brockd15 

I've been looking for a touring bike and have focused primarily on finding a vintage steel ride that I can get a deal on instead of a newer one that cost more. After looking at a lot of bikes online, it seems like the Surly LHT has it all.

The stuff I tend to look for on a frame/fork is cantilever brakes, two eyelets in back for a rack and a fender, two eyelets on the fork for a rack and a fender, low rack mounting points on the fork, mounts for 3 bottle cages, brazed-on mounts for downtube shifters/cable stops, and brazed on mounts on the seat stays for a rack. The Surly has all this, plus spoke holders on the left chain stay and clearance for plenty big tires with fenders.

Most of the bikes I've seen are missing something, like the third bottle mount. One I came across recently is the Univega Seral, which seems to have just about anything. So what vintage bikes have all this and could be found for a decent price (which, for me, will pretty much exclude the Trek 520, 720, and Miyata 1000...maybe others).

BengeBoy 

I have a vintage Univega Gran Turismo. It has all of the braze-ons you mentioned.

I also have a vintage steel Specialized Stumpjumper, which would make a great 26-inch wheel touring bike. It has what you've mentioned above except a 3rd water bottle mount and mid-fork braze-ons on the front fork.


One thing to consider is that if you're buying an old frame that needs refinishing anyway it's not that expensive to have a frame shop put on new braze-ons; then you get it powder-coated, protect the inside with Framesaver, and off you go with all the braze-ons you want and a new paint job.

Omiak

I have a mid-eighties Schwinn Passage. It has all the braze-ons you've described except the low rack mounting points on the fork.

xyzzy834

A third water bottle mount is no big deal. You can always store an extra water bottle in the top of a pannier or strapped to the top of a rack. The frame-mounted water bottles are just easier to get to while riding. I hardly ever miss the opportunity to stop and stretch my legs for a few seconds when I need a drink of water anyway. I'm on vacation when I tour, not in a time trial.

I consider lower eyelet/braze-ons essential for rack mounts. The P-clamps will work fine for stabilizing the upper side of the rack but the lower mount is what carries the weight. I'd still prefer a frame that had mid-fork rack mount braze-ons but I could live without them. Many racks have attachment points for fenders built into the rack. That means you really only need one set of eyelets near the front and rear dropouts.

MichaelW

Your describing my Bob Jackson which also has a bottle dynamo braze-on mount.
You wont find all of those braze-ons on a mainstream brand, factory bike. I think the Bruce Gordon BLT has them.
The third waterbottle cage is useful for fuel which can leak. Adding another waterbottle cage is not that difficult, you get variuos clamp-on mounts and you can have one brazed on.

brockd15 

That's an intriguing thought. Get a bike with touring-esque geometry and add what you want...opens a whole new world of possibilities.

well biked

My '83 Centurion Pro Tour had everything except the third water bottle mount, and I had a framebuilder add a third mount while the frame was at his shop for another minor repair-

brockd15 

How much did they charge you for that? What did you do about the paint in that area?

Smokinapankake

Nishiki Cresta. Everything you've described, including the third bottle mount.

Peugeot Canyon Express. Yeah, its a mountain bike, and the 1985 model is the one you want. 3 bottles, dual eyelets front and rear, lugged Ishiwata DB cromo frame, and even has pump mounts on the backside of the seat tube. Only thing it doesn't have is the downtube shifter bosses, but as stated previously, any frameshop or even half talented welder could do this for you relatively cheap. I've had both and prefer the Peugeot over the Nishiki for its sturdier and more easily replaceable 26" wheels.

cyccommute 

A mid 90s Cannondale would fit the bill nicely. T1000, T400, T700, etc.

well biked

I sent the frame off to David Cheekah (sp?) at www.southwestframeworks.com in Dallas and he did a great job for a very reasonable price. He's been building/repairing/painting frames for a very long time. The bike's previous owner had crushed the chainstay bridge with a kickstand clamp, and it bugged me enough to want it repaired. David replaced the bridge for $40, and for another $20 added the water bottle mount. To my surprise, he also painted the affected areas with a paint that's so close in color to the rest of the bike you have to look very, very close to notice it. The paint was not part of the deal, I had planned to repaint the whole frame, but I haven't yet because of the nice "touch-up" he did at no charge.

rotharpunc

Panasonic pro touring, some of the Schwinn Voyauger models, Fuji Saratoga, there are tons of them, really. Or go the route mentioned above and have braze ons added

tarwheel 

Take a look at the Bob Jackson World Tour. I bought one new over the winter for about $600 including shipping to the USA, and I could choose any color/decal combination. If you buy an older frame, add braze-ons, and repaint it, I guarantee that you'll spend more than I did on my BJ. My World Tour has the follow braze-ons standard: front and rear rack mounts, front and rear fender mounts, 3 sets of water bottle mounts, cantilever brake mounts. On top of all that, it is built from quality steel (Reynolds 631) and fully lugged. Built up, it only weighed about 21 lbs.

https://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/pr...products_id=43

BengeBoy 

I just wanted to add that if you find a good vintage touring bike (there are plenty out there if you're patient) your biggest issue is likely not going to be braze-ons. There are plenty on most of the vintage bikes that were really sold as touring bikes. Instead, the issues are going to be:

- Are the components in good enough shape to use as is, or do they require significant overhauls and upgrades?
- How good are the wheels?
- Does the bike need basics like tires, tubes, cables, bar wrap, etc.

I love vintage touring bikes. But it's not hard to buy a "bargain" and quickly "upgrade" your way into the price of a new bike. If you are doing it because you love an old bike or want to learn how to put a bike together, that's great. But if you are looking for an old bike to save money make sure you are keeping an eye on the total cost of your project, or else it might be smart to go with a new bike (e.g, right now the REI Randonee is on sale at $890).

My experience in looking around is that old steel MTB's (which can be converted into touring bikes) are less expensive than used purpose-built touring bikes. But you will then spend more to upgrade them for modern use.

Smokinapankake

For many people, upgrading an older bike may be a better option, just because it spreads the price out over a longer period of time. I may not have $1000 plus to drop on a new TB right now, nor may I ever. But, if I could find something older in reasonable shape with a decent price, upgrade away and appreciate it for what it is.

brockd15 

I've heard a lot of good things about Bob Jackson's, and you're definitely looks nice. Can't help but notice you got it in "tarwheel" blue.

I did recently find a 1983 Schwinn Voyageur that has braze-ons for 3 bottle cages, cantilever brakes, fenders, and front & rear racks. It's in great shape, including the components, and the asking price is $300 so I might go that route.

tarwheel 

I actually started out looking for an old Miyata, Univega or Panasonic touring frame but gave up after looking unsuccessfully for a decent one in my size for months and months. The prices for nice old touring frames have really started climbing on eBay, and one recent auction topped well over $1,000 for a Miyata. A lot of older frames could use new paint jobs, and in many cases it is less expensive to just buy a new frame if you have to repaint.

Also, many older frames take 27" wheels, which limits your tire selection. They also could be relatively heavy. My Bob Jackson frame and fork weighed 6 lbs with an uncut steerer and all of the bolts attached for many braze-ons and mounts. That is very light for a steel lugged touring frame.

Beelzebutt

83-84 Specialized expedition has it all. Hard to find though.
Trek 520 and miyata 100 are a little more common and set
Up similar.

akcapbikeforums

The Pro Tour, Miyata 1000 and Specialied Expedition get extra credit for having internal wiring for a bottom bracket generator -- not a braze on per se, but nonetheless the feature required working the frame however many more steps.

Now if I could just figure out if its worth even considering a bottom bracket generator for my Pro Tour.

LeeG

BrockD15, unless you regularly roam around to garage sales hoping to come upon a needle in a haystack you're probably going to have better luck stalking ads and calling shops for a killer deals simply because shops and retailers are going to have a larger quantity of bikes you are seeking. Lots of businesses have inventory they don't advertise. "Hello, my name is... and I'm calling to see if you'd have any low cost deals on 54cm frames I could turn into a touring bike". Keep the conversation short and give the pertinent information up front. It may take calling a dozen shops for one positive but I bet that would connect you to a larger inventory than looking through a dozen listings on e-bay or craigslist.

surfjimc

The Miyata 1000 and the Specialized Expedition are the same frame. I have an 86 Expedition, same as the 84 with a longer top tube, that I picked up for $125 on Ebay. The week before, another one went for $380. Right place, right time I guess. It was in poor shape though, so I turned it into a dream bike build, but that has stalled with the economy. Still need wheels and a paint job. Those old frames are out there, you just have to be patient. It took me a year to find what I wanted at a good price, and even then I still want the shorter top tube. Changing out the stem will solve the problem though, and I have a really long torso.

badger_biker 

brockd15 - I'm curious if you picked up the Voyageur or found anything else. I just got a 1987 Voyageur with Columbus tubing for $335 on ebay with F&R racks also but the paint job has taken a beating. These seem to be decent values if you can find one, going for less than the Treks, Miyata's or Expeditions and they have an extra pair of eyelets on each dropout that my Expedition lacks.

akcapbikeforums

Badger, did you get this "Imperial Rose" (red) 1986 Voyageur on ebay? That's a nice bike -- tough to find front racks that even use the fork eyelets, but your bike came with them!

BTW, Here's a great comparison sheet for Voyageurs. They changed quite a bit from year to year as to which braze-ons were included.

badger_biker 

akcapbikeforums - Yes I won it a couple of weeks ago. It was in Illinois. The rear rack has no name but I have seen the same rack on another picture of a Schwinn so it may have been something they came with stock. It is different than the Blackburns they usually came with in the 80's though. The front rack is the Blackburn MT-F rack which was a pleasant surprise since they are rare and have been unavailable in the states for a while. According to this thread it is coming back however:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ont-Rack-Which

Here is a picture from the posting showing the racks. It was the only picture so I took a bit of a chance, but I think that kept the price down too. I've tried auto parts stores to find a color match to spray some of the bad scrapes but have had no luck. Any idea what might match the imperial rose?

brockd15 

Yeah, I never followed up here but I did get the '83 Voyageur. It's in very impressive condition although not all original. It has downtube shifters with shimano 600 brifters being used for the brake levers. The only thing it lacks that I originally mentioned is mid-fork braze-ons for a front rack...it has braze-ons for a rack but they're on the fork crown instead of the blades. I figured I could live with that. I ended up getting it for $275 I think as you see it below. The bars are too narrow for me at around 39cm, so I'm still on the lookout for some similar but in a 44cm, along with a longer stem.

I also picked up a Bridgestone T700 that has everything I mentioned in the original post and also spare spoke holders on one of the chain stays. I was hoping it would work for my wife but it's just a tad big. So now I'm working on a Schwinn High Sierra for her that has everything but the third water bottle mount. We'll see how it turns out...the top tube might be a little too long.