Braking Power
05-22-07, 01:29 PM
#26
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,355
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6215 Post(s)
Liked 4,213 Times
in
2,362 Posts
Originally Posted by Nigeyy
Well here is another vote in agreement.....
Though I might disagree a bit with your statement about mtbs and disc brakes (where I think discs are just really really nice to have and can make a noticeable difference to riding -or at least in my case) discs aren't necessary on touring bikes. Having said that, I really wanted a touring bike with discs, so I went for it.
Do I prefer discs on a touring bike? A big yes. Are they necessary? Absolutely not. Would I remove the discs from my tourer? Definitely not! But here's the kicker: knowing what I know now, and given the expense of the discs, would I get them again? Well.... if I was short on budget, there is not a shadow of a doubt I would not. They are a luxury and a really nice to have piece of equipment, but not vital. Only if the budget is no factor would I recommend them or if a good disc brake cost about the same as a good non-disc brake.
I fully agree that for many many years people have more than adequately used non-disc brakes for touring. I also think a nice comparison to this statement is that for many years people toured without index shifting, so index shifting isn't really necessary -just a really nice to have feature. Actually, thinking about it, I think the difference between index and non-index shifting is more noticeable than the difference between a good non-disc brake to a good disc brake, but hopefully you can see my point.
Though I might disagree a bit with your statement about mtbs and disc brakes (where I think discs are just really really nice to have and can make a noticeable difference to riding -or at least in my case) discs aren't necessary on touring bikes. Having said that, I really wanted a touring bike with discs, so I went for it.
Do I prefer discs on a touring bike? A big yes. Are they necessary? Absolutely not. Would I remove the discs from my tourer? Definitely not! But here's the kicker: knowing what I know now, and given the expense of the discs, would I get them again? Well.... if I was short on budget, there is not a shadow of a doubt I would not. They are a luxury and a really nice to have piece of equipment, but not vital. Only if the budget is no factor would I recommend them or if a good disc brake cost about the same as a good non-disc brake.
I fully agree that for many many years people have more than adequately used non-disc brakes for touring. I also think a nice comparison to this statement is that for many years people toured without index shifting, so index shifting isn't really necessary -just a really nice to have feature. Actually, thinking about it, I think the difference between index and non-index shifting is more noticeable than the difference between a good non-disc brake to a good disc brake, but hopefully you can see my point.
The problems I see with discs are that they don't play well with others (lever/brake compatibility issues) and they take up a lot of valuable real estate (dropout/rack/caliper issues).
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
05-22-07, 01:30 PM
#27
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,115
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
1 Post
For drop handlebars and road levers, the way I see it is that if you do a full circuit of the replies you find someone who has had crappy performance with every known brake system. These include non-idiot mechanically inclined people. What is wrong with this picture? I think we have the wrong question: What is the best brake by model or type. That's the wrong question unless it's absolutely specific to the exact forks and parts the other person is using. What needs to be known is that all these systems are custom made one offs, and none of them are perfect.
For instance, I don't know about you but "didn't work in the rain, works great around city without a load", is my definition of a failed system. My touring bike does not stop as well as my mountain bike, and so far I have spent about what I spent on the MTB on just the brakes for the touring bike.
The simple way out of this problem should be to ape known systems: You want to set up an LHT frame, use the stuff they use on their complete bike, or worst case something with the same geometry. The other simple way is to use flat bars and MTB levers and brakes, though I ride drops so that is out.
For instance, I don't know about you but "didn't work in the rain, works great around city without a load", is my definition of a failed system. My touring bike does not stop as well as my mountain bike, and so far I have spent about what I spent on the MTB on just the brakes for the touring bike.
The simple way out of this problem should be to ape known systems: You want to set up an LHT frame, use the stuff they use on their complete bike, or worst case something with the same geometry. The other simple way is to use flat bars and MTB levers and brakes, though I ride drops so that is out.
05-22-07, 03:14 PM
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 584
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by cyccommute
The problems I see with discs are that they don't play well with others (lever/brake compatibility issues) and they take up a lot of valuable real estate (dropout/rack/caliper issues).
05-22-07, 06:59 PM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 818
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Likewise, when I had Shimano STIs on my tourer, I had no problem (of course the disc brakes were Avid *road* disc brakes).
Honestly, with the exception of the Avid mech discs being a little porky, I'm pretty sold on their efficiency and performance, and definitely don't feel like a test bed (10 or so years ago, I would have been reticent to get disc brakes though). And while disc brakes do take up real estate, I've found it's very easy to work around them. My tourer with discs lives quite happily with front and rear fenders and racks with no problem.
Honestly, with the exception of the Avid mech discs being a little porky, I'm pretty sold on their efficiency and performance, and definitely don't feel like a test bed (10 or so years ago, I would have been reticent to get disc brakes though). And while disc brakes do take up real estate, I've found it's very easy to work around them. My tourer with discs lives quite happily with front and rear fenders and racks with no problem.
Originally Posted by greenstork
I run my Shimano road discs with Campy levers and they work perfectly. Both Avid and Shimano have a disc brake that works with brifters and anything else you want to use. However, I can't disagree about the real estate, it's a big issue for commuting and touring bikes that need the space available for racks and fenders.
05-22-07, 07:13 PM
#31
kipuka explorer
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hilo Town, East Hawai'i
Posts: 3,297
Bikes: 1994 Trek 820, 2004 Fuji Absolute, 2005 Jamis Nova, 1977 Schwinn Scrambler 36/36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by andypants
I have discs on my touing bike and love them. The stopping power in any consition is excellent. There is more knowledge required to maintain and adjust them correctly, moreso than traditional rim brakes.
__________________
--
-=- '05 Jamis Nova -=- '04 Fuji Absolute -=- '94 Trek 820 -=- '77 Schwinn Scrambler 36/36 -=-
Friends don't let friends use brifters.
--
-=- '05 Jamis Nova -=- '04 Fuji Absolute -=- '94 Trek 820 -=- '77 Schwinn Scrambler 36/36 -=-
Friends don't let friends use brifters.
05-22-07, 08:07 PM
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 757
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by bkrownd
Heh, that's an odd thought, because my rim brakes always put up a hell of a struggle before I can get the pad alignment correct, and then it needs to be re-aligned every month or two or even sooner if you get some junk impacted into the pads. So fed up with those things... Then there's the grooves they gouge into the rims in a couple years. Every time it rains, more rocks impacted into the pads, digging troughs into the rims.
Amen! I've had so many issues with V-brakes and cantilevers that constantly move around and have to be re-adjusted or start squealing and won't stop whether they are flat, toed-in, reverse toed, etc. My mountain bike has Avid BB7s and they require very little adjustment and when they do need it, it is way eaiser than rim brakes. The pads seemed to last a long time as well. I also used to experience brake fade on fast downhills with V-brakes - no problem with the BB7s. Are they necessary? No. But they are definitely superior to rim brakes. My only issue with them is that the road version requires the calipers to be adjusted perilously close to the rotor which makes them a bit more finicky than the mountain version.
