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New Whacked-Out Bruce Gordon- advice needed

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Old 12-22-07, 01:52 PM
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New Whacked-Out Bruce Gordon- advice needed

Ok, so I bought that wacky 63 cm Bruce Gordon that was on Ebay.

https://cgi.ebay.com/Bruce-Gordon-lug...QQcmdZViewItem
I am looking for advice on the most cost-effective way to get this thing ready for loaded touring.

My thoughts were:
- a set of 40 or 48 spoke wheels (I'm 6'3" 280)...my thought was velocity dyad laced to...? I don't want to fork over for Phil Wood...how about good ol XT hubs?
- Need to get the gearing way lower. Is it possible to add a granny gear to a Dura Ace Triple of that vintage? Or should I replace all the front chainrings
- Any suggestions for rear gearing?
- What about the brakes? Are those up to the task of me plus 60lbs of gear? Replace with Cantis?

What have I missed? I have a lovely Brooks B-66 that will be my throne...any other recommendations?

Do you think I could make little tables out of the current wheels?

Thanks so much--

moog
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Old 12-22-07, 02:08 PM
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You're right...thats a strange set up. Time trial wheels, Dura-Ace and road gearing, on a custom dedicated touring frame.

Except for barcon's the word touring and Dura-Ace don't go together.

Put new wheels on it. Rocky Mountain Cyclery has some decent XT/Mavic combinations that are a great deal, IMHO, on Ebay. The spoke set up could be better, but tighten them and true them and they'll work for yo.

Change the rear gearing (XT or LX) to an 12-32 or 11-34. You'll also need a long cage derailler. See if you can live with that since it already has triple Dura-Ace up front.

Does it even have studs for cantilver brakes? If not, I'd just stick with the brakes that are on it.

You can probably do all the above for $300 or so and have a really nice rig.
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Old 12-22-07, 02:18 PM
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Very cool. Thanks.

Do you think it is worth the money to actually change to barcons...I'm not going to be doing any serious long-term tours. Probably 3-4 days max. My thought was to just replace the brifters when they break.

I don't have the bike in hand yet, so I don't know about canti studs. For that matter, I don't know the front and rear dropout spacing yet, either. So I'm going to wait on wheels until I know the specifics.

I have seen those wheels on Ebay from when I was considering getting a set of touring wheels for my Bianchi Axis. Good to know they are decent. They are one heck of a good deal, especially the forty-spoke ones.

In a related question, are there any online sites that let you custom choose all the options for a wheelset...and have high spoke-count hubs/rims? I have not found any. I just want to get an idea pricing.
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Old 12-22-07, 06:58 PM
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I have a Bruce Gordon BLT that I received from the Masters' hands personally. That rear rack on the bike is one of his. Maybe the front rack too. You got a real bargain. Try going to his site, www.bgcycles.com, look at the specs for his touring bikes. Anything less will be a compromise.
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Old 12-22-07, 08:49 PM
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Be sure to update us with some before and after pictures. Got a feeling that will be one nice bike.
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Old 12-22-07, 09:28 PM
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Very cool bike. I'd keep the DA shifters and FD, get new wheels, cassette/chain, rear derailer (LX or better) and maybe crankset. I have and new LX trekking crankset (octalink, 175 crank arms) that would look great on that bike. PM if you wish to work out a trade....

Relax, buying on EBAY isn't easy but you have landed a really nice bike.

The folks on this board will help you set it up for touring---

Tacomee
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Old 12-22-07, 10:31 PM
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The reason people don't use Dura Ace stuff on touring bikes is cost and nothing else. Leave your STI shifters, and front derailleur on. see if you can find an old regular rise XTR rear derailleur and you will have a sweet shifting durable bike. Don't worry about having the best stuff money can buy!!!
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Old 12-22-07, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by tacomee
Very cool bike. I'd keep the DA shifters and FD, get new wheels, cassette/chain, rear derailer (LX or better) and maybe crankset. I have and new LX trekking crankset (octalink, 175 crank arms) that would look great on that bike. PM if you wish to work out a trade....

Tacomee

I think Nashbar had a deal on LX Trekking crank for $50 or so, provided it will match your bottom bracket. Remember also that if you change to a smaller geared "mountain" crankset, such as LX or XT, and start mixing "mountain" and "road" parts on the FD, crank, and shifters you can run into some problems and things don't shift correctly.
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Old 12-23-07, 09:02 AM
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It will really be a nice bike with proper wheels and gearing. Brakes, shifters, front deraileur, etc. are all fine IMO.

I would change the wheels, rear cluster (something with a 32 or a 34), and crank. If you won't be touring in the mountains the crank might suffice, but I would suggest getting one that takes smaller inner rings (at least 24 if not smaller)

The shifters are awesome, don't let anyone talk you into barcons unless you have a personal preference for them for some reason. The STI shifters are plenty reliable and so much nicer and more convenient. If you will be doing extended touring in third world countries and are paranoid about the repairability of the shifters you can always carry a set of downtube shifters as a spare. Otherwise use them and enjoy.

Last edited by staehpj1; 12-23-07 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 12-23-07, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Monoborracho
I think Nashbar had a deal on LX Trekking crank for $50 or so, provided it will match your bottom bracket.
The BB spline interface for the Dura-Ace cranks is different than the LX. The Dura-Ace is V1 while the LX is V2. https://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_n-o.html#octalink

Originally Posted by Monoborracho
Remember also that if you change to a smaller geared "mountain" crankset, such as LX or XT, and start mixing "mountain" and "road" parts on the FD, crank, and shifters you can run into some problems and things don't shift correctly.
+1 If you go to a touring or compact triple on the front, the existing FD will probably work, but you'd get optimal shifting from a compatible FD with the cage contoured to a smaller outer ring. The shifters should work, though, as only pre-1997 Dura-Ace stuff had some funky configurations that were only Dura-Ace component compatible.

The good news is that you could sell or trade any of those components for more 'touring specific' stuff and end up on the plu$ side of things.

I'm curious about those wheels, too. Don't just chuck them. I know the seller states they are out of true, but the bit about not being able to adjust the brakes properly suggests he/she isn't exactly an expert in mechanics. Have them looked at by someone in the know, because you could sell them for a tidy little profit if they're in okay shape.
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Old 12-23-07, 10:24 AM
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Moog - you are a brave person. That's a lot of cash for such an odd bike. I'm hoping you made a great choice. Keep us posted on your progress. I love reading posts about used bikes brought back to life. I've done a couple of project bikes myself. It's rewarding when they come out right. Good luck, and here's hoping you post some pictures when it's finished.
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Old 12-23-07, 10:39 AM
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The toughest fix on this bike is the brakes. From the ebay photos, I cant see studs for cantilever / V-brakes. Caliper brakes are not very good for touring, no room for fenders or wide tires, poor loaded bike braking power. Not sure the solution, can disc brakes be added with the new wheels????
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Old 12-23-07, 11:23 AM
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Thanks to all. Let me read through your posts and I'll respond in turn.

I did figure that this could end up being a heck of a deal- this is a custom BG, I think (lugged). I could not touch one for three times the price I paid.
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Old 12-23-07, 11:25 AM
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Thanks Ken. The seller did say that both of the racks are of BG provenance.
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Old 12-23-07, 11:26 AM
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Thanks. Let me think about your offer.



Originally Posted by tacomee
Very cool bike. I'd keep the DA shifters and FD, get new wheels, cassette/chain, rear derailer (LX or better) and maybe crankset. I have and new LX trekking crankset (octalink, 175 crank arms) that would look great on that bike. PM if you wish to work out a trade....

Relax, buying on EBAY isn't easy but you have landed a really nice bike.

The folks on this board will help you set it up for touring---

Tacomee
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Old 12-23-07, 11:29 AM
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This is great info. Could you please recommend which triple and FD you would pick?

As for those wheels- I thought that carbon trispoke wheels did not go out of true! I wonder. We'll see.


Originally Posted by JunkYardBike
The BB spline interface for the Dura-Ace cranks is different than the LX. The Dura-Ace is V1 while the LX is V2. https://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_n-o.html#octalink



+1 If you go to a touring or compact triple on the front, the existing FD will probably work, but you'd get optimal shifting from a compatible FD with the cage contoured to a smaller outer ring. The shifters should work, though, as only pre-1997 Dura-Ace stuff had some funky configurations that were only Dura-Ace component compatible.

The good news is that you could sell or trade any of those components for more 'touring specific' stuff and end up on the plu$ side of things.

I'm curious about those wheels, too. Don't just chuck them. I know the seller states they are out of true, but the bit about not being able to adjust the brakes properly suggests he/she isn't exactly an expert in mechanics. Have them looked at by someone in the know, because you could sell them for a tidy little profit if they're in okay shape.
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Old 12-23-07, 11:31 AM
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Thanks. The brake situation worries me, too. I do not think that I want to go for front discs b/c you really need a fork designed for discs.

Can anyone recommend a shop near Washington D.C. who you would trust to put canti posts on this bike?


Originally Posted by gregw
The toughest fix on this bike is the brakes. From the ebay photos, I cant see studs for cantilever / V-brakes. Caliper brakes are not very good for touring, no room for fenders or wide tires, poor loaded bike braking power. Not sure the solution, can disc brakes be added with the new wheels????
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Old 12-23-07, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by gregw
Caliper brakes are not very good for touring, no room for fenders or wide tires, poor loaded bike braking power.
I would question this at least a bit. I am not sure what the brakes on this bike are like, but I have some very old Dura-Ace brakes on a bike that I own that have ample room for larger tires and fenders. The currently have 27" X 1-1/4" but have LOTS of extra room. They work reasonably well too.

There were lots of brakes that would mount and also have plenty of room in the 70's. So if all else fails there are lots of suitable brakes that were made in the 70's. You might even find some new old stock in either a nice side or center pull.
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Old 12-23-07, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by staehpj1
I would question this at least a bit. I am not sure what the brakes on this bike are like, but I have some very old Dura-Ace brakes on a bike that I own that have ample room for larger tires and fenders. The currently have 27" X 1-1/4" but have LOTS of extra room. They work reasonably well too.

There were lots of brakes that would mount and also have plenty of room in the 70's. So if all else fails there are lots of suitable brakes that were made in the 70's. You might even find some new old stock in either a nice side or center pull.

They are Dura-ace caliper brakes, I have theses same ones on my road bike, 700 x 23's are a tight fit. The stopping power is just OK, of course this is no weight other than me. They would have a hard time stopping a loaded touring bike.

But you are very right about the Dura-ace shifters, mine have over 30,000 miles on them, original cables no problems. They even survived a bad wreck that smashed the tops in, still work fine.
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Old 12-23-07, 12:03 PM
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Graeme Obree called, he wants his wheels back.

Seriously, look for a local frame builder to add canti studs. Touching up the paint after doing that might be the hard part. I'd get it powdercoated and be done with it, but that would affect the resale value if that matters to you. Also, I'd strip the parts and flip them back on ebay to help fund a sensible setup.

Check with your local bike shops about custom framebuilders in your area. There's this guy: https://www.palermobicycles.com/. I haven't seen any of his work so I can't vouch for it. I know there's another guy in the area whose name I can't remember. I've seen his work, though. Very nice. Something like "Holland", but that's not it.
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Old 12-23-07, 12:10 PM
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Dual pivot side pull brakes should solve any braking problem on this bike.

https://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=22

https://www.hiawathacyclery.com/cart/...roducts_id=192
Dual Pivot Sidepull
The dual pivot brake achieves both greater leverage and the ability to work with smaller pad-to-rim clearance by its improved centering. It achieves this by using two pivot points to define a line of action about which its two arms are constrained to move equally, meaning they remain centered. This feature is essential in reducing the pad-to-rim clearance needed for a higher mechanical advantages of about 5.6:1. Greater leverage also required compromise. The offset arm (the short one) sweeps its pad upward into the tire so that its pad position must be adjusted as it wears. Also, the brake cannot track a crooked wheel with, for instance, a broken spoke, and because it has a high ratio, it works poorly, if at all, when the quick release is accidentally left open. And finally, it runs out of hand lever travel 40% faster with pad wear than the former single pivot brake. Low pad clearance and narrow flange spacing of current rear wheels make this brake drag when climbing hills standing. In response, racers often climb with the rear quick release open... and on occasion, fail to close it after reaching the summit.
Part of the light feel of the dual pivot brake arises from the lower (reverse) ratio of the caliper, whose springs do not exert as strong a return force on the cable. With this lower force, a return spring has been added to the hand lever to give the desired return force but with lower cable tension during free motion of the brake (before making contact with the rim). This makes the brake FEEL even more forceful than it is because it has such a light free motion.
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Old 12-23-07, 12:22 PM
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Wow. Thanks for this great advice. I didn't even know such a brake existed!


Originally Posted by arctos
Dual pivot side pull brakes should solve any braking problem on this bike.

https://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=22

https://www.hiawathacyclery.com/cart/...roducts_id=192
Dual Pivot Sidepull
The dual pivot brake achieves both greater leverage and the ability to work with smaller pad-to-rim clearance by its improved centering. It achieves this by using two pivot points to define a line of action about which its two arms are constrained to move equally, meaning they remain centered. This feature is essential in reducing the pad-to-rim clearance needed for a higher mechanical advantages of about 5.6:1. Greater leverage also required compromise. The offset arm (the short one) sweeps its pad upward into the tire so that its pad position must be adjusted as it wears. Also, the brake cannot track a crooked wheel with, for instance, a broken spoke, and because it has a high ratio, it works poorly, if at all, when the quick release is accidentally left open. And finally, it runs out of hand lever travel 40% faster with pad wear than the former single pivot brake. Low pad clearance and narrow flange spacing of current rear wheels make this brake drag when climbing hills standing. In response, racers often climb with the rear quick release open... and on occasion, fail to close it after reaching the summit.
Part of the light feel of the dual pivot brake arises from the lower (reverse) ratio of the caliper, whose springs do not exert as strong a return force on the cable. With this lower force, a return spring has been added to the hand lever to give the desired return force but with lower cable tension during free motion of the brake (before making contact with the rim). This makes the brake FEEL even more forceful than it is because it has such a light free motion.
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Old 12-23-07, 01:07 PM
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i've seen tom palermo's work, and it looks really good. I think he has relocated to Baltimore, though.
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Old 12-23-07, 01:12 PM
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Or try some classics like Weinmann or Mafac centerpulls:
https://sacramento.craigslist.org/bik/513176034.html
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Old 12-23-07, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by moogjuke
This is great info. Could you please recommend which triple and FD you would pick?

As for those wheels- I thought that carbon trispoke wheels did not go out of true! I wonder. We'll see.
Actually, if you are only planning short tours, without too much gear to carry, I'd stick with your current setup and see how it goes. If you will be riding in very hilly areas, or you know you need lower gearing, I'd go with a Shimano LX or XT crankset with 44/32/22. Or, because you would need to swap out your bottom bracket anyway, you might consider going with a Sugino XD crankset with 46/36/26 gearing. All depends on your needs and preferences.

Any of the current MTB front derailleurs would work with those cranks, such as the LX or XT. For something less bulky, you can find older NOS XT derailleurs on ebay for good prices - they also look much better in my opinion.
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