snusmumriken

My story: December 1st I landed in Lyon, with the intention to settle there. I chose Lyon almost at random; I like trying new things, without planning too much (and I guess my idea of "too much" is really very little). During my first three weeks there, I sadly didn't have much success in finding a place to live. My dad hadn't seen me for a long time (working abroad), and he happens to have a lot of money, so he ordered for me a plane ticket to my home town in Norway, so that I could spend Christmas with my family. I am in Norway now, but I have a returning plane ticket in a few days, and to be quite honest, I am getting fed up with the bureucracy I have to deal with to find a place to live, and after that I would still have to find a job (and I do not yet speak French). It's hard work, and I think I want to give it up.

I promised myself that if I hadn't found my place in Lyon within a few days after my second arrival there, I would buy a couple of wheels and go to head towards the Far East. So far it's looking dark for the appartment. No positive response for any of those I applied for. Besides, cycling to Asia seems like a much better idea now, and I am very motivated to do it.

Because it's looking more and more like I'm going to Asia on wheels, according to the deal I made, I am posting to this forum for advice. Should I? Maybe it's not a very good idea after all...

The problem: I've got approximately €3300. I don't have a bike or any of the touring equipment I would need, except for a sleeping bag and some minor stuff. The silly thing is, these money were put off for me by my father, for me to use when I'd really need them. I don't really need this trip, although I have an incredibly strong desire to realise it. Anyway, spending those money would render my future even more uncertain. Sure, I will always have my father to help me out if I really need it, but he has requested that I become economically independent, and I have said I will.

I would have to buy a bicycle and all necessary equipment. Also a tent and possibly some clothes. With regard to money, does this make my idea sound very stupid? Of course I would be comitted to travelling ultra-cheaply, food being the only expense I can think of, but still... would it suffice for half a year or more of travelling by bike? A determing factor will of course be how much I will spend during the process of preparation (bicycle, accessories, camping stuff, and so on), but also for this I am not sure how much I will need, although I've spent the past two days reading about this.

If you are negative:
Please tell me, and also why. How much more money would I need?

If you are positive:
Then I am happy, and I have a few follow-up questions:

1. Can you give me some details on why and how you think this is possible? Can you outline how you would budget it? Are there travelling expenses except for food which I have to take into consideration? And in Asia, shouldn't it be possible to feed yourself well with very little money, like under €2 or €3 daily?

2. I will probably be preparing for the journey in Lyon, or possibly in Paris. I have not yet been checking out bikes in retail stores, but my impression from looking at French bike shops on the web, is that it may prove hard to find the bikes which I've been looking at so far; Trek 520, Cannondale T800, REI Novara Randonee, and other touring bicycles recommended on the web (at a price which I can possibly afford). Do you have any thoughts on this? I guess many of these models are more available in America... is it so? And for brands which are more common in European stores, do you know any resources which can help me pick a good bike? Really, if I buy something at this price which I will eventually be entirely dependent on, I need to make sure it is good quality.

3. The same goes for panniers. Do you know any good and affordable brands which are available in European stores? I also don't feel safe buying panniers which I haven't read reviews of.

4. Have any of you tried travelling the countryside by bike and looking for small work meanwhile? It would be really great if I could make money this way, in Western Europe, before passing into the less wealthy parts of the world. I mean, don't people always need help getting some boring work done? I don't feel good relying on such income, but if you think it's highly possible, I might try this. I guess it might be the wrong season now, though.


Any help is highly appreciated.


Best wishes,
Jonas-

Machka 

Just a few comments ...

1) When travelling in Europe, count on $30 or €20 a day. Asia would be less expensive.

2) Don't count on stealth camping the whole way. There are some areas where that would not be wise for one reason or another, and it would be a better idea to camp in a campground, or stay in a hostel or hotel.

3) Always count on more expenses than just food. Things come up ... you might have to buy additional supplies, you might have to replace bicycle parts, you might have to pay fees to get into other countries or to ride on certain roads, you just never know.

4) Check out Thorn in England for good touring bicycles.

5) Check Decathlon in France for other camping and cycling supplies.

6) How old are you ... there are age limits in many countries for legally picking up work. Usually it's 30 years old. How much education and work experience do you have? Other countries prefer people with degrees or higher levels of experience. I would not count on getting work ... work is a funny thing. Sometimes you hear that an area is desperate for workers, but when you go to apply for something there, they turn you down ... they've reached their quota, or the market has gone downhill, or the government says "no", or something.

7) If you think finding a place to live is hard work and you think you want to give it up, trust me on this ... cycletouring is NOT any easier. Cycletouring is hard work ... it's not a walk in the park. And if you think communicating in French makes it all the more difficult, try speaking in the various languages you'll encounter in Asia.

8) It would probably be a very good idea to have an idea of your route, and to do a bit of research on the countries you'll be passing through. At the very least, have a read through this magazine: https://outpostmagazine.com/ and read through your country's equivalent of this site: https://www.voyage.gc.ca/consular_home-en.asp (or this site if you can't find your country's equivalent).

I'm going to remain neutral on this .... with one additional comment. It might be a good idea to do a little bit of additional planning for this. It could save you a lot of grief down the road, and may impress your father.

snusmumriken

1) Maybe it is wise to budget such amounts, but it seems very luxurious to me. But I've been hitchhiking in Europe so I know.

2) Okay, I cannot tell, but I suppose I will be sticking to the countryside and that there will be the oppurtunity to camp without facing too big risks. And I really do not like ho(s)tels, but I will probably be using CouchSurfing and HospitalityClub where there are members.

3) Yeah, I guess I know this. I will count it in.

4) Ah, thanks. Thorn Sherpa seems like good quality (according to one review) and fairly affordable.

5) Will take a closer look later.

6) I had no idea. (1) This cannot be the case in Western Europe? (2) Legal work usually means writing a contract and staying for extended periods of time; I was more thinking of doing some small work for private persons, if this is not too difficult to find. Anyway, I am 18 years old and thus without any "proper" education (and I do not intend to get one). It makes things a little difficult for me sometimes, but I am quite clever, and I have developed some skills also.

7) This point is funny. When I said "hard work", I meant that dealing with bureaucracy is really tiring my soul, probably because of my political attitudes, and because I tend to despise big cities and "wage slavery", which basically was what I was applying for. I couldn't make myself deal with the papers because I realised I probably wouldn't find the result very rewarding. No, I don't want that. I want to be free. When I feel free, I feel deeply happy, and then I can usually take any amount of physical work. I just don't call hard physical work for "hard work"; it's good work! (But yes, I get your point. I haven't done extensive bicycle touring before, and it will probably be heavy stuff.)

8) Outpost Magazine looks good. Will read. And I'll check for a Norwegian equivalent of that site.


Thank you VERY MUCH for a helpful reply.

More opinions appreciated!

Machka 

Such amounts take into account the situations which may come up in my 3rd point. BTW - if you were planning to travel across the US, I'd recommend counting on $50 a day.


You may want to do a bit of research on this before you go.


(1) This is very definitely the case in Western Europe. I'm 40, and there is no way on earth I could just go and work in Europe, or any other country, without going through a whole lot of bureaucratic stuff. In some countries the age limit is 30, as I mentioned (that's the case with Australia), and in some cases it is even as low as 25. You've got to check the Immigration websites for the countries you're thinking of working in. Now, it may be a little bit different for you because you are European already. Is Norway part of the European Union? And you might be able to work in other countries as a student because of your age, or as some sort of work exchange or something.

(2) Legal work means any sort of work which is not "under the table". And working "under the table" poses risks. I could go to Australia, for example, and get a job picking fruit ... a temporary position ... and I could be paid "under the table", but if I were ever caught, and the officials do check on those things, I could be fined $10,000 and could be deported and never allowed in Australia again. The fines and other consequences may vary by country, but most countries have some rules regarding illegal, "under the table" work. Again, read the Immigration websites for the countries you're thinking of working in VERY CAREFULLY.

snusmumriken

Thank you again.

And regarding work, I shouldn't have left a question mark there. I know enough about the legal aspect of work within the European Union. And, well, Norway is a part of EFTA and that's what matters. It's pretty easy. There are thousands of Eastern Europeans coming to Western Europe to work for short time, for instance. Also young people like me.

martianone

IMO,
education and maturity are needed more than a bicycle.

snusmumriken

This will be very silly, because I don't actually have to "prove" anything to you, martianone, but here goes:

Education: I happen to learn ten times more out of the educational system than within it, so going back to school or to university is out of the question for me. I am getting an education by staying out of school.

Maturity: I find it funny, sometimes a little irritating, that just about every grown-up I talk to tells me I am "very mature for my age". I never really wanted to be mature, but obviously maturity is a valued characteristic so maybe I should stick to it.

So, martianone, do I qualify for a bicycle?

Machka 

You may indeed learn more outside the educational system than within it. I'm currently in the educational system and I would be inclined to agree with that. HOWEVER, the educational system can provide you with a very important piece of paper called a "Degree". Without that, you might as well give up all hope of moving to and working in another country outside of the European Union once you hit 30 years old.

The educational system can also provide you with diplomas and certificates (if you aren't inclined to go with a degree, and aren't inclined to move to other countries) which can provide you with $$ when you want to purchase things like new bicycles.

At your age right now, you may be free to travel and do what you want, etc. etc. etc. But it all changes when you reach that magic age of 30.

I'm not suggesting you go to school right this minute ... sometimes it is good to do a bit of travelling and working before entering post-secondary education ... but I certainly would not rule it out all together.

mooncricket

Possible, but it's a long way to go on 3300 Euros.

If you want to cycle Asia, why not use some of that money to fly to Asia, find a cheap or secondhand bike, ride around Asia to your heart's content. You should have around 2300 to do it with. Plenty of money. Knock about SE Asia on the cheap, and that could last you up to 3-5 months or more. Do some readings on the Asia touring sites.

You could possibly find some low-paying English teaching job to fill up your funds while you're there. Have a good time.

But, of course, if you want to prove your manliness to yourself (or your Dad, or your future girlfriend/boyfriend), by all means start out from Lyon. And if you make it, you've got boasting rights for the rest of your life--which isn't bad either

Once I wanted to cycle around Cuba, but I had only $1,300 US. I spent $500 on flights to Cuba. Once there I bought a silly Chinese bike for $125. Spent a few weeks riding around until my money ran out. Then traded the bike for some souvenirs and went home a happy cat.

On the other hand, I could have bought a thousand dollar bike and wondered how I'll get to Cuba on $300.

But whatever you do, heed Machka. Spend some time reading her posts and you'll know why.

snusmumriken

Machka: Hihi, yes, I know very well about the degrees and the other sacred papers. I haven't ruled out studies altogether, because I am commited to doing what I feel is right in the moment, and the moment keeps changing. Sometimes, my lack of education provides me with some tough challenges, notably when I want to work within the system. Perhaps one day I will choose to get an education to avoid those challenges. Probably, though, I will do my best not to get too mixed up in the system. It has deeply ****ed with my brain for over ten years, and I do not think it is healthy. I have had conversations with plenty of students or former students, and just about all of them were studying out of fear, and all of them were "missing something" in their life. I know that feeling. I missed something too, but not anymore. There are, by the way, plenty of books proving that you can do very well also within the system without attending any form of education, for instance The Teenage Liberation Handbook. The biggest problem for me, in the case of France, is that I don't speak the language.

This was quite off-topic, and I hope we can get the thread onto another track. But by the way, I was talking to dad, and it seems like he wants to support me in attending a 120 hour TEFL course. I'll probably do that before going to Asia. It should be possible for me to teach English in Asia if I get a TEFL certificate.

mooncricket: Thank you for a nice and encouraging reply. While your idea about flying to Asia seems decent, I would rather not. I've been flying all over the world with my family, and I am fed up. For this travel I don't only want a place of departure and a place of arrival (I know you weren't proposing that), but I want to see everything in between. If I cannot go to Asia by bike, I will not see Asia.

Machka 

You're very young.

French, and other languages, can be learned in University or through other courses. Before you set off across the world, you might consider taking an intro course or two in a language or two.


It's not really off topic, it's important to think about all this stuff if you're planning to work in other countries. And the TEFL certificate would be a good idea, it could get you into the entry-level teaching positions. You might look up some TEFL sites, and other sites about teaching English overseas as a part of your research.

martianone

Yes, you qualify for a bike;
to ride to school.

mooncricket

Here, here! Cheers to you and your efforts! I shall drink a glass to you tonight!

Best wishes and best of luck!

avatarworf

Ten years ago, I spent a year in France as part of my university studies. Despite having had several years of schooling in French my language skills were horrible when it came to everyday life. I remember spending most of the first month in tears and frustration because of the bureaucracy and my inability to communicate. However, I persevered, it got better and now that year abroad is among my best memories, plus I now speak fluent French. I would encourage you to push on a bit. Don't give up so easily.

If you do decide to pack it all in then focus on doing more with less. We bought super wonderful expensive bikes and kit for our trip but frankly I think we went over the top a bit. Don't get me wrong. I love our bikes but we did not need to lay out as much money as we did. Cheaper would have been fine. Look for a solid steel-framed used bike that someone will let go at a snip.

Also, if you are going to be in SE Asia consider that perhaps you do not need a tent and the related cooking supplies. Accommodation is cheap there from what I understand and many people do not camp at all in SE Asia. Many of the things you will need to buy (sleeping bag, sleep sack, some bike kit) may well be available cheaper in Bangkok for example as well so perhaps you could arrive with just a few things and then complete your purchases in Thailand.

Look into WWOOFing to make your budget go further.

c_dinsmore

snusmumriken... i don't have much time now, so i can't post my full thoughts now, but quickly i will say...

in one week i think i'll be in london, leaving for paris. in two weeks, i'll be out of paris, biking on my way to barcelona, to live with squatters for a while. everything you seem to think/feel is alongside my mind, too. it's a long shot, but maybe let's tour together some.

like i said, i'll lay out some more thoughts later.

peace, brother! something will work out. always. period. it's the crazy experience that we're looking for anyway, right? keep in peace, brother.
-colin

DukeArcher 

I work at Thorn in the U.K and I've got a 2007 Trek 520 I want to sell. Name a price and it's yours. Tubus racks, mudguards, Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tyres, I'll replace the cables and get the mechanic here to service it.

But, many people just get whatever they can and go. If you can make it here, I'll give you my old tent (Kathmandu tent) which works fine. Get yourself a cheap old steel mountain bike and GO!

snusmumriken

This thread took an amazing turn.

Amazing.

mooncricket: Thank you!

avatarworf: I feel like the problem of staying is that I am likely to leave Lyon with less money than I arrived with, putting my idea of going to Asia further into the future. Also, I am not sure if I want to live in a big city. However, I'd gladly take some work in the French countryside (where life would be cheaper, and where people may not speak English (could be good for my French)) for a few months, and I could leave for Asia when I had more money. I dunno how to fetch work in the French countryside, though.

c_dinsmore, it's a fantastic idea and it would be a pity not to do it. Barcelona feels very strongly like the wrong direction, though. I feel like I have this sacred task to go East. Going to Spain at this time of year makes perfect sense with regard to climate, though...

DukeArcher: Wow! However, perhaps the cost of the trip there would kill the economical reward of buying used... What do you think? Also, I dunno if it's a proper size for me (I'm 188 cm).


Anyway, I definitely need to contemplate my future a bit now. I've got four more days at home, a time during which I should decide on what to do. Yesterday it seemed quite certain I would, straight away, go to attend a four week TEFL course somewhere, possibly in Sofia (it's cheap and closer to Asia). We will see. I will post a new message later.

I am still very grateful for help and opinions!

eastbaybob

Dude, just fly to Bangkok and buy a bike there. For 150/200 Euros you can get a bike that will last you for a year. Don't worry about getting Thorn or any other fancy bike, they have Merida over that that are set up with lower level Shimano components. If you are able to get a decent bike in Norway, used or something cheaper that would be a good way to go also. So once you are in Bangkok, ride around Thailand for a while. Its very easy there lots of cheap hotels and for some reason if you wanted to camp I think that would be pretty easily done. After a couple weeks in Thailand you'll have good grip on things and the rest will be easy for you.

Check out the www.lonelyplanet. com the thorntree there has a section for cycling and there are tonnes of posts about SEA, and right now there is a guy that is selling a bike in Bangkok.

Have a good trip, and don't worry, it is as easy or hard as you want it to be.

DukeArcher 

I'm 191cm and its a bit small for me. But yeah, it's probably a bit far to come out here - (Somerset) from Norway!

Hers some pics of it just in case:

https://bp3.blogger.com/__DjrcD0RPZY/...h/DSC00420.JPG

https://bp0.blogger.com/__DjrcD0RPZY/...e+DSC00384.JPG

https://bp1.blogger.com/__DjrcD0RPZY/...h/DSC00330.JPG

https://photos-148.ll.facebook.com/ph...80660_8668.jpg

As New: https://bp2.blogger.com/__DjrcD0RPZY/...h/DSC00269.JPG

Bacciagalupe

OK, here's another solicited opinion.

"Cycling to Asia" sounds like fun. It also sounds exceptionally vague. You're talking about an area that is 43 million square kilometers. Where do you want to go? Bangkok? Singapore? Tokyo? Siberia? New Delhi? Different destinations will require drastically different routes.

It sounds significantly more difficult than "getting an apartment in Lyon."

And, unless you intend to go through Iran and Pakistan, it sounds a lot like "Cycling through the Russian Federation and Kazakhstan."

I do not see any particular reason to rush into this. Putting it off too far can result in never taking the trip, but waiting until Spring has numerous advantages:

1) You get to actually do some cycling and see if you like it
2) You get to test out your gear and equipment
3) You will build critical experience, with time to correct any issues
4) You can research your routes
5) You will have time to train, thus avoiding overuse injuries and reduce the odds of
6) The weather will be better
7) You can find work somewhere and save up more cash for the trip

snusmumriken

Whoa, this is tricky. I still don't know what to do, and I feel like I should decide before my flight to Lyon.

My latest idea: To do---sort of---like a couple of you have already proposed: Fly to Asia. I've been to Bangkok and Thailand before, and I don't feel too much like going there again. But perhaps China would be good. I could sign up for a cheap TEFL course there, and I could get a job afterwards (guaranteed by the school), and after saving some money, I could go cycling in the direction of Europe (not specifically to go to Europe, but to see, experience and breath in what lies in between).

1. What do you think?
2. Do you think it's possible to save money---earn more than you spend---working as an English teacher in Asia?
3. Is it possible to get (fairly) good-quality bikes and equipment also in China? I hear you saying that I could simpy purchase some cheap thing and ride it till it's defunct, but I'd feel much safer buying something which is supposed to bring me all the way to Europe without too much technical fuzz. Also, if I'm going to ride some vehicle for ten thousand kilometres or more, I'd really prefer something that rides smoothly.


And yes, Bacciagalupe, I agree with you. Of course I'd be planning my route a little more before leaving. I was thinking of going through Central Asia and head for Northern China and Mongolia...

kipibenkipod

Hi,
I have few things to say.
Its nice to here 18yo kid talking. I'm 32yo and I talked just like you back then. I'm from Israel, and had to do 3 years army, so I have started 22yo to dream. Simple calculation, you have 4 years to spare.
I think its a very good idea to go touring, but I suggest that you stay in your country and find a job. Save every penny you get (every Israeli after the army saves about a year and then go to Asia backpacking for 6 months to a year). This will let you have some reserves in the bank. I also think that earning your trip money in your age is very fare.
The money your father gave you, will assist you when going to university, which you will! I too dropped school because of my hormones an my whit. But I did my BA in computer science in Israel and just got a stipend to study my MS.c in Ireland doing research in wireless computer networks. We have just arrived to Ireland pretty broke, but I can tell you just one think - No such thing like university.
Here you learn what interests you ! not your teacher, not your mother or father,, not your boss, not the company you work for. Just you.
I told you this because you have said that you have learned a lot being out of school. That tells me that you are wise, and as an adult you will find that the challenge that the university will give you, will feed a lot of your hunger, and.... will open a very wide and interesting world to explore.
I wish you good luck. I'm with you in your trip, and it doesn't matter where you will do it. Just do it. But, and its a great but. Earn a few dollars, this will help you support yourself and make your dad also chip in to help you do your big trip.

Good luck,
Kfir

Bacciagalupe

When do you fly to Lyon?

I think that if your intent is to see as much of Asia as possible (rather than Russia), the "fly to somewhere in Asia" is a MUCH better plan.

You probably won't get a "really good" bike in Asia, but one that's good enough, can be repaired by the locals, and you won't mind if it gets stolen, lost, or left behind.


Now for the bad news....

I don't think TEFL in China is going to work for you.

Most employers will want (if not require) a university degree and a time commitment (typically 6 months). As a foreigner applying for work, there's a lot of paperwork and bureaucracy to deal with (your favorite ).

Wages for TEFL -- or almost any kind of work in China, actually -- are, by European standards, rather low: €250-400 per month, perhaps. (The only place I know of offhand where you can teach English and really clean up is Japan, but even they don't pay as well as they used to AFAIK).

If you want to stay in one city for 6 months or a year, it's worth your time to explore that option. If you want to wander around, you are much better off earning as much cash as possible beforehand.

vik 

+1 - fly to India and buy a bike for $25 ride it until it breaks or you run out of $$$. If you are frugal you can live very cheaply in India, but it is also easy to blow a lot of $$$ in India if you spend much time in the tourist areas and are prone to partying at all.

All you need for luggage is a small day pack with about 10lbs of stuff in it. You can either wear it or strap it to your bike when you ride. Don't bring very much with you to India. You can buy virtually anything you need there much cheaper than at home.

Machka 

Be VERY, VERY careful with cheap TEFL courses, in the country you're thinking of heading to, which "guarantee" you a job. VERY CAREFUL. Do A LOT of research before you decide on that!!!!! Get onto some of the TEFL, TSL, etc. forums, and have a chat to others who have done that to find out how it turned out for them. You will hear some good stories, and you will hear some real horror stories.

As for earning enough money to save ... all those short-terms TEFL, etc. schools will blow a lot of sunshine up your butt about being able to save all sorts of money. But from what I've heard from people who actually go and do it, it isn't anywhere near as lucrative as what you're told. The people who make the money are those with Bachelor's Degrees, or some sort of other somewhat advanced education and the long TEFL courses ... and the people who are willing to do a lot of extra work, tutoring on the side, there.

I attended the information sessions for several of those sorts of short-term courses ... guaranteeing employment, blah, blah, blah, but once I really started looking into it myself, and asking a lot of questions, I found out that most countries want someone with a Bachelor's Degree at the minimum because they want to be educated at the same standard as "western" countries. There are still a few out there where you might be able to get away with less than that, but it is just a few, and the numbers are getting smaller as more countries want to be "westernized".

With that in mind, I returned to University and have been pursuing my Bachelor of Education. I have 1.5 years to go, and then I'll be free to roam the world.