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Old 10-12-03, 01:18 AM   #1
aokgk
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Rohloff 14 speedhub

One more question.....
firstly let me say I am aware of the expense of this item!
I am considering setting a bike up with the Rohlof speedhub and a single 46 tooth cog up front. (The bike will have horizontal dropouts).
I am planning to use this set up for a round the world tour. The bike will have 700x35 wheels as well as front and back paniers.
My Question is...Are these hubs the way to go, if you can afford them. And secondly, is having a 46t cog a good choice??
I know i may be opening a box full of opinions, but thats what i'm after....these things are just too expesive to make your decision after speaking to one guy at the LBS
Cheers,
Grant.
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Old 10-12-03, 01:41 AM   #2
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Hi Grant, welcome to the forums!

I would opt of a speed hub for my touring bike if i had the cash, the benefits area great, but with such great highs, there has to be a down side. In this case, the downside would be possible failure. Nobody but Rohloff will service the hub due the the complex nature. If it fails, or one of the internal gears shears off, the hub is useless. With a traditional drive train you can limp out of any situation. The speed hub should last you, but there is always that small chance of things going wrong and you pushing the bike to the next town.

As for gearing, the chainring size doesn't help without knowing what size sprocket you are going to run. I'll assume the 16 tooth OEM sprocket? If that is the case a 46 tooth cog is geared very high. You are going to want something you can ride up mtns, and coast down the hills with. I would opt for a much smaller chain ring
46 sounds way to big for touring.

Maybe one of the other members can give you a gear range to target, then you can see what chain-ring / cog combinations will work for your setup.
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Old 10-12-03, 02:46 AM   #3
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Hi Joe, Thanks for the welcome and advice!
BTW.. i would be running the 16 tooth sprocket, which i belive is the size that comes standard with the unit.
Servicing seems to be the major issue i have with the unit aswell. They say they are virtually indestructable....but if you can make it, you can break it!
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Old 10-12-03, 09:08 AM   #4
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The inside of the speed hub is a thing to behold. The qualitry of the machine work is unbeliveable. The hub is not hard to work on, but there are many small parts. Not something I would want to try repairing on the side of the road. Rohloff will sell you any part you may find yourself needing. The hub is tandem rated even for off road, and should hold up very well for loaded touring.

The only reason for not using a SpeedHub for a round the world tour I can see is that if you do find yourself needing parts, you will have to order the part and wait for it to arive at your location. As there is only one sorce of parts for the hub. In some remote places this could take weeks. With a standard drive system you can always mix parts from diffrent makers and get your bike working again.
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Old 10-12-03, 06:12 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by aokgk
The bike will have 700x35 wheels ...My Question is...Are these hubs the way to go, if you can afford them. And secondly, is having a 46t cog a good choice??
Grant.
My first comment is that I envy you your world trip!

Do I think the Rohloff is the way to go. Yes, my touring bike is at the LBS now undergoing a "make over" that includes the Rohloff. I too have 700X wheels and did a lot of Spreadsheet calculations to arrive at my chainring/sprocket selection. I will set it up now with a 48T chainring and 17T sprocket that will give my about the same range that I had with my derailleurs. IF I go to full loaded panniers I will change it out to a 38T chainring and 16T sprocket, the only thing lower than that would be a 40T chainring with a 17T sprocket. Both of these combinations will give you about 18 gear inches (the 40x17 is only fractionaly lower).

I have searched the web extensively and have yet to find anyone that said thay have broken one. There is always a first time but I would not hesitate to do the tour your contemplating on a Rohloff. Have your LBS show you how to get the hub into a gear IF you were to break a cable; that is the more liklely problem that you will have.

Good luck, and we want reports!
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Old 10-12-03, 06:38 PM   #6
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would it be posible to use like a surly chain tensioner and then have multiple chainrings up front, or would that be too much chain slack. just pure curiosity.
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Old 10-12-03, 06:55 PM   #7
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Technicaly should work phatman.. Sheldon did something similar with a 3speed hub, a 7 speed cassette and 3 rings up front for a 63 speeds.
http://sheldonbrown.org/otb.html
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Old 10-13-03, 06:16 AM   #8
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You shouldnt need any more gearing than a Rohloff.
As for the tooth count, work it out in gear inches.
For loaded touring, most people recomend a range of 25-100 gear inches. Its better to sacrifice top-end gearing rather than at the bottom.
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Old 10-13-03, 05:31 PM   #9
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Hey guys,
thanks for the comments...if anybody has anymore advice, i'd love to hear it.
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Old 10-16-03, 12:41 AM   #10
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Rohloff Speedhub

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Gardner
but with such great highs, there has to be a down side. In this case, the downside would be possible failure. Nobody but Rohloff will service the hub due the the complex nature. If it fails, or one of the internal gears shears off, the hub is useless. With a traditional drive train you can limp out of any situation. The speed hub should last you, but there is always that small chance of things going wrong and you pushing the bike to the next town.
Yes, I agree - IF something happens, you will need to seek professinal advice. However, as a matter of fact, none of the Rohloff Speedhubs so far have failed to an extent where riding was impossible. If the cables controlling the shifting process are broken and you don't carry replacements (this is the most likely thing to happen after say 20000 km), you can still operate the Speedhub using a wrench to put it into a rideable gear.
Several German round-the-world travellers prefer to use the Speedhub since it requires less service on the road and gives a high comfort during gear shifting, especially when riding muddy and sandy tracks. I myself do not at all want to change back to a standard derailleur system, and I do prever to travel o remote regions.
Acutally, Rohloff does offer shipping of spare parts or even whole new back wheels to all countries just in case you do need something.
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Old 10-16-03, 06:19 AM   #11
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well, i personally have never used the Rohloff hub, but being in Germany where they are made, i have seen quite a few. EVERYONE who i have talked to who has one has been 100% satisfied.

i have been considering going Rohloff on my next bike, but my current 4 are not in need of replacement. since i replace my front rings/crank and cassette about once a year on my MTB i think even if the Rohloff only lasted 3 years i might come out even in cost...

but not considering cost issues i would agree that the only real consideration is repair. in car terms it's like going from a manual to an automatic transmission. with some basic equipment you (read me) can replace the clutch or flywheel or whatever, but if the automatic transmission goes then uh, oh, gotta go to a "real" service guy...

BUT, especially if you bought it new for a round-the-world trip i would be extremely surprized if you had any problems in the first year AND i am pretty sure that if you did Rohloff would help you out --- i have heard their service/support is great so i would imagine if you called them and explained you had bought one less than a year prior and were on a round-the-world trip, they would maybe send you a new one on the spot...

and the things are supposed to be bomb-proof --- they are getting VERY popular for off-road mountain biking and particularly downhill where a big front chainring or multiple front rings and chain-slap can all be inhibitors to downhilling - and the wear/abuse from touring should be far less in comparision to muddy-dirty off-road downhilling.

----> if i were building up a new bike in that price range i would definitely go Rohloff. if anyone wants to donate one to me i'll test it for a few months and then report back

as to Phatman's question about the front deraileur: i'm sure you can do it, but as someone else said, you just don't need it as the range is already comparable to a 3x8 geared bike -- and with evenly spaced gears ---- maybe the only reason to do it would be to use the same bike for heavily loaded touring and high-speed road-riding where you need way MORE than the regular range of a 24-27 sp bike.
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Old 10-16-03, 06:23 AM   #12
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Quote:
Several German round-the-world travellers prefer to use the Speedhub since it requires less service on the road and gives a high comfort during gear shifting, especially when riding muddy and sandy tracks. I myself do not at all want to change back to a standard derailleur system, and I do prever to travel o remote regions.
yes. on all of my long-distance tours (more in the 4-6wk range) i have had to service my drivetrain, spending a day off cleaning all the parts and all. with the Rohloff you should only have to clean the chain and worry about the cables AND since there is no shifting and always straight chain-line, the chain is not so stressed. ---> in most cases i would expect much reduced maintenance time and hassle on a long tour.
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Old 10-16-03, 02:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatman
would it be posible to use like a surly chain tensioner and then have multiple chainrings up front, or would that be too much chain slack. just pure curiosity.
Actually, Rohloff makes a very nice tensioner, but one of the beautiful things about running this hub is the perfect chainline, and getting rid of all derailleurs for a totally silent ride. I love mine, and use it for hard offroad riding. I've yet to experience a problem with mine, while just about everyone I ride with has dealt with a mechanical failure in some part of their drivetrain at one time or another. My bike is set up 44-16, and unloaded I'm hard pressed to make use of top gear, so I would consider going with a slightly lower range if I was going to tour. You want to be careful to remain in Rohloff's recomended gear combos to be safe. They have a good website that covers acceptable gearing. www.rohloff.de . These hubs are great, and my MTBs will always be Rohloff equipped from now on. The only beef you might have is the rather large step (13.5%) between gears.

Last edited by Buzzbomb; 10-16-03 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 10-16-03, 08:29 PM   #14
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Those Rohloff hubs look nice! I never really looked at them before this thread, here is the info on the sprockets you can use. I wonder why they don't make a shifter for drop bars though.


--
Smallest permittable sprocket ratios
The sprocket ratio on the Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14 (e.g. 42/16) converts the slow rotational speed at the crank into a fast rotational speed at the sprocket and reduces the input torque for the Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14 in the same proportion. To prevent overstraining the hub, a minimum sprocket ratio of 2.35 must be used. With the available sprockets these minimum ratios are achieved by: 40/17, 38/16, 36/15 and 32/13. This resembles a derailleur transmission of 22/34. Larger chainrings can be used without exceptions.
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Old 10-17-03, 02:31 AM   #15
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I was looking at the Rohloff site (thanks, Buzzbomb) and it occurred me that broken spokes may be easier to replace on both sides of the wheel, as there are no rear cogs to remove. If this is really the case, I would definitely consider that an advantage in touring. Less tools, faster spoke repair.

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Old 10-17-03, 04:24 AM   #16
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If I were planning a trip like that, I would go with the simplest and most robust drivetrain with the easiest-to-find/replace parts and a proven track record (Shimano).

There's absolutely no way I'd trust something as complex and delicate as a 14 speed hub to get me around the world - or anywhere else that was farther than walking distance from home, for that matter.

Best of luck with your choice and your trip!

Regards,

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Old 10-17-03, 05:43 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpooch00
If I were planning a trip like that, I would go with the simplest and most robust drivetrain with the easiest-to-find/replace parts and a proven track record (Shimano).

There's absolutely no way I'd trust something as complex and delicate as a 14 speed hub to get me around the world - or anywhere else that was farther than walking distance from home, for that matter.

Best of luck with your choice and your trip!

Regards,

John
I'm not trying to start anything here, but I've used both systems. In fact, I still use a traditional Shimano setup on my road bike. Have you got experience with both systems? No? You say the Rohloff is delicate, but trust me on this, I MTB some pretty rough terrain, and have bent, cracked, or otherwise broken many Shimano parts while in the same challenging conditions my Rohloff keeps on doing it's best impression of a Timex. Two years, one oil change and NO adjustments or problems, whatsoever. If you are really interested in finding out about these things, read some reviews. You will find that although some people don't like them, not one complained about the delicate nature of this piece of equipment...

Just to clarify my last post, my bike uses adjustable dropouts which allows me to size my chain and then adjust effective chainstay length for chain tension (think singlespeed), negating the need for a tensioner. If you mount this hub on a frame with standard dropouts you will need a tensioner.
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Old 10-17-03, 08:02 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzbomb
I'm not trying to start anything here, but I've used both systems. In fact, I still use a traditional Shimano setup on my road bike. Have you got experience with both systems? No? You say the Rohloff is delicate, but trust me on this, I MTB some pretty rough terrain, and have bent, cracked, or otherwise broken many Shimano parts while in the same challenging conditions my Rohloff keeps on doing it's best impression of a Timex. Two years, one oil change and NO adjustments or problems, whatsoever. If you are really interested in finding out about these things, read some reviews. You will find that although some people don't like them, not one complained about the delicate nature of this piece of equipment...

Just to clarify my last post, my bike uses adjustable dropouts which allows me to size my chain and then adjust effective chainstay length for chain tension (think singlespeed), negating the need for a tensioner. If you mount this hub on a frame with standard dropouts you will need a tensioner.

Hey, it's a free country and thank god for that!!

I stand by my orig. opinion (I THINK that's what the original poster was asking for).

It's true that I haven't tried one of these expensive parts - for the reasons stated in my other post, although I will admit that "delicate" might not have been the proper word to use.

I've personally logged about 250,000 miles over nearly 30 years (equivilent to over ten around-the-world trips at the equator) and have NEVER been stranded due to a "conventional" drive system failure of any kind - and I believe that if I HAD been, it would have been a simple matter to find the parts to get going again.

Personally, due to lots of experience, I try to always apply the "KISS" (Keep it simple, stupid) philosophy. So far, it's worked extremely well for me.

Regards,

John
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Old 10-17-03, 08:16 AM   #19
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Yep, that's what I've got too, an opinion. I just objected to the negative slant you took on something you are admittedly ill-informed about. I will admit that der. systems are ubiquitous, and if the main worry is being able to repair something in some backwater, than that is the way to go. I don't think running a Rohloff is gonna leave you stranded anywhere, though. My opinion, worth whatever you think it's worth.
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Old 10-18-03, 05:56 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzbomb
Yep, that's what I've got too, an opinion. I just objected to the negative slant you took on something you are admittedly ill-informed about. I will admit that der. systems are ubiquitous, and if the main worry is being able to repair something in some backwater, than that is the way to go. I don't think running a Rohloff is gonna leave you stranded anywhere, though. My opinion, worth whatever you think it's worth.


I took your advice and checked out the Rohloff site. And now that I'm "informed", I feel much more confident about my original statements!

I simply can't see any advantage whatsoever in this hub over the conventional der. system (other than being able to say that you own the most complex, expensive and impossible-to-field-repair hub/shift system ever designed)!

One of the specs I noticed is that they limit the input torque to the hub (to me that indicates a certain amount of "delicacy" of the internal parts). Also, there is no way that a planetary gear system can possibly be as efficient in transmitting power as a chain and cog setup. The laws of physics can't be circumvented by spending lots of money.

Also, there is a mechanical law that states that the more complex a given system is, the more likely it is to fail. There's no way to get around that one either.

Additionally, there's the weight issue - admittedly not extremely important on a dedicated touring bike - but this hub, I assume, is not specifically designed for touring.

I also noticed that there are two different oils, one for winter and another for summer. I assume that the viscosity is the difference. Wouldn't you need to carry the different oils and the change kit for the variable climatic conditions you would encounter?

There IS the singular advantage of being able to change spokes without removing the input sproket. Personally, I carry a cassette tool with me on long trips, although in all these years I've never had to use it.

So, in conclusion, after becoming more knowledgable about this product I am even more convinced that this particular piece of equipment is not in any way suitable for use on a bike that's to be used for an around-the-world trip. Actually, I can't see any tangible advantage for its use on ANY bike if maximum durability, reliability, serviceability, affordability and readily available access to spare parts are to be achieved. Mechanical artwork has its place without a doubt, but believe that it would be especially inappropriate for use in this application.

Peace & Love,

John
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Old 10-18-03, 06:42 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpooch00
Additionally, there's the weight issue - admittedly not extremely important on a dedicated touring bike - but this hub, I assume, is not specifically designed for touring.
Believe it or not, but in Germany the Rohloff Speedhub is extremely popular among touring cyclists. Altough it has additional weigh, it offers one thing that in my opinion is extremely important for touring: that is great comfort during gear shifting.
If you imagine that you ride your fully loaden bike through sandy or muddy passages, or travel on a trail that has many changes of downhill to immediate uphill over short distances, etc, you will soon love to be able to find the right gear with just one twist of your hand. No matter what gear you are in, with one go you can switch to the lowest gear (or what ever gear you want) even in situations when you cannot anymore do half a turn with your pedals to be able to change gears in a derailleur system (i.e when stuck in sand, mud, etc). Since I have the Rohloff on my touring bike, I have to do less pushing - something which is especially hard when your bike is fully loaden. In addition the nearly constant change of gear ratio makes gear changes feel very comfortable. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that riding sandy, muddy, etc tracks is not possible with a derailleur system - no - it is just more comfortable with the Rohloff and to some people (maybe those who are not so experienced with handling a 3x8 system) this makes a significant difference.

Another group of cyclists among which the Rohloff is very popular are every-day users and commuters. For them the advantages are in having a better gear shifting comfort and the requirement of far less service compared to a derailleur system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpooch00
I also noticed that there are two different oils, one for winter and another for summer. I assume that the viscosity is the difference. Wouldn't you need to carry the different oils and the change kit for the variable climatic conditions you would encounter?
This information is outdated. There now is a new kind of oil available that can be used all year round. Only when you are going to be traveling at very low (i.e. below -20C) temperatures, you are advised to use special oil.

I guess both systems do have their ads and disads, and I everyone can make up their own mind about what to use for their tour - I myself like the Speedhub very much, and given the fact that so far none of them failed in any serious way makes me even more confident that I am using the right thing for the kind and style of tours I am interested in.
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Old 10-18-03, 09:35 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpooch00
I took your advice and checked out the Rohloff site. And now that I'm "informed", I feel much more confident about my original statements!

I simply can't see any advantage whatsoever in this hub over the conventional der. system (other than being able to say that you own the most complex, expensive and impossible-to-field-repair hub/shift system ever designed)!

One of the specs I noticed is that they limit the input torque to the hub (to me that indicates a certain amount of "delicacy" of the internal parts). Also, there is no way that a planetary gear system can possibly be as efficient in transmitting power as a chain and cog setup. The laws of physics can't be circumvented by spending lots of money. Also, there is a mechanical law that states that the more complex a given system is, the more likely it is to fail. There's no way to get around that one either.

Additionally, there's the weight issue - admittedly not extremely important on a dedicated touring bike - but this hub, I assume, is not specifically designed for touring.

I also noticed that there are two different oils, one for winter and another for summer. I assume that the viscosity is the difference. Wouldn't you need to carry the different oils and the change kit for the variable climatic conditions you would encounter?

There IS the singular advantage of being able to change spokes without removing the input sproket. Personally, I carry a cassette tool with me on long trips, although in all these years I've never had to use it.

So, in conclusion, after becoming more knowledgable about this product I am even more convinced that this particular piece of equipment is not in any way suitable for use on a bike that's to be used for an around-the-world trip. Actually, I can't see any tangible advantage for its use on ANY bike if maximum durability, reliability, serviceability, affordability and readily available access to spare parts are to be achieved. Mechanical artwork has its place without a doubt, but believe that it would be especially inappropriate for use in this application.


Peace & Love,

John

"I simply can't see any advantage whatsoever in this hub over the conventional der. system (other than being able to say that you own the most complex, expensive and impossible-to-field-repair hub/shift system ever designed)!"

After much thought I would rather take a little piece of metal and dangle it down below my chain, put it under spring tension, and let it slop my chain back and forth. I thought about it, and I don't care if my chain is under a lateral load, heck that probably doesn't wear it out or lead to premature failure, and if it does, I can always carry an extra chain along with my casette tool.

"One of the specs I noticed is that they limit the input torque to the hub (to me that indicates a certain amount of "delicacy" of the internal parts). Also, there is no way that a planetary gear system can possibly be as efficient in transmitting power as a chain and cog setup. The laws of physics can't be circumvented by spending lots of money."

Show me where I made any claim regarding efficiency. In fact, there have been studies made (I'm not gonna provide a link, find them if you want, if you can.) comparing them to Shimano XT drive trains that find them +/- around 5%, the advantage going to each one depending on the gear. Even the most robust equipment, including racing transmissions, military spec. transmissions, and construction equipment transmissions have allowable torque specs. They are derived as part of the normal engineering process. The fact that there is a spec means nothing in terms of the strength of the component.


"Also, there is a mechanical law that states that the more complex a given system is, the more likely it is to fail. There's no way to get around that one either."

You learned this when you got your mechanical engineering degree?

"I also noticed that there are two different oils, one for winter and another for summer. I assume that the viscosity is the difference. Wouldn't you need to carry the different oils and the change kit for the variable climatic conditions you would encounter?"

There is an all season oil, which is what I use.

"So, in conclusion, after becoming more knowledgable about this product I am even more convinced that this particular piece of equipment is not in any way suitable for use on a bike that's to be used for an around-the-world trip. Actually, I can't see any tangible advantage for its use on ANY bike if maximum durability, reliability, serviceability, affordability and readily available access to spare parts are to be achieved. Mechanical artwork has its place without a doubt, but believe that it would be especially inappropriate for use in this application."

Sounds like sour grapes. You can ignore all the first hand touring experience out there if you want to, go ahead and slam my choice of equipment if it makes you happy. As far as being the most costly and most likely to break, two points: 1) Have you priced an XT or XTR gruppo lately? 2) My previous post stated my experience, which has not been what your opinion says it should be; no mechanical failures under brutal MTB use.

"Peace & Love,"

I didn't mean to get confrontational with my first post, sorry if I came across that way. I find your condescension repugnant and childish, and
unfortunately, this conversation with you has degenerated to the point where useful exchange of info or opinion is not possible.

No love, but peace, out.
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Old 10-18-03, 05:02 PM   #23
edlfrey
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I just went out for my first ride on my "new" Rohloff touring bike today and wanted everyone to know that:I own the most complex, expensive and impossible-to-field-repair hub/shift system ever designed!

Furthermore, I like it and would not hesitate to use it on an around the world tour.

My second ride was even better. It does require that you remember which way to twist to go up or down in the gear range but that is about the extent of the re-learning process. I had read some posts that had "complained' of the hub noise but they have better hearing than this old man, I could hear it but it certainly wasn't loud and I wouldn't describe it as noise.

Last edited by edlfrey; 10-19-03 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 10-18-03, 05:26 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzbomb
"I simply can't see any advantage whatsoever in this hub over the conventional der. system (other than being able to say that you own the most complex, expensive and impossible-to-field-repair hub/shift system ever designed)!"

After much thought I would rather take a little piece of metal and dangle it down below my chain, put it under spring tension, and let it slop my chain back and forth. I thought about it, and I don't care if my chain is under a lateral load, heck that probably doesn't wear it out or lead to premature failure, and if it does, I can always carry an extra chain along with my casette tool.

"One of the specs I noticed is that they limit the input torque to the hub (to me that indicates a certain amount of "delicacy" of the internal parts). Also, there is no way that a planetary gear system can possibly be as efficient in transmitting power as a chain and cog setup. The laws of physics can't be circumvented by spending lots of money."

Show me where I made any claim regarding efficiency. In fact, there have been studies made (I'm not gonna provide a link, find them if you want, if you can.) comparing them to Shimano XT drive trains that find them +/- around 5%, the advantage going to each one depending on the gear. Even the most robust equipment, including racing transmissions, military spec. transmissions, and construction equipment transmissions have allowable torque specs. They are derived as part of the normal engineering process. The fact that there is a spec means nothing in terms of the strength of the component.


"Also, there is a mechanical law that states that the more complex a given system is, the more likely it is to fail. There's no way to get around that one either."

You learned this when you got your mechanical engineering degree?

"I also noticed that there are two different oils, one for winter and another for summer. I assume that the viscosity is the difference. Wouldn't you need to carry the different oils and the change kit for the variable climatic conditions you would encounter?"

There is an all season oil, which is what I use.

"So, in conclusion, after becoming more knowledgable about this product I am even more convinced that this particular piece of equipment is not in any way suitable for use on a bike that's to be used for an around-the-world trip. Actually, I can't see any tangible advantage for its use on ANY bike if maximum durability, reliability, serviceability, affordability and readily available access to spare parts are to be achieved. Mechanical artwork has its place without a doubt, but believe that it would be especially inappropriate for use in this application."

Sounds like sour grapes. You can ignore all the first hand touring experience out there if you want to, go ahead and slam my choice of equipment if it makes you happy. As far as being the most costly and most likely to break, two points: 1) Have you priced an XT or XTR gruppo lately? 2) My previous post stated my experience, which has not been what your opinion says it should be; no mechanical failures under brutal MTB use.

"Peace & Love,"

I didn't mean to get confrontational with my first post, sorry if I came across that way. I find your condescension repugnant and childish, and
unfortunately, this conversation with you has degenerated to the point where useful exchange of info or opinion is not possible.

No love, but peace, out.
Well, now that we've BOTH been condesending, repugnant and childish, I guess we're even!

Let me be the first to apologise for what you apparently took to be a personal attack on your character. I thought that we were just having a debate over different opinions.

I was just writing the way I talk - some people HAVE accused me of being blunt, I must admit. No offense meant.

Actually, my degree is in Aerospace Engineering.

Don't worry, be happy!!

John
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Old 10-18-03, 08:52 PM   #25
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That explains it! EVERYTHING is in metric on the Speedhub, so now it's good! J/K. It's too easy to be misinterpreted on this thing...
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