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Best cheap touring bike frame?

Old 06-13-09, 01:10 PM
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Best cheap touring bike frame?

I'd like to build a touring bike, but I'm on a bit of a budget. The Nashbar aluminum touring bike frame looks nice: it supports both 130 and 135mm rear wheels, is immune to rust, has several positive reviews on Nashbar (though I have a sneaky suspicion they trim off the negative reviews), and is extremely cheap - $120 during their frequent 20% off sales. I've already got a fork (Nashbar CF cyclocross fork - I wanted a front disc so I can stop in the rain, and I figured I'd spend the extra $65 for better ride quality and less rust), so I don't really need one of those. Should I buy it? Or would I be better off with something used?

NOTE:

Anyone saying "Long Haul Trucker" will immediately be tracked down and given the benefit of a LART. I don't have $400 to spend on a frame. If someone wants to sell me a used LHT frame sized 57-60CM, then I'll consider it.

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Old 06-13-09, 02:50 PM
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don't think ive read any bad reviews on here....which i would take more seriously anyway. i wouldn't hesitate to get one at that price (plus nashbar has a 20% off right now) i think that might be your only 'cheap' choice without scouring craigs list and ebay.

the 80's and some early 90s mountain bike frames share a lot of the characteristics of a touring frame...so you might look there.
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Old 06-13-09, 04:21 PM
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Kogswell was selliing a batch of their P/R frame/fork for about $169 earlier this year. This was not advertised, so you'd need to email them. They're tig welded steel.

I take it you live in the rust belt. Lots of people use steel frames though, and unless you're riding on salted roads all winter and not rinsing the bike, steel does just fine.

People buy Nashbar frames because they're cheap. Nothing wrong with that. Just get one, they have a 100% guaranteed satisfaction return policy you know.. . . so if it sucks or is defective . . return it.
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Old 06-13-09, 09:28 PM
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How about a Miyata 610 frame and fork on e-Bay 250441380490
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Old 06-13-09, 10:26 PM
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I'm a cheap ******* and always watching for deals.

I bought a complete Cannondale 63cm T700 with 8speed Brifters (Green bike the drops and STI's were included) off Craigslist Thursday for $350. Need to transfer the goodies off my other one. I will probably be selling a complete 58CM 1995 T700 (Blue) for around the same price starting If I don't decide to set it up like a Randoneer for a Sunday rider. I'll be keeping the 9speed stuff and putting it back to stock if I sell it.

The deals are out there but it may take a while or be willing to drive if you are not in a major city.


I am thinking about adding that Disc front fork as well after a real good scare in the rain a couple weeks ago. See if my Auto body shop can match the paint.

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Old 06-13-09, 10:59 PM
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Budget touring bikes:

https://thelazyrandonneur.blogspot.co...ing-bikes.html
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Old 06-13-09, 11:14 PM
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My Nashbar touring frame build turned out to be a pretty sweet ride.

Of course I spent nearly as much building it up as I could have gotten the nice Randonnee I nearly bought on sale at REI. <facepalm>
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Old 06-13-09, 11:17 PM
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Bruce Gordon is selling some frames made overseas with front and rear racks for less than 1k. I have owned a LHT and I currently own a Rivendell Atlantis, but if I had to buy a touring bike now, I would get the BG. It may be made overseas, but I would bet the BG has made sure that it is worthy of carrying his name.
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Old 06-13-09, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Garthr
I take it you live in the rust belt. Lots of people use steel frames though, and unless you're riding on salted roads all winter and not rinsing the bike, steel does just fine.
I'm more worried about something seizing, though it's probably the drivetrain that I should worry about. (How do you keep your cogs and chain from corroding, anyway?) I don't have much money for this project, and quite a lot of it is going into the wheels - some of the roads around here are bad enough to cause damage to cars.

I'm also a bit unsure of what frame to buy. I'm thinking of jumping up to 60CM - past experience has taught me that I'm best off with my rear end not much higher than my hands and a really really long top tube.

Originally Posted by Garthr
Kogswell was selliing a batch of their P/R frame/fork for about $169 earlier this year. This was not advertised, so you'd need to email them. They're tig welded steel.
Worth a look.
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Old 06-13-09, 11:28 PM
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You can get a used steel 80's mountain bike for under $200 (even less) if you're patient. Even if you end up replacing half the parts it's a pretty inexpensive way to build a tourer.
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Old 06-13-09, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by BengeBoy
You can get a used steel 80's mountain bike for under $200 (even less) if you're patient. Even if you end up replacing half the parts it's a pretty inexpensive way to build a tourer.
I'm shooting for having one (and only one) bike. More than that is a nightmare for storage.

Also, I've learned something: Old used equipment will usually fail, and do so at the least convenient time.

The Nashbar frame is particularly convenient as I'm still waffling over whether to go for an IGH (135mm or bust) or derailleur system. The derailleur system has a wider gear range, smaller spacing between the gears, supports a wide range of convenient shifters, and is far more efficient than an IGH....but the latter is cheaper, is almost completely immune to rain and salt, and is far cheaper and simpler to maintain.
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Old 06-14-09, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Spasticteapot
I'm more worried about something seizing, though it's probably the drivetrain that I should worry about. (How do you keep your cogs and chain from corroding, anyway?) I don't have much money for this project, and quite a lot of it is going into the wheels - some of the roads around here are bad enough to cause damage to cars.

I'm also a bit unsure of what frame to buy. I'm thinking of jumping up to 60CM - past experience has taught me that I'm best off with my rear end not much higher than my hands and a really really long top tube.



If your concern is seizing, Al is no panacea. Al and steel don't play well together.. . and considering every part you thread into your frame is steel, in a corrosive environment I'd rather have steel on steel.

Keeping the drive train from rust? Rinse with water and lube. The commuting forum may have some great info about year round riding in the rust belt. Some prefer to get a beater bike and not worry too much about it other than lubing it.

I'm with you about fit. Your favorite had position near your seat height and as long a TT as you can get. Using a slight shorter stem is preferred to using a longer one, from my experience with tall frames. I'm currently using a Nitto Albatross bar on a 63cm frame with a 62cm. TT. It's the best bar I've ever used, and the most versatile, as I use mtb shifters and bar-end time trial brake levers, so I have 30cm of usable bar space for each hand. Better than any drop bar I used, including what I thought was a great Nitto Dirt Drop bar. If I would have had a short TT frame, I would not have been able to use such a bar, as I would have been too upright and my knees too prone to knock the bar ends. So, yes, get the longest TT you can find, as you never know what bar you may want in the future. With an Albatross bar, it helps to have a longer TT and/or a slightly longer stem. A long TT frame gives you a lot of latitude there.

With seat tube sizing, read carefully how it is measured. Everyone has their own way of measuring it.

Are all IGH weather proof? I don't know, I assume you've checked? If so it sounds good for your purposes.

-good luck!
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Old 06-14-09, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Jtgyk
My Nashbar touring frame build turned out to be a pretty sweet ride.

Of course I spent nearly as much building it up as I could have gotten the nice Randonnee I nearly bought on sale at REI. <facepalm>
Got a nice hard surface to really bounce your head on? Went to a Scratch and Dent sale yesterday and watched guy roll a lightly used Randonnee out the door for $300 (wasn't my size). I didn't get a chance to read the tag but there was no obvious issues. Watched a Disc brake C-Dale MTB go out the door for $350 (was my size but I was beat to it). Another sale at another store today. If I had the cash I should be down there scoring one of those bikes and reselling it on CL.
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Old 06-14-09, 09:27 AM
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I think it all depends on what you want from a bike, how much money you have and what parts you already have.

If:
i. you have little to no money, don't mind 26" wheels, buy an older mtb from craigslist, put slicks on, buy some racks/panniers and trekking bars and you're good to go (caveat here is that depending on your weight, you might have to make sure your load is spread front and back or invest in a 36h rear wheel with hub)

ii. if you really want a 700c wheelset, have little to no money, then bide your time on craigslist for a bargain 700c tourer (course, it might take you months or years to get that one perfect bike).

iii. if you really want a 700c wheelset, have quite a few parts and necessary tools lying around and have little to no money but expertise in building a bike, go for the Nashbar frame!

iv. if you have loads of money.... do what you want -go wild and buy a custom tourer!

I'm sure I missed some permutations there... but you should get the idea. Building up a bike is rarely cheap unless you have the know how, tools and most of the parts in your parts drawer. It does provide you with satisfaction, but it'll usually leave you with an empty wallet! (even if the frame is $5). Buying a complete bike at a good price from craigslist is usually the most cost effective way to go, particularly in the case of using an older mtb, putting slicks on and retaining the drivechain. To get a purpose built tourer off craigslist usually will take time and patience -ebay is a better bet, but then you most likely will have to incur the not insubstantial shipping costs.
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Old 06-14-09, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Spasticteapot
The derailleur system has a wider gear range, smaller spacing between the gears, supports a wide range of convenient shifters, and is far more efficient than an IGH....but the latter is cheaper, is almost completely immune to rain and salt, and is far cheaper and simpler to maintain.
For the sake of comparison I've owned lots of derailleur equipped bikes. I currently own 3 derailleur bikes and 3 bikes with Shimano IGHs and 2 Rohloff bikes.

Efficiency

IGHs and derailleurs at the Nexus8/Alfine/Rohloff/LX/XT/105 end of the quality spectrum do not exhibit differences in efficiency that are dramatically different. This is not to say they are identical, but the differences are in the few % range. If you use your bike in all weather conditions and for long periods of time my experience is the performance differential disappears and can even switch in favour of the IGH as things get dirty.

Gear Range/Spacing


It's a simple thing to swap out cassettes on a derailleur bike to change your gears significantly. Although I know of no one personally who actually does this in practice. Just about everyone I know is interested in a wide range cassette and not as fussed about having tight gear spacing. So once they get their bikes setup with an 11-32/34 cassette they don't change it for different rides.

IGHs have fixed gear ranges and spacing [except the CVT IGHs]. So you like it or you don't.

Rohloff - wide gear range equivalent to a MTB 3 x 9 drivetrain with equal spacing between gears.

Shimano IGHs - less gear range than a MTB 3 x 9 drivetrain, but you can use a double front chainring to get a wide range solution. For city use I find the Shimano IGHs work well with just 8 gears. I am experimenting with a Bike Friday touring bike to see if I can get by with just 8 gears touring in the mtns. I do have the option of using a double chainring on that bike with friction shifting to get a wide gear range, but I'd like to just have the IGH and keep the bike as simple as possible.

Cost

Is difficult to assess because it requires a long term life cycle analysis to really capture the benefit of the high quality IGHs. As an example I can get derailleur parts quite cheaply, but I need to maintain/replace them in challenging environments frequently. OTOH - I'll still be running the same Rohloff hub in 20 years with minimal maintenance.

If you value the lowest upfront cost than it's very hard to beat a derailleur drivetrain. They are so ubiquitous you can almost get the parts for next to nothing if you are not fussy about it. Even the higher quality components can be had on sale if you are patient.

If you value your time more highly and want a simple drivetrain that isn't going to need much thought/attention an IGH is very attractive.

If you have a long term view of things and plan to ride your bike a lot a Rohloff hub can cost less/km than a derailleur drivetrain. You can even realistically expect to pass the hub onto your kids for them to use. However, the upfront cost is high.

Maintenance

I did a dirt road tour up north that started dry and ended up being a multi-day mudfest. At the start I was meeting riders on derailleur bikes that had shifting issues simply because the dry dirt road was very dusty. My Rohloff bike shifter fine and needed no attention. The following days of mud riding were not super fun so I would just jump off my bike at days end and crawl into my tent. I did no maintenance to the bike. My Rohloff bike shifted and pedaled as well the last day as it did the first day when the bike was clean. My entire maintenance on that hub in the year I've owned it was one 10 min oil change.

Ultimately the fact is both derailleurs and IGHs work very well. They are different and have pros and cons. I would suggest that investing in a Rohloff or even a Shimano IGH makes sense for everyone. On the other hand the attitude that IGHs are inefficient/heavy/etc... isn't a very realistic assessment of these components.
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Old 06-14-09, 10:30 AM
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If you're on a tight budget, I don't think building a bike up from a frame is the cheapest way to go, unless you already have all the components. I built up an LHT from a frame and spent probably 50% more than I would have if the complete had been available at that time. Of course, when I built it I was trying to get a solid, high-quality bike that would last for a decade or two, so I didn't scrimp on quality. Much of what I bought was purchased new. If you're willing to buy used on Ebay you can save quite a bit.

If I was contemplating buying a touring bike with a limited budget I'd look for something used, or buy a Randonee new during the 20% off sale. If I really wanted to spend the least possible I'd buy a rigid mountain bike from the 80's, like a Rockhopper.

Of course, if you already have a bike's worth of parts and are just looking for a frame to put them on, the Nashbar would be hard to beat.
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Old 06-14-09, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by BigBlueToe
Of course, if you already have a bike's worth of parts and are just looking for a frame to put them on, the Nashbar would be hard to beat.
I have 1337 ebay-fu.

Parts I already have include:

Shimano 105 triple crankset ($25, may need new middle chainring at some point)
Shimano Tiagra FD (free extra part with Craigslist bike)
Cane Creek headset (came with eBay Kinesis CF fork that only cost me $35 shipped!)
Nashbar CF fork for disc brake($125 with locking plug thingy - I figured it was worth the extra $65 over the steel version)
Avid BB7 disc brake ($50)
Nashbar brake levers ($15)
Old-school aluminum handlebars (free from neighbor)
Continental Gatorskin 23mm tires (which I may or may not be able to use)
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