seeker333

So - you've built a custom titanium touring bike that is not designed for carrying loaded panniers.

Got it.

BengeBoy 

fixed.

Thisisit

Yeah I like the sheep one, I just meant the larger ones. Looks good!

MTBMaven

Wow, how awesome. I hope you report back either during your trip or once you return. Better yet write a book (and then do an audio book so I can listen to it while I ride).

When I first read your response I felt like we were once of the "hoards of culturally insensitive tourists hosted by outsiders masquerading as locals, dressed in the garb of the villagers, and pocketing the funds rightfully due the villagers." (My own insecurities, I realize you were not directing this at me ) Then I thought more about our trip and I feel like we were lucky enough to have, for the most part, a totally different experience that this. I think back to our first day in Dali. After dropping off our luggage in the old part of Dali we visited a local Bai festival to celebrate their ancestors. We were two of only five tourist looking people at the festival, and the only two westerners. We also eat at local restaurants where we were nearly always the only westerners there, while other places were filled with tour buses, and may times the only people at the establishment.

It really makes a huge difference to separate yourself from the normal "tourist circuit." Western China was other worldly to me. It was during harvest season of what I believe was a grain, like wheat, not rice. We would be driving in our van along little elevated roads where the locals would spread freshly harvested grains across the road for the van and other vehicles to drive over. They would wait until the last possible second to move out of the way and be back on the road moving the grain around instantly after we passed, coming within inches of the vehicle. As the days passed we began to notice more of the villagers working with the fully threshed grains. Their processes were so manual compared to our corporate mega farms.

I could not help but feel sadness for the loss of centuries old traditions while in the larger cities of China. I feel as if China is not learning from many of the now obvious mistakes made by the industrial West in its/our quest for development, capitalism, and manipulation/conquering of the natural world. China seems to have that same blind and greedy desire to maximize short term profit and growth at the expense of long term sustainable growth (and their people and the human rights of their people). Having just listened to In Defense of Food on my ride on Thursday, I applaud you for your work and hope that you can help show the importance of the age old agricultural traditions still alive in western China. God speed to you sir!

seeker333

Almost every bicycle in the world can be rigged to tow a trailer suitable for touring, for less than 1/10 of the cost of the solution arrived at in this particular case.

BengeBoy 

But I didn't see that (a) the bike's owner was complaining the cost nor (b) that he was asking for permission to buy the bike. He didn't even claim that his was the *best* method to achieve his aims, just that it was the way he wanted to approach the task he had in mind.

He didn't spec something for us. He spec'd it for himself.

Personally, I'm not aware of an off-the-shelf bike that combines the features that this bike's owner requested. He had a vision; he found a builder; he ran into some problems that got fixed; he's off to a great adventure.

I'll bet some other folks who are considering custom builders are learning something from this thread.

Lost again

Wow, this thread has been very helpful. I'm going to China for a bike tour in 2010, there will be a total of four of us. But I've decided to drink the Kool-Aid and go with the LHT as my riding buds will all be on the same. I've been all over the place on tire selection and was unaware of the wire bead issues. So I'll also be going with a wireless tire. One of the guys I'm going with has dual citizenship and speaks 3 different dialects and another speaks Mandrian (sp). We are not going for as noble as a cause as yours, we are just going for a true adventure. We have a few different routes in mind. What is yours? What spare parts do you think are a must? We are all trying to stay with very similar builds so we don't need to carry a lot. How do you feel about the ride of Ti vs steel/cromoly? I really like how you've built the bike with options.

jbpence

here we go again. I don't expect ANYONE to want to do what I did. You might be happy with a 600.00 touring solution (1/10th of the cost). Others may not. Why would you care what I want? Why would one feel the need to judge another for what they do in regards to bicycling?

i think many of us on the forum have purchased bikes at price points that reflect the level of our disposable income.

A person of limited means could tour by duct taping garbage bags to the frame of a Wal-Mart bike for storage. A person with more means might get a touring bike suitable for panniers. A person with more means might look into the advantages of a TI frame... you see where this leads?

I wanted a bike that the manufactures think would not garner enough market share. They are right. touring bikes, in general don't represent much market share or there would be more offerings for touring. When more people toured, there WERE more offerings. A TI touring bike with discs and designed for pulling a trailer and with a geometry that offers snappy handling when NOT touring represents a slim subset of the touring market; I could not find a bike like this so I had one built.

An advantage is that I will be selling my cyclocross bike, a really nice 2006 Sworks (Aluminum, not carbon) Tricross. I no longer need this bike. I live in the rockies, I am a guitarist suffering from RSI effects in my hands. Braking on long descents just coming into town for coffee was killing my hands. 3 miles 15-20% grade, rutted cobble strewn dirt. I wanted a bike with discs for my dirt road riding around here. I'd use my trek 520 for grocery runs, same issue getting into town.

So I started using my disc equipped FRS comp mountain bike. What a dream getting into town. Until you had to ride a 28 pound bike UP that hill. The hands felt great, and I could not get groceries on that bike, no racks. I started thinking about discs on a lighter bike with racks and no shocks a lot.

I realized that I had the same problem, only worse, when touring. We had a lot of LONG grades here in the mountains. After I descended from the top of Engineers Pass in Colorado –a rutted dirt road, over 12,000 feet at the top, a 3000 foot or so descent over maybe 12 miles) – on my trek 520 pulling an extrawheel, I started thinking about discs even more.

Then the china opportunity came into being. Long descents on STEEP, rutted cobblestone donkey cart paths.

Then I realized I didn’t want a disc equipped touring bike. The 520 is a great bike, but its cro-mo frame is designed to handle a touring load. I realized after riding it on my colorado mountain pass tour that to me, the 520 is a really a harsh ride with it isn’t loaded - I was using an extrawheel trailer - I'll never tour with panniers again. I wanted a bike that had discs, that handled like a cyclocross bike when not touring, had a TI frame and was NOT designed to be better when loaded down, and had S&S couplers. Would have purchased one if there WAS one. I found things that were close, the manufactures kept offering to build a custom one.... and so I looked for an affordable builder. I could have had Moots do this for me. Wanted to support an independent builder.

it depends on what you want, and whether your intention is capable of bringing it from the cloudy realm of possibility to the here and now.

intention begets manifestation.

NeezyDeezy

I hope this doesn't detract. I think one reason people have issues is that they can't quite relate to your needs. For most of us, we would be better served by two bikes: one dedicated for loaded touring, and one dedicated as a peppy, shorter wheelbase bike to ride unloaded. In the first case, a bike with longer chain-stays would be helpful, and in the second case, a bike with lighter diameter tubing, caliper brakes, and thinner tires would probably be better. Otherwise, you have an in-between bike that works well for both purposes, but does neither perfectly.

That said, it's clear that the situation is different for you. Taking and keeping two bikes around the world is pretty unrealistic. Also, you prefer riding with a trailer, which largely makes the rear rack/chainstay issue moot.

Me, I love the bike. I can't wait to see you take lots of pictures of your enviable adventure.

jbpence

"We are all trying to stay with very similar builds so we don't need to carry a lot" - REALLY good idea, will reduce the tools, at least.

think the LHT 'koolaid' is bgreat stuff. Great bike. tires, I chose schwalbe marathon XR (expedition tires) - folding bead. Great tough tire, puncture resistant, bright reflective stripe on the sidewall

Cro-Mo rides GREAT. MAybe Ti slightly better.

The main focus of my trip this time is volunteer work. I dont have a route. I'll be winging it, and doing shorter trips this time.

remember, I;ve not made this tour. This is what I've learned so far.

Essentials? Brake Pads (a set for the whole group maybe). spare folding tire - 1 per bike, enough tubes so you can patch them at night instead of while making miles (3 per bike?). Fiber spokes for a quick fix (1 per bike). Real spokes for the real fix. Immodium. Sun block. Those Camelback fizzy elecrolyte tabs. First aid kits. Tools that cover every fastener on the bike. A hypercracker to get the cassette off (stein tools makes a cool one) Extra chain links. TIE WRAPS!!! Duct tape wrapped around some other bottle. If you need prescription eyeglasses - an extra pair. extra sunglasses. Good night lighting for the helmet or bike. A head mounted LED light for night vision. Books to read at night - english books hard to find. MPS player and a Mintyboost (search the forums here). I'm bringing a Garmin 705 with the maps for china.

spare Lithium non chargeable batteries - these last a LONG time. REALLY REALLY essential. a way to boil your water. Water filters do not filter viruses, bring one anyway to filter what you boil if necessary.

IMMUNIZATIONS: check with the CDC for where you are traveling. For south central china - whooping cough booster, japanese encephalitis, Hep A and B, typhoid, cant remember what else. START THIS 6 WEEKS BEFORE YOU ENTER CHINA.

camping not really done in China, I hear. Could get you brought in for questioning. The chinese don't camp, I hear. Guesthouses are the thing. And truckers flophouses. Try to find a guesthouse, the truckers facilities are.... less than optimal. Bring your own bag, and a bag liner. Bring an ability so suspend your aversion to rats and fleas. Something to fashion into a pillow. I'd bring whatever pad you use normally, in case you think whatever mattress is there is too sketchy. I'm bringing most of my camp gear in case I get stranded and have to camp overnight.

this is sounding like a new thread should be posted.

jbpence

detract? hardly. You nailed it. I'll be riding this bike a LOT in china without ANY load. It will be interesting to actually SEE whether this bike covers both cases well. I think it will. Later this morning I'll find out how it REALLY rides without the trailer or load on the bike. This is starting to get very exciting.

Camel

For folks with health insurance, best is to check with your doctor and have them recommend a good travel health clinic. I would also recommend looking into getting the rabbies vaccine series (too late for JB). The rabbies series doese not offer full protection, but gives you time to get somewhere-and also greatly reduces the number of shots post exposure.


Yar.

jbpence

my travel doc said rabies not available now. doesnt mean its not, but I didn't get it.

jbpence

Just rode the bike, maiden voyage of 5 miles in heavy wind on washboard, potholed dirt road. No panniers, no trailer

we nailed the geometry. on a 1 to ten scale of the cyclocross-touring continuum, where 1 is a cyclocross bike, this is about a three. Stable spinning at 90 RPM in low (22-34), as low as 3.2 MPH (unloaded) cornered great and handling the washboard road, i felt a sensation of floating, and hitting the brakes yielded a nice smooth stop on road conditions would have induced chattering in an aluminum bike.

what a ride. what a relief.

Greg_R

Lost Again: I think some of these (esp Hep A&B) require at least 6 _months_ if not a year to complete the immunization regimen (series of shots). Talk to your doctor & determine the immunization schedule ASAP...

jbpence

according to my doc, there is a booster 6-12 months after the first round. But thats right, get on this early.

Grim

Impressive build! I love how you built it exactly to your needs. As somebody that dabbles in welding and wishes he had a TIG the builder did an incredibly job on the welding.

An idea for the lower bottle mount. I understand why you had to put the braze on's where you did but why not make a offset bracket for the bottle mount. That will let you have it over the joint and give you clearance for a full size bottle. Only down side will be you may have to remove the cage to disassemble the frame but that would be minimal hassle. If it ever has to go back to the builder have him add another bung below the joint and build a bracket to straddle the joint to get it even lower.

Please keep a blog or a site of your travels and let us know the address.

I had a freind that went to school in China for a couple years and the pictures he sent back were incredible.

mooncricket

That's one beautiful bike, jbpence!

Congrats on the build and all the hard work.

In fact, I think it's too beautiful for a tour of Yunan. It would be a crime to take such a beautiful thing there.

But if you do, bring a huge lock.

On second thought, bring two

If you haven't been to Laos, make a detour south of the border. Much more fun in my opinion.

Best wishes!

jbpence

Thanks, I wont be leaving this bike out of my sight any more than I HAVE to, and I am carrying a long way too heavy cable that will thread through everything. and a lock.

I am going to laos, but not by bicycle this time - my S.O. and I are going, she does not ride.

jbpence

breaking the bike down, wrapping tubing in bubblewrap now. Will post more picts about the packing process soon.

Boudicca

I don't care what the detractors say, that bike is beautiful .

What's your link to crazyguy so we can follow along as you start the adventures?

jbpence

looking in my box o stuff, I see he DID send me some kind of offset with two of holes having the same spacing as for a cage....

Enthusiast

Great thread, great build, great job on jbpence's part of responding to criticism. Two comments: 1. I will be touring with a trailer, not panniers later this year and I wanted to say that I would love a bike that was a 3 on a cyclocross-touring scale. As more trailer options are becoming available, the trailer-tourer market is growing. Maybe you're onto something! 2. Why are you using straight-gauge spokes? With the cost and thoughtfulness of your build I would have expected beefy DT triple-butted spokes for your wheelbuild for greater strength, durability, performance, and comfort. I understand that such spokes might not be available in china but it'd be fairly simple to bring along a decent supply.

Good luck with your tour and I hope your activism makes a difference in the lives of people you meet.

Camel

Bring along full camping gear, including shelter, if ones route is through remote bits.

ricohman

What is this?
A touring bike that rates a 3 out of ten or a cyclocross that rates a 3 out of ten?
I have a Jake The Snake that I could tour on. And I most likely could fit panniers pretty easy. But I sure wouldn't rate it a 3 out of ten.
My Sherpa also rates a lot higher than a 3 out of ten for a touring bike. But to tell you the truth I could probably be just as fast on either bike whether commuting to work or blasting down a grid road.
Cyclocross touring scale?