mev

Things don't have to be so black and white as your trailing sentence of "start when we are young and go as long as we can...".

I've been fortunate to save up for an extended trip living below my means. I've been fortunate and grateful to have taken some extended trips along the way including the current trip I expect to be ~18 months or so. If one waits until traditional retirement age or even early retirement one might discover you are no longer physically able to make such an extended trip - so I'd rather mix having a year or two off along the way coupled with perhaps working a year or two more at the end...than getting so wrapped in work for 40 years of 2-week vacations.

BigAura

The capital of the world really comes primarily from the Earth, along with application of human labor/intellect. The earth belongs to all of us equally. Collectively humans have wiped out or enslaved most competing lifeforms, and sullied large swaths of the earth to claim this capital. Persons who choose a less consumptive lifestyle are in-fact preserving the Earth for others and therefore sharing more not less than most.

tcs

Ah, the joy of not being owned by possessions and the freedom to pack up the wheels outside your little tent and go where you please.

Seriously, though, I wonder if it's still legal for an American citizen to live on the road with no assets? Make more than $400/yr (a dollar and ten cents a day, you know, for food) doing odd jobs and one has to pay FICA at the self-employed rate. Then there's our new legal requirement to buy health insurance. If one truly has NO assets, and doesn't make five figures doing odd jobs, then there's no penalty for not having insurance. But if one is living off investments or savings and has to file taxes, that person either has to pay the penalty or purchase insurance. Hmm. Is there a state that will give free Medicaid to a healthy adult who chooses not to work?

abbynormal

There's all kinds of folks in the world, and although I think it would be grand for a time to do this, I really would not a permanent lifestyle living "out there". Vacation road-trips will be what I love. I do need to maintain my roots to an extent. Have a home-base in other words.

I am free to "move" to another area, but would stay in the US I'm fairly sure. If I don't find some groups to ride with, I might look/talk with folks that are in good ones, and consider a move. That's way down the line for me, well, a year maybe That's not so long I love reading stories about free-spirits, non-conformist type people. Again, I dream of what it might be like, but I will get as much of it as I can on my day-trips, as well as longer ones when I'm read for one denise

bud16415

I agree there are many systems that will work and if one wants to revert to a primitive way of live and live off the land it is their right to do that. Human life expectancy at different stages of human evolution were different. If someone is ok with a life expectancy of 20 years and eating for survival and being crippled by a broken bone that is their right. I’m in agreement. In fact there are many places where such a lifestyle is still the norm.

We can’t communicate with such people because their lifestyle precludes them from having things like the internet and such. Even paper and quill pens and ink require some human working to produce such items for them to communicate using and thus a dependent society.

What we are really talking about is what level most people would be happy reverting back to in order to preserve the capital that is the Earth and what level we would be willing to accept in order to un-enslave those competing life forms. Would reverting 200 years be the proper place to halt progress or would we revert 500 years.

If one person or a 1000 people want to go back to that simple life I don’t have an issue. But their convictions should be such to not take the benefits of an advanced culture without excepting the price the rest of humanity has to pay for those advancements.

I personally feel that advanced cultures don’t have to happen at the expense of everything else. But then again I realize how much earth has to be dug up for oar and how much electricity it takes to produce a bike frame and all the power required to make a bike out of it. Then there is the consumption of food required and the cost of energy to produce that food to ride the bike down the road a given distance. Even the simplest lifestyle today requires a lot of interaction from the rest of mankind.

My thoughts are if the planet needs saved it won’t happen from inactivity of us all in a simpler form of life based on the past unless the goal is to eliminate humans and do a reset. If humans stay then the process of saving would take more hard work not less.

BigAura

The no-money-guy I met told me that he voluntarily helps people and doesn't ask for any money. It seems that some would gift him with food, supplies, bike parts, and such. I have no idea if he has any insurance.

abbynormal

Even the frugal way I live, I don't want to give up some things either I'm glad we have the choice. But different strokes for different folks, the world would be so boring if we were all alike I keep mentioning how I admire people who up and go, giving up the more conventional lifestyle. But I so admire the man/woman that works the daily job, has a family, or just builds some roots where they are. There is a saying that says "grow where you are planted". Not everyone has the "call of the wild".

I do believe in folks that are very unhappy, just don't fit into a certain mold, that change their lives by going for what they want to. Lots of times people give that up for others, their families etc. That is real honor, putting others before ourselves. I think the rewards are great, I know plenty of people that would say the rewards out-weighed anything they thought they missed out on

bud16415

So true.

indyfabz

Wonder how many of them are really "trustafarians." I knew a couple people from my old 'hood who did very little to earn livings. Then I found out that their parents had bought them houses and set them up financially.


Personally, and having taken nearly two years off from the working world to, among other things, take three extended bike tours, I don't think I would enjoy living on the road permanently.


Plus, having good health care coverage is a major concern for me. I have a mechanical heart valve. If something goes wrong and it needs to be replaced, or if I were to develop complications from a blood clot, not having good health care could severely deplete, and possibly wipe out, my substantial savings. Since I doubt this country will catch up to many other developed countries with regard to health care, I doubt I will realize my dream of retiring when I reach age 55, which will be less than four years from now. My backup plan is to go at 60 and suck up the health care costs until age 65, assuming Medicare is still around. Another option I am going to explore to assist with future finances is a reverse mortgage. My house is paid off and I have no spouse or dependents to provide for and really no one to leave my assets to. But for now, I will take the trips that I can and enjoy other pursuits that my employment situation gives me the opportunity to afford.

abbynormal

Yes, healthcare is important for me also. I have a pacemaker, but the docs tell me mine is one of the least dangerous of heart conditions. I've been going strong since my first pacemaker in 97. I don't even need any meds. But being 63, things can come up, and I have to be smart, for me, I choose to keep those things in mind.

It would be nice to have a home-base with someone, where I could just come and go, but I don't have anyone like that in my life. So I just keep this apartment on the coast. I would like to spend that money elsewhere, but it's also nice to come home And into my elder years, I need to have a plan/home because I figure I'll live into my 90s, LOL!! My grandmother did, and I'm much like her

manapua_man

I was homeless (mostly by choice) for about 6 years until I got the degrees and the job(s) I wanted.


I prefer having stuff, and (more importantly) options. Everything sounds great until you realize you've painted yourself into a corner...

tcs

"The fair market value of the goods and services exchanged must be reported as income by both parties." USA IRS

TheLibrarian

1. plenty of people get paid cash at regularish jobs and dont report income so if you trade a hogs head for some goat skins it should be easy enough to hide this. 2. below a fair income (fair according to homeless vagabonds standards) you get free healthcare now, that is much better than what we pay for. 3. Teaching jobs do not allow for bike touring. Even fly by night english tutor schools expect employees to stay for a year or at least 6 months. There are some unpaid volunteer jobs like that which last 1-3 months. An actual teacher in an actual school is like any other job. You would get 2-3 months off to do as you wish and you could quit and bounce around as a teacher as much as you can quit any job. There all bubbles burst. You are stuck in your servitude to the trustifari.

I would love to do it though. Write, take photos, sell crafts or something along the way. I've been unemployed for years on end before so have kind of lived on little money but always had support of some kind. I'm not sure if the beauty of nature is worth eating poorly and not having a hot shower. I suppose we all make our own purpose in the world and enjoy what we do. Perhaps I have been enslaved by comfort and convenience.

BigAura

You can give away as much as $14,000 to anyone you want—or to each of as many people as you wish—without any tax considerations or burdensome paperwork. The recipient can be anyone you choose. IRS

boomhauer

The big draw of this life style for me is knowing that all the government land available (public lands) have been paid for by me, one way or the other. It is my land. I might as well use it to live on it temporarily (where legal). I don't know if I'm willing to sell my house to live permanently this way but it sure is tempting.

BigAura

That is true, US public lands have been designated for use by the public. Follow the rules and they are there for you (the public) to use.

BUT TAKE ONE STEP FARTHER BACK: The entire US is actually stolen property. So who really does the land belong to? The aboriginals who inhabited the lands for over 10,000 years or the current claimants who've claimed the land by force & adverse possession for a mere 200 years.

saddlesores

i left the usa just over a decade ago. sold all my stuff....house,
car, furniture, tools, bicycles (n=0), motorcyle....came to china
with two duffel bags of clothes. have been teaching for the past
five years which provides 3-1/2 months paid vacation annually.
pay is low, but accomodations are provided on campus, and
can easily make short trips to surrounding countries on long
weekends if desired.

had an AVR 8 years ago in india. i recommend. high quality
care at an afffordable price. total cost with airfare and hotels
was $12K. paid out of pocket. went with the beefsteak valve
to avoid dealing with coumadin. current expat health care
(expats not required to purchase obamacare!) will cover
next replacement, also includes repatriation....at $1k/year.

i can easily live on my savings here, actually just the interest.
in ten years will be able to collect a measly $700/month SSN.
(that's what happens when you spend too much time biking,
and not enough time working and paying into the system.)
still is more than enough to live on in thailand or phillipines,
two countries which offer retirement visa options.

plan is one more year in china, then bike across vietnam and
laos to thailand and retire. not sure if i'll buy a condo or
rent. (rent giving the option to change home base every few
years) then can get back into longer tours with my minimal
amount of stuff available in a nearby apartment.

tcs

So in answer to my question 'could an American citizen with no assets adopt the vagabond lifestyle legally?": according to BigAura in post 39, so long as the vagabond is purely begging (in a jurisdiction that doesn't have any laws against panhandling) and not , gasp, actually working for wages or bartering any goods or services, the cash and items they receive are gifts and not income. Voila, no income or FICA tax liability! Now according to TheLibrarian from New York in post 38, that state will give Medicaid health insurance to folks - healthy enough to cycle tour daily - who choose not to work and have no income. I tried to double check this on New York State's applicable web page but couldn't find a definitive answer, so at this point I'll accept TheLibrarian's claim. Also not sure what one would have to do to establish and maintain NY residency, but hopefully there's scope for one to winter along the Gulf Coast.

BigAura

Dang, you're bitter! PLUS you are WRONG in attributing me with something I never said. I NEVER used the words begging or panhandling. Here's the quote from me:

I later pointed out that the TAX system does allow for gifting without tax penalty. I'm guessing you think this tax "loophole" is just for rich folk to pass money to their rich kids and mistresses.

BY YOUR ABSURD REASONING: If you spent an in entire day helping a friend move and he showed you appreciation by feeding you pizza & beer and allowed you to stay in his guest-room. You would need to declare the room&board as income. OF COURSE NOT!

adablduya

first, we are all entitled to make our choices ......

living with possessions, or living minimally are fine, either way. either case, however, presumes that one can provide for himself and be self-sufficient. in my opinion.

the OP suggests having nothing and living free of possessions, duties, responsibilities. all fine and good. question i have is how does he provide for things like food, shelter, health care services ? does he have a mega-bankroll that finances this lifestyle or is he penniless ? is he a dumpster diver ? does he hunt ? does he sleep under bridges ? however he can make his own way, good for him.

or does he rely on the generosity of others for food and shelter? does he rely on emergency room visits or medicaid, at the taxpayers cost ? if this is the case, then the OP is really nothing but a vagrant, a bum, a hobo. nothing personal, but that is what i call a loser.

abbynormal

And if you give now, I can run down and get that Recumbent Trike I want, and a down-payment on that house with double-garage

BigAura

The OP has not posted in 7 years so we don't know how it turned out.

Roughstuff

I have no real possessions and have lived on and off my bicycle for most of the last decade or so. From time to time (like now) I find a place that offers room and board i exchange for limited volunteer, maintenance, and watchman duties. I have a cute little social security check that comes once a month and earn other income from stock trading, dividends, options, and writing from time to time; but most of the time when I am touring I am doing that (riding) and the others are a distinct secondary.

indyfabz

So you don't really have a cabin in the Adirondacks?

tcs

Same planet, different worlds.