandage.

Are there any weight wenies who can recommend a good titanium Glock with the power to drop a kodiak? Or does steel just feel more real and give a smoother ride? Does Rivendell make anything in this category? Maybe a Colt with lugs for that retro look?

Peter, your editing of my "who am I" misplaced it in a self-defense context. I don't necessarily disagree that killing an attacker may be legally justified. But, I was trying to make the point that anyone who carries a gun is a bigger threat than someone who does not. Even we holier-than-them bicylists. Something I've heard cops say is "I worry about shooting the wrong person." I've never heard any gun advocate on this list ever express even the slightest tiny doubt that they might shoot someone or something that they oughtn't.

It's like listening to Dick Cheney trying to talk you into having a few beers and then shooting some quail.

froze

Shooting some Quail? That's just toooo funny.

froze

I thought the story was odd because there was no mention whatsoever about the driver or whether or not the person lived-NOTHING! The moose was so important that the person was forgotten entirely.

Cave

When I think of personal safety while touring I think of
- Helmet
- Safety vest and lights
- Safe riding, get off the road if conditions are unsafe
- Good hydration and sun protection
- Not camping under gum trees (they drop branches)
- Washing hands
- Camping in camp sites or in the bush, not in parking/rest areas
- Keeping brakes and chain and tyres in good nick
- Carrying water, 1st aid kit and mobile phone (even if coverage isn't great).

Niles H.

Just found this, on an older thread:

People who've not been in many places in the U.S., and who have formed their opinions of American crime exclusively from the movies or their European state-controlled media, tend to be ignorant of another fact about American crime: it is highly region-dependent. Outside of several urban areas, crime in the U.S. is very low. 80% of American counties, for example, have no murders at all in a given year. Rates of violent crime generally in these areas are among the lowest ever recorded in the developed world, year after year. Britain, by contrast, is much more urbanized than the U.S., and so urban crime problems tend to be much more prevalent national problems.


This seems like a very useful message. "The U.S." is a broad concept, and it can be misleading. It seems more useful, and more in the interests of safety, to narrow the concept. Some counties and other sub-areas in the U.S. are dangerous; others are way on the other side of the spectrum.

***
The thread touches on some other interesting points as well,

https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=28038

Machka 

The thing is, I highly doubt you could get into Canada with a handgun. You're not allowed to just carry them around here, and even if you did transport one, there are very strict regulations regarding that. If were walked between a bear and her cubs, or were being charged by a moose, you would not have the time to unlock the "secure locking device" load the gun, and fire.

https://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/factsheets/default_e.asp

Instead, your friend did exactly what he should have done in that situation. 9 times out of 10 wildlife will leave you alone if you respect the wildlife ... and get out of their way.

Machka 

VERY good points!! I try to do all of that .... and in addition to the 1st aid kit, I maintain my First Aid Certification. I just got certified again with my Standard First Aid with Level B CPR a few weeks ago. I would strongly recommend ALL cycletourists get their First Aid certification.

Thankfully, so far, I have never had to use anything I know on another person ....... but I've used it on myself! When I crashed up in the middle of nowhere near Lake Eacham (Queensland) and had to cycle 100 miles to civilization with a badly torn up knee ... I used a lot of my First Aid knowledge and most of my first aid kit to do it.

Gotte

Fair enough.

As an asside, do I remember seeing in "Bowling for Columbine" that firearm ownership (I guess in the form of hunting rifles) is actually greater in Canada than in the US? I got the impression that hunting is a pretty popular thing over there. Is that right?

Saintly Loser

Hey, some of us in the US feel the same way. I've lived in New York City all my life, and carrying a gun there is just about totally illegal. There's no way you're getting a permit. So we don't carry guns. Those of us who are law-abiding citizens, anyway.

When I was in my late teens and just beginning to travel around the country, it took me quite a while to get over my reaction to the somewhat casual carrying and displaying of handguns I encountered, especially in the Western states. Your typical New Yorker's reaction to the sight of a handgun is to completely freak out and assume that something really screwed up is going on.

Tom Stormcrowe

Frankly, the only reason I would carry a gun on tour is for shooting food if I was touring in a remote enough area and then it's be a .22 for small game only. It would likely be a backpackers single shot rifle at that.

Machka 

Well, yes ... how else do you get food to eat? But only in season, only with hunting rifles (and similar) or bows, and only with the necessary licences and registrations, or you could be fined or jailed.

Machka 

In addition to getting your first aid certification, I would also recommend taking a bicycle maintenance class (if you don't already know how to do lots of roadside repairs)

Taking care of your health and your bicycle will go a long way to ensuring your personal safety while touring.

coyboy

[QUOTE=Krink] I've never heard any gun advocate on this list ever express even the slightest tiny doubt that they might shoot someone or something that they oughtn't.

QUOTE]

I did in the gun pro/con thread that got moved to P&R. IIRC I said you had to be careful it wasnt just loud kids trying to act tough or a real threat to your life.

Coy Boy

Krink

- Condoms
- Cuervo in those little tour-sized bottles
- An accordion. Scares away the evil-hearted.

ivegotabike

When i embark on my tour i plan to carry 2 tools which would fend off any would be attackers that dont have a gun, hatchet (i can by the way throw hatchets, but thats not the point) and an 8 inch fixed blade knife. Being 6 foot 2 i would be fairly intimidating with a hatchet and a knife in hand. If i ever came across anyone who that wouldnt scare off, i would be SOL gun or not.

coyboy

not trying to descriminate against age but a 64 year old woman might be safer than say a 25 yr old one. Sounds like she had a lot of spunk though.

Gotte

Grow it?

coyboy

I'm slow...but not that slow...LOL of course one advantage of riding through the county side. see a nice garden. Stop and ask for a nice ripe mater. If they dont oblige, pull the hog leg on them...