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Old 10-01-07, 04:50 PM   #1
wll
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Velocity Dyad's - 36, 40 or 48

I'm selling my two Specialized comfort bikes, I've had 'em less than a few months and have outgrown them :-)

Decided to build a Surly Cross-check (could change to a LHT in the last moment) and putting together components, brooks saddle, Ultegra, Paul, etc, etc, but was wondering what spoke count would you go with ? (BTW I just priced things out and this is an expensive project that will take a while)

This will be kinda like a survival type bike, not a real touring although it will have a rack in the back and fenders. Have not decided on the shape of the handlebars, but decided on canti breaks because they are bullet proof.

Anyway, would you get the same # of spokes in the front as the rear or maybe 36 front, 40 rear, and what type of spoke would you get, a double butted or straight ?

wll
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Old 10-01-07, 05:07 PM   #2
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You can easily get replacement 36 hole rims, so that is my choice. DB spokes for fatigue resistance.
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Old 10-01-07, 05:23 PM   #3
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What do you mean by "survival bike"?
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Old 10-01-07, 06:01 PM   #4
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I mean a tough, not going to break down, a bike that I could count on to get me from point A to B without failure.

No real long trips but 40 to ? miles a day for a few days is possible, rough roads (not mountain bike stuff, but rough roads). Needs to stand up to the elements if I have a few rainy days.

A bike that I can put a medium pack on and it wont fail under the load.

Looking for parts that will last (if I do my part and take care of them). Not looking for "state of the art", looking for rugged and tough.

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Old 10-01-07, 11:17 PM   #5
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"I mean a tough, not going to break down, a bike that I could count on to get me from point A to B without failure.

No real long trips but 40 to ? miles a day for a few days is possible, rough roads (not mountain bike stuff, but rough roads). Needs to stand up to the elements if I have a few rainy days.

A bike that I can put a medium pack on and it wont fail under the load."

The reality is any half decent steel frame can deal with that. LHTs, etc... are really about the formating not the durability. I doubt very much the LHT is any stronger than the average pre-suspension MTB, it's just a better format for loaded touring.

You can do whatever you want on wheels. One of the more positive things is go 26" if you frame choice allows. Stronger wheel size. More spokes does help, but it is the last thing on the list when it comes to wheels.

My eye opener on spokes came when I stumbled over a tech discusion in which wheel expert Brandt, said you should never throw out your spokes. Apparently rims and tires come and go, but all spokes, once properly broken in, and any weakilings sorted out, are basically a lifetime deal. This was not always the case, but current manufacture in better brands is up to it. So while merits can be argued for various preferences. You really aren't getting a longer lasting spoke in a DB than a straight, while a staight can be stronger in spoke in the wheel situations. you can also use different gages or DB and straight to build tougher wheels. I would go straight 14 gage for what you describe.

I think any time you have the option, go to at least 40 spokes in 700c, but you shouldn't be able to break a 36 spoke cross 3 in that size under the conditions you describe no mater what. Remember you may be required to get some pricey hubs, both to keep up with the overall concept, or just to get the necesarry holes in a 40 or 48.
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Old 10-03-07, 10:19 AM   #6
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I use a dyad rim 40 hole rear 36 front.

im a clyde and the set up has held up quite well, had the set for 3 years now.

"John"
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Old 10-04-07, 08:18 PM   #7
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If you're carrying a "medium" load and aren't too heavy, travelling on roads/tracks, do you need exotic wheels?

36h 700c and 32h 26" are pretty widely available and if well-built should be strong.

Have you considered speaking to a specialist wheelbuilder (Peter White seems to be the name that comes up in the US but I'm sure he's not the only one in a country of 280 million!) about recommendations/costs/bike build/loads/compatibility/replacability.

If you want a last-forever bike then being able to replace or repair components is as important as initial strength, because things wear out; even if your dream build will carry any load over any ground, it will only do it for 10-20,000 miles before you need to replace bearings/rims/whatever.

The more exotic you go, the harder it will be to find appropriate replacement parts - how common are single-spaced 40-48h hubs or rims in your average sports shop in a small-medium sized town? If you have well-built 32 or 36h 26" with good tyres you're unlikely to break them and can replace individual components instead of the whole wheelset.

Maybe I'm reading too much into your "survival bike" comment and you'd be happy to use mail order / internet / bike shops as required, in which case go ahead and get you "ultimate" setup, but consider the above if you want to be able to keep your bike running without access to rare parts.

BTW consider a front rack/platform or bar bag as well as rear, some setups aren't too heavy and it's nice to have at least some gear at the front for access, even if spreading the weight around isn't required.
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Old 10-05-07, 03:10 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cave View Post
If you're carrying a "medium" load and aren't too heavy, traveling on roads/tracks, do you need exotic wheels?

36h 700c and 32h 26" are pretty widely available and if well-built should be strong.

Have you considered speaking to a specialist wheel builder (Peter White seems to be the name that comes up in the US but I'm sure he's not the only one in a country of 280 million!) about recommendations/costs/bike build/loads/compatibility/replacability.

If you want a last-forever bike then being able to replace or repair components is as important as initial strength, because things wear out; even if your dream build will carry any load over any ground, it will only do it for 10-20,000 miles before you need to replace bearings/rims/whatever.

The more exotic you go, the harder it will be to find appropriate replacement parts - how common are single-spaced 40-48h hubs or rims in your average sports shop in a small-medium sized town? If you have well-built 32 or 36h 26" with good tyres you're unlikely to break them and can replace individual components instead of the whole wheelset.

Maybe I'm reading too much into your "survival bike" comment and you'd be happy to use mail order / internet / bike shops as required, in which case go ahead and get you "ultimate" setup, but consider the above if you want to be able to keep your bike running without access to rare parts.

BTW consider a front rack/platform or bar bag as well as rear, some setups aren't too heavy and it's nice to have at least some gear at the front for access, even if spreading the weight around isn't required.
Cave,

Yes, one thing I do want is standardized parts, but the wheel may be a different matter. I want strong, I'm looking at the pothole I hit and a wheel that does not fail. 36h may be what I get, but I'm looking at 40h as an option also. I have a very good wheel builder very close to my home who works at my LBS.

Not sure if this will go on a LHT or a CrossCheck. Don't plan on long trips, just want a go anywhere tough bike. Will gear it like a touring bike so up hills are not a problem, will have a dedicated rack on the back and a pack that lock in place (forget the name). pack will carry a few tools, extra tire, tube, light, and enough room for a little food and a first aid kit. Bike will be also equipped with fenders and a Brooks or ? seat.

Will check out the tire situation but will probably go with 28's or 32's, will go with the best puncture resistant and gripping tire I can find, also thorn resistant tubes.

Will be set up for day or night riding. Don't see me riding more that 40-85 miles or so round trip. This is basically a heavy duty commuter.


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Old 10-05-07, 10:00 PM   #9
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I don't know why but the 40s and 48s seem more like 35 mm stuff. If you are running narrow road touring tires then normally you aren't going the kinds of places that would blow up a wheel.

My approach to getting good standardization and strength is to go something like a 40 on a 26", and then if the wheel actually breaks, just switch in any 26" wheel you run across. The chance of a well made wheel sensibly riden blowing is nearly nill. But if it did you can keep going on any MTB wheel you come across. Just strip the hub and tuck it carefully in your pack and keep going.
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