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  1. #1
    Downtown Spanky Brown bautieri's Avatar
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    Trivial Questions

    Hi and thanks for reading

    So I pretty much have my heart set on buying a LHT to replace my current stable. I want one bike to replace my road bike and my commuter mountain bike and I think the LHT is going to be a great fit.

    I do however admit to being a bit of a speed junky which leads me to the following questions.

    If I set my LHT up with slicks, how much speed can I expect to loose while unloaded? I know it's a bit trivial but that is the only nagging concern that I left about this bike. I've test rode one and I love the way it feels and how it soaks up road chatter, however I havenít had the chance to take one out on group ride.

    Dollars for doughnuts the LHT appears to be the best deal of the bunch when considering the component mix, I could be mistaken so correct me if I am wrong. All things considered with the type of riding I want to do short tours, have front/rear racks, fenders, commuting, group rides, and rail trails. Would you in your infinite wisdom recommend the LHT as the best choice for an all rounder or should I look for something a tad more sporty such as the Cross Check, Aurora, or the Velope? Bar ends vs STI is not that big of a deal to me.

    Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bautieri View Post
    ... If I set my LHT up with slicks, how much speed can I expect to loose while unloaded? ...
    I've read that eight times and I still can't figure it out Putting slicks on -- as opposed to knobbies or deep tread -- will boost your speed. Simple physics.

    You're a self-confessed speed junky, so maybe you're coming at this from the wrong angle. If you want to go fast and outrun your riding group, keep your road bike. Use the LHT for fast day rides, leisurely weekends, and touring.

    Or if you don't good reasons for having both bikes, get the LHT and don't worry about keeping up with the racers.

    -- Mark

  3. #3
    Senior Member juggleaddict's Avatar
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    You'll be riding in so much comfort you'll want it to take longer. . . right

  4. #4
    Senior Member Cyclebum's Avatar
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    As with most compromises, one bicycle will do a little of everything but only one thing well. That's exactly why most cyclist stable several bicycles.

    Just depends on how much compromising you're willing to do. The LHT is great for touring, just OK for most everything else, and useless for serious off road.

  5. #5
    Downtown Spanky Brown bautieri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmmCeeBee View Post
    I've read that eight times and I still can't figure it out
    Yeah that was definatly a head-asploshion statement wasn't it? I guess what it was getting at was that all things being equal (tire size/tread pattern, weather, load carried) what would the preformance difference be? The more I think about it, the more I think it would be a wash. A LHT is not a road bike and my road bike will never offer the versatility that an LHT could. Somewhat like the hot-rod vs. mini-van argument.

    This is a self (and spousal) impossed one bike limit. If I bought every type of bicycle I desired I would need to rent additional storage space.

    Thanks folks!

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    The LHT is hands down the most versatile bike I have ever owned.
    It is not particularly fast.
    It is not particularly light.
    It can handle A LOT of weight, with proper racks. (Carried at least 100 lbs over the weekend)
    It is very stable, smooth, and is a soft ride (with good tires).
    It is great for commuting and hauling stuff.
    It is not great for racing or heavy off road use.

    I love mine. It all depends on how you configure it.
    Ride.
    Enjoy.
    Repeat.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bautieri View Post
    I guess what it was getting at was that all things being equal (tire size/tread pattern, weather, load carried) what would the preformance difference be?
    It's still not very clear. The difference between what and what?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bautieri View Post
    I do however admit to being a bit of a speed junky which leads me to the following questions.
    I think whether or not the LHT would work for you here is the (average) speed you are talking about here. You should provide more details about the kind of group riding you do or want to do.

    I use a similar bike on group rides and I haven't reached the speed limit on it yet.

    If you are planning on touring, a touring bike would be a reasonable compromise. If you are not touring, you might want to make sure some of the other options don't work for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by bautieri View Post
    This is a self (and spousal) impossed one bike limit. If I bought every type of bicycle I desired I would need to rent additional storage space.
    It's not clear why you'd have to get rid of stuff you have already paid for. If it's a space issue, it's possible that one of your friends would let you keep your bike(s) at their place.

    As far as I can tell, you really only "need" at most 4 bicycles (touring, fast road, mountain bike, full suspension mountain bike).

    ========================

    Quote Originally Posted by John Nelson View Post
    It's still not very clear. The difference between what and what?
    I think it would be easy to guess that it's the difference between an LHT with "fast" tires and a "fast" road bike.

    If the average speed is about 17 mph, the difference is likely minimal. If the average speed is 22+mph or with lots of climbs, the difference might be significant enough to be an issue.

    The major contribution to the difference would be the wheels (maybe, you can get a lighter set of wheels for your group rides).
    Last edited by njkayaker; 06-08-09 at 04:28 PM.

  9. #9
    Twincities MN kuan's Avatar
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    You should talk to El Pelon. He regularly smokes roadies on his LHT.

  10. #10
    eternalvoyage
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    This one might also be worth a look: http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/thebik...roraelite.html

    The LHT is a bit heavy. Some people might prefer a lighter weight; for others, it doesn't matter much.

  11. #11
    Senior Member BigBlueToe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crawdaddio View Post
    The LHT is hands down the most versatile bike I have ever owned.
    It is not particularly fast.
    It is not particularly light.
    It can handle A LOT of weight, with proper racks. (Carried at least 100 lbs over the weekend)
    It is very stable, smooth, and is a soft ride (with good tires).
    It is great for commuting and hauling stuff.
    It is not great for racing or heavy off road use.

    I love mine. It all depends on how you configure it.
    +1

    My LHT is great for touring and okay for everything else. If I could have only one bike, the LHT would be it, because I'm a confirmed tourer. However, I also have an Allez, which I use for local rides/centuries/etc. It's a bit better for those applications than the LHT, but I certainly wouldn't want to take it touring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bautieri View Post
    ...If I set my LHT up with slicks, how much speed can I expect to loose while unloaded?...
    Thanks!
    If you are riding round trips (equal ups and downs) and not generally in a pace line then you will not see any measurable difference in average speed relative to your road bike!

  13. #13
    Senior Member robow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Smokester View Post
    If you are riding round trips (equal ups and downs) and not generally in a pace line then you will not see any measurable difference in average speed relative to your road bike!
    Which is exactly why the Pro Peloton is all clamoring to get their hands on LHT's since it would make their daily 6 hour rides more comfortable without losing any speed. No, seriously, I just read it on the interwebs.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by robow View Post
    Which is exactly why the Pro Peloton is all clamoring to get their hands on LHT's since it would make their daily 6 hour rides more comfortable without losing any speed. No, seriously, I just read it on the interwebs.
    What's appropriate for a member of the "Pro Peloton" might not be appropriate for a more typical rider and vice-versa. Especially, if that rider is looking for one bike for a wide range of purposes.

    We really have no idea how fast bautieri is talking about. If he's riding at a pro-level, it's quite likely he would have not asked the question.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    ...
    As far as I can tell, you really only "need" at most 4 bicycles (touring, fast road, mountain bike, full suspension mountain bike).
    ...
    You just described my stable.

    I never ride my 520 (similar to LHT) on group rides - I would be dropped like a rock. Road bike for road / group rides, tour bike for touring and the grocery store, FS MTB for MTB'ing, and hardtail just because I wouldn't get any money selling it and it's a nice bike.

    The LHT would be a fine commuter, a crummy MTB, and a crummy group/fast bike.
    ...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by valygrl View Post
    You just described my stable.
    Or your problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by valygrl View Post
    I never ride my 520 (similar to LHT) on group rides - I would be dropped like a rock. Road bike for road / group rides, tour bike for touring and the grocery store, FS MTB for MTB'ing, and hardtail just because I wouldn't get any money selling it and it's a nice bike.

    The LHT would be a fine commuter, a crummy MTB, and a crummy group/fast bike.
    The LHT whould be fine for riding on dirt/gravel but it isn't a MTB.

    I have a MTB with no suspension (it's really old) and a 30lb tourer. The tourer works fine for me on group rides. It's possible that the tourer would not allow me to keep up with the fastest-paced group in my club but I haven't hit the limit of the speed on the bike yet.

    Given your weight and where you ride, I'd agree that you are out of the range of an LHT being anywhere near reasonable for group rides.

    We don't really have enough information to tell whether LHT would really be "crummy" for the original poster on group rides. We have no idea what kind of group he is trying to keep up with.

    He is certainly asking for a lot out of one bicycle.

    Quote Originally Posted by bautieri View Post
    All things considered with the type of riding I want to do short tours, have front/rear racks, fenders, commuting, group rides, and rail trails. Would you in your infinite wisdom recommend the LHT as the best choice for an all rounder or should I look for something a tad more sporty such as the Cross Check, Aurora, or the Velope?
    The others are worth looking at too. Keep in mind the tire clearance for the tires you want to be able to use. People seem to do fine with the Aurora for loaded touring.
    Last edited by njkayaker; 06-09-09 at 01:49 PM.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Speedo's Avatar
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    Not to knock the LHT, but if the OP is only going to do short tours, then maybe something a little sportier might be in order

    Soma Smoothie ES
    Salsa Casseroll
    Co-Motion Nor'Wester

    If you get up into the Co-Motion price range, then a custom, like this Bilenky, which is owned by Bike Forums member foamy, really is the absolute pinnacle of an all-around bike. (edit) foamy's bilenky review can be found here. (/edit)

    Speedo
    Last edited by Speedo; 06-10-09 at 10:37 AM. Reason: update on information

  18. #18
    Senior Member robow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    What's appropriate for a member of the "Pro Peloton" might not be appropriate for a more typical rider and vice-versa. Especially, if that rider is looking for one bike for a wide range of purposes.

    We really have no idea how fast bautieri is talking about. If he's riding at a pro-level, it's quite likely he would have not asked the question.
    I didn't state that it might not be an excellent bike for the OP (if you read my post in respect to whom I quoted) but I was merely poking fun at the idea that a bike which weighs 14 lbs more than another bike is not going to be inherently slower.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by robow View Post
    I didn't state that it might not be an excellent bike for the OP (if you read my post in respect to whom I quoted) but I was merely poking fun at the idea that a bike which weighs 14 lbs more than another bike is not going to be inherently slower.
    You didn't state anything germane to the thread.

    Anyway, if you read the post you were replying to, it's fairly clear that the "Pro Peloton" is being excluded (in an indirect way). Note, too, that he wasn't saying it would not be "slower". He was only saying you would not be able to measure the difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Smokester View Post
    If you are riding round trips (equal ups and downs) and not generally in a pace line then you will not see any measurable difference in average speed relative to your road bike!
    Anyway, given the riding he wants to do, the original poster isn't talking about buying a 15lb bike. He's probably looking at a 20lb bike. And that would be a difference of 10lbs on top of the the weight of the bicycle plus the weight of the rider (which we have no idea about).
    Last edited by njkayaker; 06-09-09 at 03:39 PM.

  20. #20
    Senior Member robow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    You didn't state anything germain to the thread.

    Note, too, that he wasn't saying it would not be "slower". He was only saying you would not be able to measure the difference.
    Believe me, strip 14 lbs of frame weight and you can measure the difference in speed on the flats as well as up an incline. That was the only point that I was making. And BTW, the word is "germane" and not "germain". You are correct, I'm no Saint.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by robow View Post
    Believe me, strip 14 lbs of frame weight and you can measure the difference in speed on the flats as well as up an incline. That was the only point that I was making.
    What is the actual difference in speed on the flats? What is the actual difference in speed on the inclines? For what kind of rider? At what kind of base speeds?

    The weight does matter most on the hills.

    Are we talking about a 0.1%, 1%, 10%, 100% difference in speed?

    Given the stuff the original poster wants to do with it, he isn't looking at saving 14lbs.

    I certainly have ridden with people with bicycles much lighter than mine who don't have any advantage from it because they don't really use their gears properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by robow View Post
    And BTW, the word is "germane" and not "germain". You are correct, I'm no Saint.
    Fixed.
    Last edited by njkayaker; 06-09-09 at 03:55 PM.

  22. #22
    Neil_B
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Nelson View Post
    It's still not very clear. The difference between what and what?
    The difference between Bautieri's road bike and a LHT. He wants to know how much speed he'll lose switching from an aluminum road bike to an all-steel touring bike.

    Here's Bau and his roadie:




  23. #23
    Senior Member tarwheel's Avatar
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    Here's my 2 cents. If there is any way you can store two bikes, I would keep your road bike and add a LHT. If not, then get a sport touring bike like a Salsa Casseroll, Soma ES, etc. I can keep up just fine on "B" group rides -- eg, 17-18 mph average -- on my Bob Jackson World Tour if I remove the rack, large seatbag, head and tail-lights and other gear that make it a great commuter. However, it's a pain removing all that gear (and replacing it later) just for a single long group ride on the weekends. So I generally leave my touring bike set up for commuting and ride one of my other road bikes on group rides. IMHO, if you ride a lot you need two functioning bikes anyway so you have something to ride when one of them is getting worked on, gets a flat at the last minute before leaving the house, breaks a spoke, etc.

  24. #24
    Downtown Spanky Brown bautieri's Avatar
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    Thank you all for the input. To answer a few recurring questions:

    Body Weight: +/- 200lbs
    Average speed on roadie: 18mph
    Top Speed on roadie: 51mph (never again btw)
    Target speed for touring bike: 15-18mph given a similar level of effort.
    Pro Peloton: Far from it, wouldn't be interested in a touring bike to replace my current rides if I was. I would also own a better bike.

    I think I am going to keep the road bike and take a look at some of the suggestions above for a sportier touring machine. It’s not a space issue, I just can’t stand clutter. I don’t want to dismiss the idea of a touring bike altogether as I love the idea of the versatility it can offer.

    Once again, thank you all for your input. I have much to mull over now.

  25. #25
    ah.... sure. kayakdiver's Avatar
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    2 bikes. I can ride my touring bike on group rides and keep up. Or I can ride my roadie on group rides and kick a ss and take names. Wonder what one I want to ride in groups?

    Figure out a way to dispose of some non bike related crap and make room for the new ride.
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