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Old 01-20-02, 04:25 PM   #1
emma_t
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clipless question for the experts :)

Hiya bicyclers
I was supposed to have my MTB (that I will tour with) yesterday but a snowstorm blew thru here overnight and considering that
I'llbe taking the bus out to buy it (no car) and that I'll have to walk/ride it home (at least 2 hrs.) in the weather, I decided to wait till next week to pick it up (because of the salt which I heard was very very bad for bikes)
But that gives me some time to pick your brains once more, to enlighten me about pedals! I'm just trying to know what I am getting in all~
I've searched everything on the web and have gotten all kinds of clipless pedal pics but have yet to see the ones I was given when I test rode (Pine Mountain 2000) which makes me think they are either really good and of a newer model (say from the 2002 model) or else are really not good and of a "lower" quality. I didn't try them on with shoes- They were all silver, like a skeleton/cage and the same on both sides i think. I'm pretty sure the pedal "arms" said Shimano and were silvery-blue arms, but the pedals themselves are not 515s or 525s or anything i've seen so far. One guy on the phone said they might be "Shimano SPDs comp. (?) " For sure I know they are called "box." If anyone knows or can refer me to a known (posible) picture that would be awesome. Lots of things I've read here talk about knee injuries and strains and I don't have any knee problems or any leg/ankle problems- will clipless pedals cause this after using them a long (short) time?? I'm guessing that stuff like this is from being a long term "hard" rider??
Many blessings in advance!
Emma
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Old 01-20-02, 04:34 PM   #2
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Clipless pedals shouldn't cause knee problems if your legs are properly aligned in the first place. Clipless riders that have noticed knee soreness have sometimes been able to remedy it by adjusting the "float" of the pedals so there's more leeway for movement of the foot, ankle, lower leg.

A foot in a clipless pedal isn't held any more motionless than a foot in clips and straps.

As for the pedals you were looking at, I'm sorry to say I don't know what they are, but I'm pretty sure you'll get a ton of information on them here shortly.
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Old 01-21-02, 01:48 AM   #3
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I am doing more riding and having fewer knee problems since first getting clipless pedals around 3 years ago. The secret to avoiding knee problems is proper warming up by spinning easier in the very early stages of any ride.
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Old 01-21-02, 01:56 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by emma_t
They were all silver, like a skeleton/cage and the same on both sides i think. I'm pretty sure the pedal "arms" said Shimano and were silvery-blue arms, but the pedals themselves are not 515s or 525s or anything i've seen so far.

Emma, are you sure they are clipless being designed to clip into the sole of compatible shoes, or could they just be double sided cage pedals, to which you could add toe clips later.

The only reason I ask is that since the bike shop seem to have guided you right so far, I would be surprised that they would sell you spd or other proper "clipless " pedals without ensuring that you bought spd compatible shoes.

Maybe I've missed something in your earlier posts clarifying this.

John
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Old 01-21-02, 01:56 AM   #5
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Thanks Chris L.
Are you still in Oz at the moment btw? I'm about to go on tour and that was a possible destination....Darwin to Perth I was considering. But it will probably have to be another time with other ones planned atm
someone else has just sent pedal info. that matches, yay!!
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Old 01-21-02, 02:15 AM   #6
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Hi John ! (not Hannah
I just saw yr post. And you are making a good guess....but I am pretty sure they are clipless, because well, one salesperson had helped me the whole time I was there, and just before I went to leave (as it was close to closing time and I said I would come back in next week sometime which I meant) this older guy says to the woman: "uh, you know that one has on clipless pedals?"
And it seemd like it was an odd way for him to say it somehow.
Then the woman quickly replied: Yes. We talked about that.
Which is true. She did show me clipless shoes but I was more interested at the time in understanding the bike itself first and had been asking her a few other things (maybe he thought I wasn't going to buy the shoes but stick w/the pedals?--I could be misinterpreting but it seemed like the guy was surprised to see such clipless pedals on the bike that I was potentially going to buy. WHen I asked if she'd be there the next day, she said No, but my husband will. So it turns out that the guy is her husband!
Which is another reason why I wanted to find out more about the pedals on my own--so I would really know what I was getting from hearing about it & reading about it from other people and not just the bike ppl (and this guy-)--who gave me the impression that the pedals were too nice a deal for me or something. *My impression could be totally wrong. They were very nice in the store. The lady seemed to be being more friendly, but what do I know? Maybe she was just trying to make a sale~~I just wanted to learn about the pedals so I won't be completely going on what they tell me once I'm there- so I know all my options. And I really know a lot about just about every other pedal on the internet, but I haven't come across this one....I guess when I go in I can be prepared with what I've learned abt the other pedals, that should be ok I think.
Has anyone else ever had such a nervous and inquisitive time before buying a bike? Please say I'm not the only one! I feel like i write a small novel whnever i have a question *sorry
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Old 01-21-02, 02:25 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by emma_t
Thanks Chris L.
Are you still in Oz at the moment btw? I'm about to go on tour and that was a possible destination....Darwin to Perth I was considering. But it will probably have to be another time with other ones planned atm
someone else has just sent pedal info. that matches, yay!!
If that was on the bicycleforum refuge site, that was probably me also. I frequent more than one site.

Yes, I am still in oz at the moment, but I don't think now is the time to be touring from Darwin to Perth. In the middle of summer in a stupidly hot region (the town of Marble Bar, near that route, once set a record with 160 consecutive days with temps exceeding 36 degrees C (around 100F) ). I'd save that one for june/july possibly.
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Old 01-21-02, 01:08 PM   #8
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Hi Chris,

Thanks for the reply. That's definitely very warm!
Yeah, I've read a lot about Australia recently. It's a beautiful place in every picture I've seen. I'm sorry that it has been a terrible Christmas for NSW areas.

Well, I think I have all the information I need on making an informed bike purchase. Everyone here has been VERY great!
What can I do to show my appreciation? Maybe I can learn how to image a picture of thenew bike on here once I get it

Finally, tomorrow the weather will be less cold & more sunny
so it IS the day I'm off now...then every other day here is going to be rainy-turning-to-snow!

-----------------------------------------------------

To Flying Scot once more~
Maybe it was only a cage?! I have not found the mysterious clipless that I used that day. Nevertheless! After long hours of pedal searching, I am armed with the knowledge about many many clipless pedals!

To Work!
Emma
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Old 01-21-02, 03:54 PM   #9
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I bought my first bike (with my money) at the age of 14, in total ingnorance, based mainly on colour scheme. Fortunately I had chosen a local bike shop with a superb reputation, and the 3rd generation Mr Madget still runs it.
I rode for years knowing only how to fix a puncture.
You now know more than I ever did in 15 years of riding!!!
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Old 01-22-02, 03:45 PM   #10
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Emma,
Are you just getting into riding? If so I would ask the shop to put on some plain inexpensive platform pedals for you to use for the first few months. As a fairly new rider myself, who has moved on to clipless now, I can't imagine having to try to learn to use clipless pedals while just trying to master the basics, or re-master them after a while out of the saddle.
Regards,
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Old 01-22-02, 04:26 PM   #11
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I second Rainman's advice. Many people have "fail-to-unclip" moments when trying to stop with new clipless pedals. You need to be confidant on the bike and sure enough to balance before clipping yourself in. You will have new gears, powerful breaks and unfamiliar steering and suspension to get used to.
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Old 01-22-02, 05:27 PM   #12
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When I got my first clipless pedals, my LBS gave me a few tips on clipping/unclipping and a demonstration on how to use them. This probably explains why I never had a crash caused by a failure to unclip at the right moment.
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Old 01-22-02, 09:57 PM   #13
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Gee, you guys sound like you are working for the guy who is selling me my bike.

I have just had a rather depressing day actually.

Just a tip for anyone reading who might happen to be a bike dealer:

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING UNINFORMED AND BEING UNINTELLIGENT!

And for any cute girls who have nice personalities who also might be reading and who are buying a first bike:

Watch Out! I hate to say it, but take a guy who knows bikes with you!! Maybe you will get a better deal and even if you are there as a seemingly third party at least in your mind you will know that despite random things that are said throughout the conversations which seem to indicate that perhaps you are not new only to bikes but to common sense as well, that you are an intelligent person !

***What does anyone think of this: the bike supposedly comes with clipless pedals (imitation!!shimano, not the real shimano SPDs) and the dealer said these normally cost $40.00 (?!) & that he absolutley cannot budge on price of the bike itself ($860.00 including tax--but it's a 2000 which has been 'test ridden' over all this time!) When I mentioned the seat was uncomfortable he just offered to "adjust the angle" which was better but I KNOW that seat is going to be annoying (?!---where oh where was the woman who helped me before?) I don't think it is even thinkable to think about asking for any "swaps." Anyway--to be brief, he did offer to give me the entry level Time Atac (aluminum) pedals in place of the imitation shimanos, provided, of course, that I pay the difference in cost, which he quoted as $50.00--- well, I have been doing some internet price comparisons and it seems like he is making a rather nice profit here. Also, when I asked about lowering the price of the bike (taking away the difference of cost) if I opted for nonclipless regular pedals, I couldn't do that....*

Clipless would be nice but I don't know if I am going to get them. I would need to get shoes and I'm sure there will be no discount on those, and it could be too expensive for me. I do not think I need an extra set of pedals necessarily. If I went w/clipless I'm sure they'd take some getting used to, but thats all right, I'm not afraid of practising on soft grass somewhere. I'm not going to be racing so the shimano imitations would be ok i guess.

I can't believe that the semi-slick tires he showed me were FORTY dollars! (each)I know you can get a good tire that size for 15.oo or so.

I don't have a lot of $$ at all. It took me a long time to save for a nice bike, and I realize that this is a nice bike and all, and that it is a good deal, but still, even I have seen other people in shops have more leeway with bargaining in similar situations.
I definitely need some other things (before SPDs or--), like lights, a helmet!

I am thinking about going somewhere else to get the spare tires and saddle and stuff. Other places I've looked have been just as knowledgeable and I've noticed that a few of them are much less expensive than this place.

Overall the guy was friendly, he talked to me after the place closed about the bike and I gave him my downpayment so...

now I'm just waiting for a day of work to go pick it up,

~it is a very nice bike

c u later,
Emma
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Old 01-22-02, 10:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by emma_t
I definitely need some other things (before SPDs or--), like lights, a helmet!
Good Lord, Emma, if you intend to grow from a "cute girl with a nice personaltity" into a mature woman with an aura of grace, get a helmet! Clipless pedals can wait.

Quote:
Originally posted by emma_t
I can't believe that the semi-slick tires he showed me were FORTY dollars!
Believe it! My Vredestein S-Licks retail for $40 but they are hand-laid rubber and damn near bullet-proof. No flats in 2000 miles.

Quote:
Originally posted by emma_t
I am thinking about going somewhere else to get the spare tires and saddle and stuff. Other places I've looked have been just as knowledgeable and I've noticed that a few of them are much less expensive than this place.
If you live in an area with lots of choices there's nothing wrong with shopping around for a favorite LBS. Find your own comfort level with people that care about you as a customer, providing knowledgeable, attentive service and good value.

Enjoy the ride!
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Old 01-22-02, 11:04 PM   #15
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Bentrox,

you made me smile out loud, thanks

Yeah, one of my room mates works in a hospital and can possibly get me a helmet for free...they give them out to cyclists who've been admitted for accidents who weren't wearing, damaged or don't have one. They get a good number of ppl in who were wearing a helmet and lucky for them too...

Good to know I'm not crazy in thinking that $40. is a lot, and that thats a right price for a good tire, not just an overprice.

thnx for the input,

PS- saw yr tagline- are you a poet?
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Old 01-23-02, 01:26 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by emma_t
Good to know I'm not crazy in thinking that $40. is a lot, and that thats a right price for a good tire, not just an overprice.
I'm not sure it is. I've got cheap slicks on my bike (I paid $20AUSTRALIAN for each of them) and no flats in 5,000km. This despite living in an area where smashing glass bottles is a popular recreational activity. If I were you, I'd be doing some more shopping around and finding a better LBS. They do exist.
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Old 01-23-02, 06:23 AM   #17
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$40 for a tyre? I've paid as much as $55. It all depends how good they are. Veloflex has some that are $75, and I'm sure they are worth every penny.
BTW, my road bike rides on $40 tubulars, my touring bike rides on $35 clinchers, and my new SS/fixed MTB will ride on $35 tyres. I have a set of $60 tubulars for my lightweight road wheels, too.
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Old 01-23-02, 07:45 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by emma_t

Good to know I'm not crazy in thinking that $40. is a lot, and that thats a right price for a good tire, not just an overprice.

I wouldn't say $40 was hideously expensive for tyres - I'm another Vredestein user and from memory this is about the equivalant of the retail price for my Spider's... admittedly my lbs did upgrade for free when I bought the bike...

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Old 01-23-02, 11:14 AM   #19
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Hmmmm, I'm glad to hear the names of various tire brands that are longlasting and well worth the price. The $40.oo tires I was shown were called Goliaths (USA). They looked good enough.
Maybe someone has experience about the performance of these?
Also, Bort or Bell?ranger tires were mentioned (i know i'm spelling it wrong, but 've heard them mentioned a lot so they'd be easy to find ). And Continental. I'm sure there are lots of brands that are plenty good, and I am willing to pay a good price if that's how much the average is.
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Old 01-23-02, 11:26 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by emma_t
I'm sure there are lots of brands that are plenty good, and I am willing to pay a good price if that's how much the average is.
What will you mainly be riding on?

Slicks are great for road, but no good off-road.

Semi-slicks are a compromise - some more towards road others more off-road, but won't be perfect for either. I'm happy with semi-slicks for commuting largely on road but some easy off-road.

Off-road you've got mud clearing knobblies and dust clearing knobblies.

Within these there are more sub-divisions....

Also do you want the extra weight of a puncture resistant system?

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Old 01-23-02, 11:38 AM   #21
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Originally posted by Richard D


What will you mainly be riding on?

Slicks are great for road, but no good off-road.

Richard
I find slicks just fine for prepared bike trails, like Sustrans off road routes and for many unsurfaced tracks and bridlepaths. I wouldnt want to ride fast or sporty with slicks or ride on very muddy routes, but I will take the rough with the smoothe.

Premium tyres do seem very expensive, but some of them are worthwhile. I use kevlar banded tyres for puncture protection, but I wouldnt pay for kevlar beaded tyres. They are really for racing.
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Old 01-23-02, 12:15 PM   #22
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Originally posted by Richard:
------------------------------------------------

What will you mainly be riding on?

Slicks are great for road, but no good off-road.

Semi-slicks are a compromise - some more towards road others more off-road, but won't be perfect for either.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I am very gratefulfor all the advice everyone has given from this forum I must say. Most of it has been, in mass, congruent (am I using this word the right way?) with one another....tho sometimes things vary depending on individuals experience or preference, which only makes sense. I've been told various things about tires.

The ones that the bike I just bought comes with are:
Notos tires with Kevlar bead. Though it's a MTB I plan to be using it mostly (guessing 70%) on roads and in cities. I'll be riding everywhere with it! (not just communting) over some tough roads on occassion

I listened attentively to my LBS's advice when his response to my asking to switch the tires was: you could just ride these on road, the heavy knobs in the middle will eventually wear down, and it won't ruin your rims or other parts of the wheel to do so. These tires are really good and if I were you I wouldn't trade them for slicks or semi-slicks.

Is that ok? being someone who has a lot less bike knowledge and who has been screwed before (hasn't everybody once in life? enough to make you not want it to happen again in future?) I tend to not trust some things the first time I hear them. It might be a bad habit, but better safe than sorry i think.

Would it be ok to ride on road with such knobbly tires?
I've heard that a tire that's slick in the middle but knobbly on sides would be good for road cause they have more "traction" than all slicks and that if some person in a car sideswipes you and you have to dive for the ditch you'll be gald to have some traction with the knobbly edges.
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Old 01-23-02, 03:21 PM   #23
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Knobbly tyres have no extra traction on hard tarmac surface. Under hard cornering, the knobbles can deform. Knobbles on the edge of the tyre offer no extra safety on the road. Sometimes they have a very soft rubber compound, which wears out on tarmac.

Knobbly tyres make a characteristic buzz, the sound of your pedalling energy not moving you forward!!. Its mainly a question of efficiency. High pressure slick tyres of 1.5" width will roll much more freely than wider, lower pressure knobbly ones.

On loose surfaces and mud, the opposite effect is true. You have less wheel spin and better traction with knobblies.

Touring tyres, such as Continental Top Touring
http://www.contitires.com/tires/toptouring2000.html
have a smooth surface and a deep tread for riding on muddy tracks. They are widely used by long distance tourists.
Slicks, like Vredenstein S-Licks are lighter and faster on the road.
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Old 01-23-02, 03:26 PM   #24
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the knobby tyres will have more rolling resistance on the road and make you use more energy to spin.

As far as someone in a car sideswiping you on the bike, the type of trye you have will be of little help. Car hitting cyclist = injury ride smart, be as visable as you can be to others shareing the road. If a car challenges you for space they more often win
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Old 01-23-02, 04:59 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by emma_t
Bentrox,
you made me smile out loud, thanks
PS- saw yr tagline- are you a poet?
I'm happy to have brightened your day. Others here have done the same for me. It's our common bond, I guess.

I love reading poetry but I'm no poet. The tagline is from my favorite Irish drinking song (don't we all have one?) It's called "The Parting Glass" and is a toast to past regrets, lost loves, and fallen comrades.

Enjoy,
Eddie
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I'll gently rise and I'll softly call
Good night and joy be with you all.
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