Juan2know

I live in the Texas hill country where there are some moderate challenges for a 65 year old guy who's been riding a little over a year and a half, who would like to strike out next spring/summer for the Denver by way of NM and SW Colorado.

Then when I get there I may want to get back by faster transportation...does a bus make sense and can you put bikes on planes?

So, I'm trying to stay in that $900-$1500 range but could comfort and low enough gears are important to me. I'll be camping out 1/2 of the time so need advice on carriers, tents etc.

I have a Fuji Absolute SX for riding now and ride 15-20 mile stints at the present so how many miles do I need to build up to put in 50-60 miles a day if that's a reasonable goal?

Thanks,
John

BengeBoy 

Hi,

I used to ride in Hill Country so I know the hills you speak of...

Bikes:
- You have plenty of time to shop for a bike. You have some Surly dealers in Austin and some REI stores -- call the dealers and see if they have the Surly Long Haul Trucker and call REI and see if they have the REI Novara Randonee in stock. Those are good places to start, and the bikes are well within your budget.

Bike shipping:

- Yes you can check a bike as excess baggage but if you're taking a one way tour it may be just as simple to take your bike to a bike shop and pay them to dismantle, pack and ship it to you. You avoid the excess baggage fee and it makes transport to/from the airport simpler on both ends of your trip. Shipping a bike one-way would cost about $75 to $80; the bike shop likely will give you the box and the cost to pack it might be $30 to $50.

Fitness:
- Start increasing your mileage now while it's still cool; will be harder once spring arrives and it's warmer. I'd recommend making sure you are riding 80 to 120 miles per week now, with a ride of at least 40 to 50 miles every other weekend. By Feb/March you should be comfortable with 50 and 60 mile rides as your "long" ride of the week. Before you leave on the tour of the length you are suggesting you should find time to take a 2 to 4 day "mini tour" in Hill Country so you get the chance to try out all your gear, test your fitness level and learn what it's like to cycle 50 or 60 mile loaded miles every day.

You can check out the 50+ forum here for further fitness tips -- I think one of the "lessons learned" from the 50+ forum is that you can tackle some pretty demanding rides as a 50+ rider but it's also important to take rest days. Make sure that as you increase your mileage you are taking at least one (if not two) days off the bike completely each week.

BTW, I'm sure you know this but there is a big difference between taking the route you're suggesting in "spring" vs. "summer." You have intense summer heat to deal with if you wait too long to get out of Texas, and cold temperatures to deal with at higher elevations in NM/Colo if you go too early. I'm assuming you've thought of that....personally my 5 years of riding/touring in Texas taught me to hate riding in the heat so I'd err on the side of leaving earlier. If you like riding in the heat, you might be the opposite.

staehpj1

BengeBoy's advice is good and getting in shape is a good goal, but... You really don't need to be in great shape to tour. Having enough saddle time in that you can ride all day without getting sore is a big help though.

On a long tour it really isn't that bad to start out with easy days and slowly build the pace and daily mileage. Your fitness will come along as you go.

The Colorado Rockies are some great riding.

As far as the Rockies.... Most of the passes are less steep than your local hills, they are just long so make sure you have gearing that allows you to slow down and grind up the long grades. Something like a 24 or 26 on the front and a 32 or 34 on the back are about what is needed by most riders. Some can go a bit higher and some want a bit lower. I found a 26 and a 32 to be fine for me in the Rockies, but just a bit lower would have been nice in the Appalachians. I now have a 46-36-24 on front and a 11-32 on the back for me that is quite satisfactory for just about any normal conditions.

reiffert

IF you go for a day ride on Saturday and want to go for another on Sunday, you should be ready to roll on down the road.

meanderthal

Part way into your training-ride period, make some of your rides fully-loaded with most or all the gear you plan to have aboard. You want to get behind you that surprise of climbing aboard what was once a "sports car" and finding yourself powering a Buick instead.

txvintage

A couple of weeks ago the REI up my way had a left over Randonee on sale for $750. It's a fine bike and should work well.

cyccommute 

The advice given is okay as far as it goes however...

New Mexico and South Western Colorado a great places to visit. The far SW part of the state is very rugged...a bit more than where staehpj1 has ridden. His advice:

Is a bit off for that part of the state. The passes down there aren't quite as high as the central mountains but they are somewhat steeper due to being in narrower valleys. I'd go for a 22 inner ring and a 34 tooth low cog on the back. You won't need them for the riding in Eastern New Mexico but you'll enjoy them further north...especially if you go into the Durango/Telluride/Ouray area...which is worth the trip

BengeBoy's advice
is pretty good. However, Colorado's high country weather is okay by late May. Snow that could impact a road tour should be gone by then unless we get a really, really bad winter. You can have cold nights anytime of year depending on the altitude...even at 'low' altitude, you can have cold temps in the middle of summer (40F is not unknown).

Planes are okay but costly. Not only do you have to pay for the airline ticket, you'll have to pay for shipping the bike on the plane ($150 extra) and for checked bags. You might even have trouble sending some of the camping gear back (airlines don't like stoves). Bus is easier but takes longer. An alternative is to do a one way rental. It's costly but can be cheaper than the plane and nicer than the bus. National Car Rental has the most places to rent a car from and pretty good rates.

On training:

Being able to ride long distances is only part of training. You really need to be able to haul a load like meanderthal says. Being able to haul a load on the flats and at low altitude is very different from altitudes starting at 6000 feet and going up. Since you can't train at altitude, I'd suggest being as strong as possible before you leave. Start carrying small amounts of weight on long rides about 10 weeks before you leave and carry progressively more up to when you leave. Stop adding weight when you get to within about 10 lbs of what you expect to carry. I carry rice when I train because it's not abrasive...unlike sand...and you can eat it when you are done hauling it around...unlike sand

I'm not a big fan of the REI Randonee. It's too short for a touring bike. There can be heel strike issues that you may not find out about until it's too late. Additionally, a shorter bike with a load on a fast downhill can be skittish. I've done tours here with short wheel base bikes and I was never comfortable. Look at an LHT (about $1100 from Jenson) or a Trek 520 ($1300) or a Cannondale T2. I have the Cannondale and it's a great touring bike.

For camping, start looking at REI for deals now. Get a good 20 F bag at a minimum. You won't need it out in Texas or New Mexico but you won't have enough in Durango or Silverton. Big Agnes bags and Big Agnes tents are excellent. A little expensive but they'll last you forever. If you are traveling alone, a Seedhouse 1 is a good choice. A little small but not quite a bivy sack.

jbpence

I'm selling a 2008 trek 520, that has deore LX crank, triple front rings (44-36-22) and an 11-34 cassette already installed for a LOW granny. contact me if you are interested, Bike has about 1400 miles on it. List was about 1200.00 not including the gearing change, new front rack, brooks b17 saddle, fenders. Its the larger of the two medium sizes (a 54). Let me know if you are interested. This is a super touring bike. The only reason I am selling is that I am building a new, custom TI touring bike. I can make you a super deal, and the low end of your price range for an almost new bike already to GO just as it is, no mods required.

My last tour, I pulled an extrawheel trailer and 40 pounds of gear over engineers pass in colorado. I live in the rockies, this bike is geared with a usable (meaning at 60 RPM cadence its not too wobbly ride) 17.5 gear inch granny gear.

staehpj1

Thanks for the input. As you say I have not ridden that part of the state and I know that you have extensively, so I bow to your local knowledge. I will say that riders vary on what they need gearing wise and I have never wanted gearing quite that low even on 20% grades in the Appalachians. Are the grades really that steep in that part of Colorado that I might want gearing lower than in the Appalachians? I hope to tour there at some point in the not too distant future.

I have never trained with a load and never wished I had. It is more fun to just work harder on an unloaded bike and I think the same goal is accomplished. I say just climb hills on an unloaded bike and go faster. I am convinced that for me riding hills at a high level of effort on my (unloaded) road bike is the best preparation for touring. Obviously everyone is different, so take this as what it is, one man's opinion.

jbpence

I live in the rockies and my low is a 22-34, about 17.5 gear inches. The grades here are probably not as steep as in appalachia, generally speaking. They can get very steep on smaller paved and especially dirt roads. The grades here are, however, very LONG grades, and can have verticals that exceed appalacian grades by a LOT and maximum elevations on passes often exceed 10,000' and even 11,000' ASL (think THIN air) , so one can get pretty worn down by them without the lower gearing, in my opinion.

ANd keep in mind that acclimation to high altitides in the sense of not getting high altitude sickness only takes a few days for most. Being acclimated in the sense of physical endeavor, the thickening of of your blood plazma and the increase in red blood cells that happens when you train at altitude takes as long as three to four months, I've read. Its the high altitude that gets you out here. In the rockies, the LOW elevations are all pretty much above 7500 ASL here in the mountains of New Mexico, in colorado often around 8500'. Sure you can ride in valleys, but only so far, then you have a pass to do. But thats where the fun starts, then you might get as much as 20-30 mile downhill coast.


I'm in good shape. I like a really low granny for out here.

staehpj1

Yeah I observed much of that on the TA except my gear preferences for that route didn't call for anything quite that low. We definitely felt the difference when at altitude. The highest we got was about 11,500' (Hoosier Pass).

What I am wondering is how much steeper are the roads in the rest of Colorado compared to what we rode on the TA. Oh, and I am thinking paved roads only, or only brief bits of gravel roads..

I loved Western Colorado. Eastern Colorado was a bit of a letdown, we really missed the mountains when we left them.

cyccommute 

Hoosier is pretty high as passes go in Colorado but the run up to it is relatively gentle. Coal Bank on US550 out of Durango is lower (10,640) but it's part of a double pass on that road. And it's a pretty steep 6% from just outside of Durango to the top 34 miles away. Then you have a little drop before climbing the next 7 miles to Molas Pass. If you come out of Ouray to Silverton, Red Mountain is shorter (12 miles) but is a pretty constant 8% grade to top. The grade out of Silverton to Molas Pass is very similar.

Appalachia may have steeper climbs and I've done worse climbs elsewhere but the combination of altitude and long climbs are what wear you down.

Juan2know

Hi...thanks so much for the great insights and training tips and info about 50+ forum.

Really great insights and I've heard about the Surley brand before and will Google it next.

You're right about the heat...once it get's into the upper 80's I don't know how much fun
a day in the saddle will give you.

I may forgo the road trip out of Texas by driving to somewhere like Santa Fe and then to
Durango etc...but I do like the mini road trip idea...thanks.

Happy New Year,
John Young aka
Juan2know

staehpj1

Thanks.

Fortunately, when we were in Colorado we were coming from the West and had been over a lot of passes starting with McKenzie in Oregon, but frequently hitting passes and having the altitude build somewhat gradually the entire way. We were somewhat acclimated by the time we topped out at Hoosier Pass.

I am a bit concerned how much harder it would be to deal with the altitude if I would fly out and start in Colorado rather than starting at sea level.

staehpj1

I was surprised how well we adapted to 100+F heat on tour. Record highs seemed to follow us everywhere we went. It really is doable up to at least a dry 105F or so. In fact I felt better at a dry 105F in the West than a humid 93F in Missouri.

cyccommute 

That is tougher. Perhaps a good way of starting is to start in Pueblo (lower than Denver), head south to Walsenburg over La Veta Pass in to the San Luis Valley. That would give you a few days to get used to the altitude before you head into the higher mountains.

From there go on towards the far southwest (Durango/Telluride area).

Juan2know

Hi...

I just love this forum...just joined but what a wealth of information.

I'm going over to REI and pick up a book on touring...saw several there last
time but not so sure what I was looking for, now thanks to all of ya'll, I've
got a much better idea.

I think I'll stop and talk to the bike store about gearing for tour bikes but
your advice sounds good. I really don't know anything about gears more
than I know about tomatoes. I just get on my bike and move them up or
down depending on going up or down hills.

My bike is a road Fuji Absolute SX is a bike with flat bars and man my
hands arms go numb after about 15-20 min on it. I hate that and I assume
it's because to much weight is put on them????

I never had that problem with my Trek hybird but it was more upright. I think
I'll take it back to the dealer and see what they can suggest?

Thanks again...
John
aka Juan2know

staehpj1

That sounds like a good idea. I will keep it in mind. Maybe I will even manage to get there in 2009.

Juan2know

Howdy...

Yes, I'm intrested in your Trek touring bike but won't be ready to pull the trigger on
anything for a couple of months.

My size...I'm 5'8" with a 30" inseam so let me know what you think about fit? I've
heard good things about the Brooks saddles too.

I might be going to Denver to visit good friends prior to buying anything and don't mind going out of the
way to check it out depending on the fit issue.

You can contact me direct at: rkmtnhi@hotmail.com

Thanks,
John Young
aka Juan2know

Juan2know

Thanks for your insights and yes I know what you mean
by thin air...I used to live in Denver, now a cake walk
at 5200 when I'm in town but when hiking in Durango
last year it kicked my butt at 9,000-11,000 ft range in
that I was worn out after a 10 mile hike that day but
I slept good at night.

The info on low gearing is helpful as well as riding with
a load to get ready.

I think I'm going to rent a car, drive to central NM and
start from there into Durango and maybe on the Telluride
then if that's enough for me, I'll rent a car to Denver
and back home.

Thanks a lot.
John Young
aka Juan2know

BengeBoy 

You can learn a lot about gearing (and many other bike-related issues) at www.sheldonbrown.com. He has a gear calculator that allows you to play with different combinations of gearing to understand which combinations of gears get you to the result you want.

I think in "gear inches," an old-fashioned way of measuring gearing; Sheldon Brown's gear calculator allows you to find gear inches.

For loaded touring in the mountains you need to aim for a "low" gear that is down around 20 gear inches or a bit lower. That means your smaller chain ring in the front will need to be 22, 24 or 26 teeth, and your largest cog in the back wiill need to be 32 or 34. Either the Novara Randonee or the Surly LHT get you down to this gear range. If you've got a sympathetic bike shop that will help you swap out gearing, you can make inexpensive tweaks (say, just changing out an inner chain ring, or swapping a cassette) at the time of purchase. I don't think you'll ever regret having a low gear just under 20 inches when doing loaded touring in the mountains.

(Note - unfortunately there are some bikes outfitted as touring bikes that have a 30-tooth inner chainwheel on the triple. I think that for loaded touring in the mountains you'd find a bike like that geared too high. You should understand if you buy one of these bikes whether you can swap out gearing at time of purchase).

As for fit and hand numbness -- the issue could be fit: saddle height, saddle tilt, stem length, etc. Again, Sheldon Brown's site offers a lot of good advice about fit and some things you can try to make the problem go away. Your bike shop migiht be helpful, too. But one problem could be the flat bars -- personally I can't ride very far on the road without getting annoyed by flat bars -- they don't allow you to move your hands around as much as other types of handlebars, so my hands go numb, too.

Here's a cheap alternative to flat bars that allows you to get some handlebars with more hand positions without making lots of other expensive changes to your bike:

https://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...eid=&pagename=

You might find that by playing with your fit the hand numbness problem goes away completely or is diminished. But if it were my bike I'd change the handlelbars to trekking bars while continuing the training and shopping for a touring bike.

BengeBoy 

Some other resources:

- lots of topics have been covered here. Try using Google "site search" to search bike forums, e.g. go to Google and type in "site:bikeforums.net Novara Randonee". (The search function on Bikeforums stinks, but Google searches it just fine).

- go to the website of the Adventure Cycling Association -- I think it's www.adventurecycling.org.

- www.crazyguyonabike.com

And don't forget a local bike touring club close to you...they're based in San Antonio but I think they sponsor training rides and tours further north in Hill Country...this is the website of the Texas Hill Country Bicycle Touring Club:

https://www.hcbtc.org/

cyclezealot

One difference. Will you take the north or southern route... The southern route might change your component mix.. In the south, the grades are much less severe.

AndrewP

Hand numbmess could be due to lack of core body strength. My legs get all the exercise they need from the bike riding, but I find my arms and shoulders are much more comfortable when riding if I do some push-ups and crunches to restore some balance to the system.

Shimagnolo

To anyone wanting to know "how steep":

https://www.heywhatsthat.com/profiler.html

1. Move map and zoom in until your begin and end points are both in view.

2. Click on begin point.

3. Clink on end point.

4. Click on "Smooth route".

5. Click on "show grade".