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  1. #1
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    LHT vs. Kogswell...

    I started a thread over at the commuting forum, but I'd like input from here too. Thanks!

    M

    LHT vs. Kogswell...

  2. #2
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    I think Marqueemoon hit the ride expectations about right. And based on that, while there are people who choose the PR 90% for touring, and those who choose the LHT 90% for comuting... The real intended service is that the LHT is a tourer, and the PR is more a city bike.

    The PR frame pakage is a lot more exciting. I would want to just buy it for the fun value, it might be a little pretty for the beater role. There are people who prefer the kind of ride the PR offers for touring too. In fact a lot of the bikes that are now being superceeded had the tighter rear ends, and so forth.

    Unfortunately the PR front end choices seem to empower hay bale carrying and not the evolution of a modern tourer. From what I recall it ends up with standard geometry given that the head tube can't be angled to retain touring trail. That isn't a point against, but it isn't a point up either. I hope I remeber that point correctly I find getitng around the K site a changing experience.

    If it was my choice I would decide first which use is the higher priority. I would tend to favour touring because even if I was riding every day, comutes tend not to be too heroic. One figures out the drill, gets the skills required to do the same route over and over again. There is a big difference between what is required to remain comfortable for an hour or two day by day, and 10 hours day by day.

    My choice would in part be driven by the wheel choice. I think the 26 has the edge, but a person might prefer a 700. Depending on the frame size I would seek out the one that would allow me to run my wheel choice and then assess from that point. I wouldn't tour on a 650b, unless there is a decent folding tire, and most of my touring was fairly civilized. I would check whether the tire cost was greater with 650b, for a comuter, though I don't know that would sway me either way.

    Finally while I love the PR package, I don't really get the whole I want a grocery delivery bike vibe. I wish it had been possible to take all that genius and push out a pure touring bike.

  3. #3
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    I agree wholely. The LHT seems to speak to what I want and need from a practical point of view, but the Kogswell touches the "Jesus, that thing is cool" nerve. It doesn't help that the LHT comes in the ugliest blue known to man. Oh well, still conflicted.

    M

  4. #4
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    I stand corrected on the color. I saw a bad pic. I actually like that blue.

    M

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyemgh View Post
    I stand corrected on the color. I saw a bad pic. I actually like that blue.

    M
    My 06 LHT is a splendid black cherry pearl, not blue. I rode it for 9 months as a commuter, now have gone to an Xtracycle on an old MTB frame for my 8-mile RT commute and use the Surly as a recreational vehicle for longer rides. Have not toured on the LHT but can tell you my experience with the bike has only been positive. No Kogswell around for me to try.

    CentexWoody
    centexwoody
    They're beautiful handsome machines that translate energy into joy.

  6. #6
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    Well, as much as I like the Kogswell, I pushed the button on an LHT frame and fork today. First, my LBS gave me a nice deal and I like keeping my money in town. Next, I didn't want to have different sized tires than my son in case we overnight together. Last, and not an insignificant least, I called Kogswell and didn't get a call back. As much as I like supporting new companies with good ideas, I just didn't know if I'd ever hear back, so I went LHT. Thanks for the advice! (Sorry, Matt).

    M

  7. #7
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    Maybe Matt had a lot to do when you called him. He sure responded to my e-mail quickly enough

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    Maybe calling was the wrong thing? What I do know though is that with a push of a button, I've got a frame on its way from QBP. I think some day soon Kogswell will be a big player. Their stuff is just too cool. For now though they've got the service cart ahead of the horse.

    M

  9. #9
    Woof! venturi95's Avatar
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    I don't want to throw a wet blanket on the Kogswell party, but isn't the whole point of touring (for most of here in the U.S.) to get as far away as possible from metropolitan centers that might sell 650 b tires?

  10. #10
    Matthew Grimm / Flunky Kogswell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by venturi95 View Post
    I don't want to throw a wet blanket on the Kogswell party, but isn't the whole point of touring (for most of here in the U.S.) to get as far away as possible from metropolitan centers that might sell 650 b tires?
    We offer the 59cm P/R in 559, 584/590 and 622 wheel sizes.

    And the 590 (650A) tire is still the easiest tire to find in the USA. Not good 590s, but usable 590s.

    If you want to find a good 590, we sell them. Which leads us to the discussion of the nature of quality bicycle tire distribution in the US: its spotty at best. Bicycle shops try to carry a wide variety of good tires. And they do pretty well. But what we've heard from most people (and in our own experience) is that we're all pretty particular about the tires we use and most of us purchase tires from catalogs.

    The only time we buy a tire on the road is in the case of emergencies.

    And if you look at all the sources for tires in all the places in the US where you might shop during emergencies, you'll find that availability, from easiest to most difficult, is ranked like this:

    406 - 20"
    590 - 650A - 26 x 1 3/8
    559 - 26" - MTB
    630 - 27"
    622 - 700C

    (I make it a habit to look at bicycle tires when I'm in stores that sell them.)

    So if you're planning on being in the middle of South Dakota the next time a tire that you're using disintegrates, you'd better off using 26" rather than 700C.

    And if you need a 650B tire, I'll overnight one to you - every berg in America has mail delivery, even if it doesn't have any tires for sale.

  11. #11
    cyclopath vik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by venturi95 View Post
    I don't want to throw a wet blanket on the Kogswell party, but isn't the whole point of touring (for most of here in the U.S.) to get as far away as possible from metropolitan centers that might sell 650 b tires?
    Edit: Kogswell post the PR info above while I was typing my msg so ignore my uncertainty below about PR wheel sizes and take it from The Source...=-)

    I agree and I wouldn't buy a 650B bike for any purpose, but worst case if you are in the US or Canada is having to pick up the phone and get something couriered to you. I'm sure if you are running 650B you'll have suppliers of tires/parts memorized!

    As a bonus QBP supports 650B so any LBS can order in 650B stuff if you can stomach the wait. Mail order would be much faster if you pay for expedited delivery.

    As a note Kogswell is now offering the PR frame in either 26" or 700C [can't recall] in one size [ 59 comes to mind]. I have the feeling that trend will continue so you'll be able to get a PR with a standard size wheel soon. - which is awesome! 650B is fun and useful if you want to rock the the retro style, but you can't argue with the advantages of the ubiquitous sized wheels in 26" & 700c for touring.
    safe riding - Vik
    VikApproved

  12. #12
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    The 26 is the best way to go, but you sure won't find a decent tire most of the time. So I carry a folding tire, or use a wire bead tire as a rack hold down. That way the tire issue may be somewhat moot, though I hear scarry things about throns in some parts of the US.

    When we talk about a Kogswell in 26, is that a whole separate package. DIfferent fork(s), different frame, different fenders?

  13. #13
    Matthew Grimm / Flunky Kogswell's Avatar
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    When I judge the 26" vs 650A/B, I have a tough time making a ruling.

    26" is a great wheel size. A proper single-speed 559 bike can be awesome, the last couple of weeks on a 26" P/R with 1.75" Paselas has been a very good thing, and for frames sizes under 50cm 26" wins no contest.

    But 650A/B is good too. The wheels ride like 700Cs, but without the fender/toe interference.

    There are reasons why we made a 26" version. Lots of folks want them. And those of us who have been deeply entrenched in the -lower-wheel-flop- geometry renaissance have wondered how it would work with 26" wheels (since it has never been done).

    So, yeah, the jury is deliberating.

  14. #14
    Matthew Grimm / Flunky Kogswell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peterpan1 View Post
    The 26 is the best way to go, but you sure won't find a decent tire most of the time. So I carry a folding tire, or use a wire bead tire as a rack hold down. That way the tire issue may be somewhat moot, though I hear scarry things about throns in some parts of the US.

    When we talk about a Kogswell in 26, is that a whole separate package. DIfferent fork(s), different frame, different fenders?
    Walmart sells a couple of pretty nice 26" tires. (And a pretty nice 650A tire too).

    And the 26" P/R is mostly a different package: lower BB shell, two 26" forks, different canti positioning, same fenders (50mm, alloy).
    Last edited by Kogswell; 09-09-07 at 07:00 PM.

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