Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Touring Have a dream to ride a bike across your state, across the country, or around the world? Self-contained or fully supported? Trade ideas, adventures, and more in our bicycle touring forum.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-08-09, 09:01 AM   #1
bautieri
Downtown Spanky Brown
Thread Starter
 
bautieri's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Camp Hill, Pennsyltucky
Bikes: 14 Motobecane Phantom Cross Pro 2000 Kona Lana'I
Posts: 2,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Trivial Questions

Hi and thanks for reading

So I pretty much have my heart set on buying a LHT to replace my current stable. I want one bike to replace my road bike and my commuter mountain bike and I think the LHT is going to be a great fit.

I do however admit to being a bit of a speed junky which leads me to the following questions.

If I set my LHT up with slicks, how much speed can I expect to loose while unloaded? I know it's a bit trivial but that is the only nagging concern that I left about this bike. I've test rode one and I love the way it feels and how it soaks up road chatter, however I havenít had the chance to take one out on group ride.

Dollars for doughnuts the LHT appears to be the best deal of the bunch when considering the component mix, I could be mistaken so correct me if I am wrong. All things considered with the type of riding I want to do short tours, have front/rear racks, fenders, commuting, group rides, and rail trails. Would you in your infinite wisdom recommend the LHT as the best choice for an all rounder or should I look for something a tad more sporty such as the Cross Check, Aurora, or the Velope? Bar ends vs STI is not that big of a deal to me.

Thanks!
bautieri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-09, 09:40 AM   #2
EmmCeeBee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SW Washington, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 373
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bautieri View Post
... If I set my LHT up with slicks, how much speed can I expect to loose while unloaded? ...
I've read that eight times and I still can't figure it out Putting slicks on -- as opposed to knobbies or deep tread -- will boost your speed. Simple physics.

You're a self-confessed speed junky, so maybe you're coming at this from the wrong angle. If you want to go fast and outrun your riding group, keep your road bike. Use the LHT for fast day rides, leisurely weekends, and touring.

Or if you don't good reasons for having both bikes, get the LHT and don't worry about keeping up with the racers.

-- Mark
EmmCeeBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-09, 09:53 AM   #3
juggleaddict
Senior Member
 
juggleaddict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Atlanta
Bikes: LHT
Posts: 866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You'll be riding in so much comfort you'll want it to take longer. . . right
juggleaddict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-09, 10:06 AM   #4
Cyclebum 
Senior Member
 
Cyclebum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NE Tx
Bikes: Tour Easy, Linear USS, Lightening Thunderbolt, custom DF, Raleigh hybrid, Felt time trial
Posts: 2,768
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
As with most compromises, one bicycle will do a little of everything but only one thing well. That's exactly why most cyclist stable several bicycles.

Just depends on how much compromising you're willing to do. The LHT is great for touring, just OK for most everything else, and useless for serious off road.
Cyclebum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-09, 10:41 AM   #5
bautieri
Downtown Spanky Brown
Thread Starter
 
bautieri's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Camp Hill, Pennsyltucky
Bikes: 14 Motobecane Phantom Cross Pro 2000 Kona Lana'I
Posts: 2,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmmCeeBee View Post
I've read that eight times and I still can't figure it out
Yeah that was definatly a head-asploshion statement wasn't it? I guess what it was getting at was that all things being equal (tire size/tread pattern, weather, load carried) what would the preformance difference be? The more I think about it, the more I think it would be a wash. A LHT is not a road bike and my road bike will never offer the versatility that an LHT could. Somewhat like the hot-rod vs. mini-van argument.

This is a self (and spousal) impossed one bike limit. If I bought every type of bicycle I desired I would need to rent additional storage space.

Thanks folks!
bautieri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-09, 02:40 PM   #6
crawdaddio
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 502
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The LHT is hands down the most versatile bike I have ever owned.
It is not particularly fast.
It is not particularly light.
It can handle A LOT of weight, with proper racks. (Carried at least 100 lbs over the weekend)
It is very stable, smooth, and is a soft ride (with good tires).
It is great for commuting and hauling stuff.
It is not great for racing or heavy off road use.

I love mine. It all depends on how you configure it.
crawdaddio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-09, 04:03 PM   #7
John Nelson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 537
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bautieri View Post
I guess what it was getting at was that all things being equal (tire size/tread pattern, weather, load carried) what would the preformance difference be?
It's still not very clear. The difference between what and what?
John Nelson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-09, 04:16 PM   #8
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 9,636
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 206 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bautieri View Post
I do however admit to being a bit of a speed junky which leads me to the following questions.
I think whether or not the LHT would work for you here is the (average) speed you are talking about here. You should provide more details about the kind of group riding you do or want to do.

I use a similar bike on group rides and I haven't reached the speed limit on it yet.

If you are planning on touring, a touring bike would be a reasonable compromise. If you are not touring, you might want to make sure some of the other options don't work for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bautieri View Post
This is a self (and spousal) impossed one bike limit. If I bought every type of bicycle I desired I would need to rent additional storage space.
It's not clear why you'd have to get rid of stuff you have already paid for. If it's a space issue, it's possible that one of your friends would let you keep your bike(s) at their place.

As far as I can tell, you really only "need" at most 4 bicycles (touring, fast road, mountain bike, full suspension mountain bike).

========================

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Nelson View Post
It's still not very clear. The difference between what and what?
I think it would be easy to guess that it's the difference between an LHT with "fast" tires and a "fast" road bike.

If the average speed is about 17 mph, the difference is likely minimal. If the average speed is 22+mph or with lots of climbs, the difference might be significant enough to be an issue.

The major contribution to the difference would be the wheels (maybe, you can get a lighter set of wheels for your group rides).

Last edited by njkayaker; 06-08-09 at 04:28 PM.
njkayaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-09, 04:55 PM   #9
kuan
Twincities MN
 
kuan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Salsa, Cannondale, Surly.
Bikes:
Posts: 2,527
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You should talk to El Pelon. He regularly smokes roadies on his LHT.
__________________
www.marrow.org
kuan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-09, 05:03 PM   #10
Niles H.
eternalvoyage
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 2,360
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This one might also be worth a look: http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/thebik...roraelite.html

The LHT is a bit heavy. Some people might prefer a lighter weight; for others, it doesn't matter much.
Niles H. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-09, 08:34 AM   #11
BigBlueToe
Senior Member
 
BigBlueToe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Central Coast, CA
Bikes: Surly LHT, Specialized Rockhopper, Nashbar Touring (old), Specialized Stumpjumper (older), Nishiki Tourer (model unknown)
Posts: 3,393
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by crawdaddio View Post
The LHT is hands down the most versatile bike I have ever owned.
It is not particularly fast.
It is not particularly light.
It can handle A LOT of weight, with proper racks. (Carried at least 100 lbs over the weekend)
It is very stable, smooth, and is a soft ride (with good tires).
It is great for commuting and hauling stuff.
It is not great for racing or heavy off road use.

I love mine. It all depends on how you configure it.
+1

My LHT is great for touring and okay for everything else. If I could have only one bike, the LHT would be it, because I'm a confirmed tourer. However, I also have an Allez, which I use for local rides/centuries/etc. It's a bit better for those applications than the LHT, but I certainly wouldn't want to take it touring.
BigBlueToe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-09, 10:13 AM   #12
The Smokester
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: N. California
Bikes:
Posts: 1,410
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bautieri View Post
...If I set my LHT up with slicks, how much speed can I expect to loose while unloaded?...
Thanks!
If you are riding round trips (equal ups and downs) and not generally in a pace line then you will not see any measurable difference in average speed relative to your road bike!
The Smokester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-09, 10:42 AM   #13
robow
Senior Member
 
robow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 2,835
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Smokester View Post
If you are riding round trips (equal ups and downs) and not generally in a pace line then you will not see any measurable difference in average speed relative to your road bike!
Which is exactly why the Pro Peloton is all clamoring to get their hands on LHT's since it would make their daily 6 hour rides more comfortable without losing any speed. No, seriously, I just read it on the interwebs.
robow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-09, 11:12 AM   #14
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 9,636
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 206 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by robow View Post
Which is exactly why the Pro Peloton is all clamoring to get their hands on LHT's since it would make their daily 6 hour rides more comfortable without losing any speed. No, seriously, I just read it on the interwebs.
What's appropriate for a member of the "Pro Peloton" might not be appropriate for a more typical rider and vice-versa. Especially, if that rider is looking for one bike for a wide range of purposes.

We really have no idea how fast bautieri is talking about. If he's riding at a pro-level, it's quite likely he would have not asked the question.
njkayaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-09, 12:18 PM   #15
valygrl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Boulder, CO
Bikes:
Posts: 8,369
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
...
As far as I can tell, you really only "need" at most 4 bicycles (touring, fast road, mountain bike, full suspension mountain bike).
...
You just described my stable.

I never ride my 520 (similar to LHT) on group rides - I would be dropped like a rock. Road bike for road / group rides, tour bike for touring and the grocery store, FS MTB for MTB'ing, and hardtail just because I wouldn't get any money selling it and it's a nice bike.

The LHT would be a fine commuter, a crummy MTB, and a crummy group/fast bike.
valygrl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-09, 01:40 PM   #16
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 9,636
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 206 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by valygrl View Post
You just described my stable.
Or your problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by valygrl View Post
I never ride my 520 (similar to LHT) on group rides - I would be dropped like a rock. Road bike for road / group rides, tour bike for touring and the grocery store, FS MTB for MTB'ing, and hardtail just because I wouldn't get any money selling it and it's a nice bike.

The LHT would be a fine commuter, a crummy MTB, and a crummy group/fast bike.
The LHT whould be fine for riding on dirt/gravel but it isn't a MTB.

I have a MTB with no suspension (it's really old) and a 30lb tourer. The tourer works fine for me on group rides. It's possible that the tourer would not allow me to keep up with the fastest-paced group in my club but I haven't hit the limit of the speed on the bike yet.

Given your weight and where you ride, I'd agree that you are out of the range of an LHT being anywhere near reasonable for group rides.

We don't really have enough information to tell whether LHT would really be "crummy" for the original poster on group rides. We have no idea what kind of group he is trying to keep up with.

He is certainly asking for a lot out of one bicycle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bautieri View Post
All things considered with the type of riding I want to do short tours, have front/rear racks, fenders, commuting, group rides, and rail trails. Would you in your infinite wisdom recommend the LHT as the best choice for an all rounder or should I look for something a tad more sporty such as the Cross Check, Aurora, or the Velope?
The others are worth looking at too. Keep in mind the tire clearance for the tires you want to be able to use. People seem to do fine with the Aurora for loaded touring.

Last edited by njkayaker; 06-09-09 at 01:49 PM.
njkayaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-09, 02:02 PM   #17
Speedo
Senior Member
 
Speedo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston Area
Bikes: Univega Gran Turismo, Guerciotti, Bridgestone MB2, Bike Friday New World Tourist, Serotta Ti
Posts: 1,998
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Not to knock the LHT, but if the OP is only going to do short tours, then maybe something a little sportier might be in order

Soma Smoothie ES
Salsa Casseroll
Co-Motion Nor'Wester

If you get up into the Co-Motion price range, then a custom, like this Bilenky, which is owned by Bike Forums member foamy, really is the absolute pinnacle of an all-around bike. (edit) foamy's bilenky review can be found here. (/edit)

Speedo

Last edited by Speedo; 06-10-09 at 10:37 AM. Reason: update on information
Speedo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-09, 02:33 PM   #18
robow
Senior Member
 
robow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 2,835
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
What's appropriate for a member of the "Pro Peloton" might not be appropriate for a more typical rider and vice-versa. Especially, if that rider is looking for one bike for a wide range of purposes.

We really have no idea how fast bautieri is talking about. If he's riding at a pro-level, it's quite likely he would have not asked the question.
I didn't state that it might not be an excellent bike for the OP (if you read my post in respect to whom I quoted) but I was merely poking fun at the idea that a bike which weighs 14 lbs more than another bike is not going to be inherently slower.
robow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-09, 02:43 PM   #19
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 9,636
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 206 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by robow View Post
I didn't state that it might not be an excellent bike for the OP (if you read my post in respect to whom I quoted) but I was merely poking fun at the idea that a bike which weighs 14 lbs more than another bike is not going to be inherently slower.
You didn't state anything germane to the thread.

Anyway, if you read the post you were replying to, it's fairly clear that the "Pro Peloton" is being excluded (in an indirect way). Note, too, that he wasn't saying it would not be "slower". He was only saying you would not be able to measure the difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Smokester View Post
If you are riding round trips (equal ups and downs) and not generally in a pace line then you will not see any measurable difference in average speed relative to your road bike!
Anyway, given the riding he wants to do, the original poster isn't talking about buying a 15lb bike. He's probably looking at a 20lb bike. And that would be a difference of 10lbs on top of the the weight of the bicycle plus the weight of the rider (which we have no idea about).

Last edited by njkayaker; 06-09-09 at 03:39 PM.
njkayaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-09, 03:30 PM   #20
robow
Senior Member
 
robow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 2,835
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
You didn't state anything germain to the thread.

Note, too, that he wasn't saying it would not be "slower". He was only saying you would not be able to measure the difference.
Believe me, strip 14 lbs of frame weight and you can measure the difference in speed on the flats as well as up an incline. That was the only point that I was making. And BTW, the word is "germane" and not "germain". You are correct, I'm no Saint.
robow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-09, 03:50 PM   #21
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 9,636
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 206 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by robow View Post
Believe me, strip 14 lbs of frame weight and you can measure the difference in speed on the flats as well as up an incline. That was the only point that I was making.
What is the actual difference in speed on the flats? What is the actual difference in speed on the inclines? For what kind of rider? At what kind of base speeds?

The weight does matter most on the hills.

Are we talking about a 0.1%, 1%, 10%, 100% difference in speed?

Given the stuff the original poster wants to do with it, he isn't looking at saving 14lbs.

I certainly have ridden with people with bicycles much lighter than mine who don't have any advantage from it because they don't really use their gears properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robow View Post
And BTW, the word is "germane" and not "germain". You are correct, I'm no Saint.
Fixed.

Last edited by njkayaker; 06-09-09 at 03:55 PM.
njkayaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-09, 10:18 PM   #22
Neil_B
Guest
 
Bikes:
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Nelson View Post
It's still not very clear. The difference between what and what?
The difference between Bautieri's road bike and a LHT. He wants to know how much speed he'll lose switching from an aluminum road bike to an all-steel touring bike.

Here's Bau and his roadie:



  Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-09, 05:55 AM   #23
tarwheel 
Senior Member
 
tarwheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
Bikes: Waterford RST-22, Bob Jackson World Tour, Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Soma Saga, De Bernardi SL, Specialized Sequoia
Posts: 8,623
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Here's my 2 cents. If there is any way you can store two bikes, I would keep your road bike and add a LHT. If not, then get a sport touring bike like a Salsa Casseroll, Soma ES, etc. I can keep up just fine on "B" group rides -- eg, 17-18 mph average -- on my Bob Jackson World Tour if I remove the rack, large seatbag, head and tail-lights and other gear that make it a great commuter. However, it's a pain removing all that gear (and replacing it later) just for a single long group ride on the weekends. So I generally leave my touring bike set up for commuting and ride one of my other road bikes on group rides. IMHO, if you ride a lot you need two functioning bikes anyway so you have something to ride when one of them is getting worked on, gets a flat at the last minute before leaving the house, breaks a spoke, etc.
tarwheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-09, 07:24 AM   #24
bautieri
Downtown Spanky Brown
Thread Starter
 
bautieri's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Camp Hill, Pennsyltucky
Bikes: 14 Motobecane Phantom Cross Pro 2000 Kona Lana'I
Posts: 2,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thank you all for the input. To answer a few recurring questions:

Body Weight: +/- 200lbs
Average speed on roadie: 18mph
Top Speed on roadie: 51mph (never again btw)
Target speed for touring bike: 15-18mph given a similar level of effort.
Pro Peloton: Far from it, wouldn't be interested in a touring bike to replace my current rides if I was. I would also own a better bike.

I think I am going to keep the road bike and take a look at some of the suggestions above for a sportier touring machine. It’s not a space issue, I just can’t stand clutter. I don’t want to dismiss the idea of a touring bike altogether as I love the idea of the versatility it can offer.

Once again, thank you all for your input. I have much to mull over now.
bautieri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-09, 08:16 AM   #25
kayakdiver
ah.... sure.
 
kayakdiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Whidbey Island WA
Bikes: Specialized.... schwinn..... enough to fill my needs..
Posts: 4,107
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
2 bikes. I can ride my touring bike on group rides and keep up. Or I can ride my roadie on group rides and kick a ss and take names. Wonder what one I want to ride in groups?

Figure out a way to dispose of some non bike related crap and make room for the new ride.
kayakdiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:07 AM.