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  1. #1
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    Need another frame or a new bike

    After getting run over (bruised nothing broken), my beloved Specialized Sequoia, early 90's vintage, racks & lights etc. is no more. Frames bent 1/2 inch out. Now I'm looking for a replacement for the frame or bike. Any ideas or suggestions?

  2. #2
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    Surly Long Haul Trucker......

    ok so I'm biased
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  3. #3
    Deluxe Member mattm3's Avatar
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    Not to get too off topic here, but speaking of needing a frame... Did everyone see the LHT frame damaged here Pictures of your loaded rigs?

    Maybe you might want to think twice about replacing yours with an LHT frame.
    M3
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  4. #4
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    if you're handy with a spanner, I would start looking used. Im assuming many of your parts will be fine, and that you can swap over for a lot less than new

  5. #5
    Senior Member Oscuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattm3 View Post
    Not to get too off topic here, but speaking of needing a frame... Did everyone see the LHT frame damaged here Pictures of your loaded rigs?

    Maybe you might want to think twice about replacing yours with an LHT frame.
    To be somewhat fair, I was blasting down a steep hill and plowed damned near straight into a rather solid boulder. I'm pretty sure I was somewhere around 40-50kph at the time.

    But I am starting to think as well that the Surly frame might not be the best choice, when it fails completely before the Fork, or front wheel. Maybe I should ask Surly about this?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattm3 View Post
    Not to get too off topic here, but speaking of needing a frame... Did everyone see the LHT frame damaged here Pictures of your loaded rigs?

    Maybe you might want to think twice about replacing yours with an LHT frame.
    Huh??? This is Oscuro's description of what happened (emphasis mine):

    I was almost at Sooke when there's a steep, very steep but short down hill that leads to a sharp corner to go back up hill. I had forgotton how sharp the corner was, and wanted to maintain momentum...until I could see the corner half way down. Hard braking with slicks on gravel = useless skidding.

    So I puckered my posterior and tried to make it. Hit the boulder that stopped me from flying into the trees. Walked away with cuts, scrapes, and minor rash on my shoulder....and a dead bike, and I killed my Nikon D70 while I was at it for good measure.
    Are you suggesting that a better (?) frame would have survived the crash undamaged? I doubt I could lift a bike made of tubing strong enough not to bend when hitting a boulder head-on at speed.

    The LHT may or may not be a well-built frame -- I don't know; I don't own one. But this is hardly an example of an unacceptable failure mode.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by xyzzy834 View Post
    Huh??? This is Oscuro's description of what happened (emphasis mine):



    Are you suggesting that a better (?) frame would have survived the crash undamaged? I doubt I could lift a bike made of tubing strong enough not to bend when hitting a boulder head-on at speed.

    The LHT may or may not be a well-built frame -- I don't know; I don't own one. But this is hardly an example of an unacceptable failure mode.

    These are the same people who, having never even seen a Rohloff, let alone used one, will claim that they are proven unreliable, because out of 100,000+ units, a few had flange failures after god knows what abuse on loaded bikes in the Himalaya....

  8. #8
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    Here is the key phrase....."slicks on gravel = useless skidding".

    No matter what bike he was on, the outcome would have been the same and really has nothing to do with being a LHT.
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  9. #9
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    Frames are stronget at the intersection of the tubes and weaker in the middle of the tubes. It makes perfect sence that the frame would fail the way it has. Would you rather a weld broke or the fork broke? Given the circumstances of this crash, I'd say the frame performed as designed. The head tube pushed the force from the wheel into the main triangle of the frame and stayed intact in the process. What more can you ask from hitting an immovable object?
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  10. #10
    It's true, man.
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    I think of it as a 'crumple zone'.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Oscuro's Avatar
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    I should go back there soon and take a shot of what I hit, and the space around it.

    In all honesty, the crash was entirely my fault: I should have descended slowly in the first place, since I -thought- it wasn't that bad of a turn at the bottom of the hill. Instead, carelessness and ignorance led me to blast down it until I realized the folly of my error.

    I'm lucky as all hell to have lived, let alone walked away with barely minor rash and scrapes.

    Whether or not the frame's destruction helped save me for severe injury, is anyone's guess, since I don't have any high speed video to decide exactly what happened. All I have is my memory of "Oh shiiii--!" and a nice calm view of the ground while I did my best (but still craptacular) impression of a bird landing.

    And seeing as how I know nothing of frame, fork, or wheel design, I have no right to comment, or even try to consider the differences between:
    Wheel collapse
    Fork Collapse
    or Frame Collapse

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oscuro View Post
    I should go back there soon and take a shot of what I hit, and the space around it.
    please do, I am interested....

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscuro View Post
    Whether or not the frame's destruction helped save me for severe injury, is anyone's guess...
    Lets put it this way: something had to break, better the bike than your femurs and spine.

  13. #13
    Deluxe Member mattm3's Avatar
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    I'm sure the impact was something else but to have the frame bend in that fashion while the wheel only breaks a spoke and the fork is fine? Maybe that says something good about the wheels on the LHT. I've been in less severe crashes and done a lot more damage to wheels.

    Now that I've hijacked this thread, my work is done here.
    M3
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  14. #14
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Nault View Post
    Surly Long Haul Trucker......

    ok so I'm biased
    If you don't want to drink the LHT Kool-aid, look at a Cannondale T2. Yea. I know, I know...it's not steel but it's still a damn fine touring bike. And it's not another LHT...booring
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  15. #15
    Ceci n'est pas un vélo. mtclifford's Avatar
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    If you want a solid, cheap, and reliable frame, sure a LHT is great. But honestly they seem to have become the Mcdonald's of touring bikes. Hugely popular, you know what you are getting, but everyone has one.

    If you are looking on the lower end price wise, check out other brands too like Jamis, Bianchi, Fuji, or Salsa. They all make solid lower end bike for touring.
    Last edited by mtclifford; 08-05-09 at 09:14 AM.

  16. #16
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peddleBob View Post
    After getting run over (bruised nothing broken), my beloved Specialized Sequoia, early 90's vintage, racks & lights etc. is no more. Frames bent 1/2 inch out. Now I'm looking for a replacement for the frame or bike. Any ideas or suggestions?
    Are you moving parts over? Or is everything kaput?

    There are a lot of choices out there. In large, I don't think that the differences are that meaningful. But if nothing is salvageable, getting a complete bike is typically the better deal.

  17. #17
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    CYCCO
    You're correct in saying that the LHT is very popular but it really isn't about the bike. When I bought mine, the last thing I was concerned about is the brand. I think that is the appeal of the bike is the lack of "Branding" and Nascar looking decals AND you can do anything with it. If you look on the internet you'll see 1000 pictures of 1000 different looking LHT's. I know that mine is the only one like it and most people remove all of the decals (at least a good number of them do) so that all you have left is just a bike and not "Canondale" or "Jamis" or "Rivendell" etc. and that is what is cool about the bike, it's a blank canvas to build what you want any way you want. No one ever said it was high tech or the latest trend or the next big thing in bikes and the idea of no hype appeals to me. Go look at any advertisement for the bikes you listed above and they will most likely have a TDF rider or some version of a hammer head in order to appeal to the people who need to own the latest technology. F#*% that. Either you get it or you don't. And it's ok if you don't, because I don't care about that either.
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  18. #18
    Ceci n'est pas un vélo. mtclifford's Avatar
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    I honestly think the biggest appeal of the LHT is it is cheap, as far as touring frames go it is one of the least expensive new frames out there. It is also noted it is probably the most reliable and solid of the cheaper frames out there. I really don't see how you can equate a Jamis or a Rivendell to "Nascar branding" branding both those brands look pretty subtle in my opinion.

    Note I am not equating cheap with low quality, just cheap as far as price goes. But I don't see many people out there who would take a LHT over say a custom Bruce Gordon for the same price.
    Last edited by mtclifford; 08-05-09 at 12:18 PM.

  19. #19
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    But if you think about it, Is the BG really a stronger bike? or is it the fact that Bruce built it? I'd be willing to bet that if you put both frames on a machine and pulled and pushed and shook or what ever they do and you boiled it down to just numbers that the bikes would be very close either way.
    It's hard to compare a custom frame (and I own one of those too) because what your paying for is either a custom fit or an heirloom. But Bruce Gordon doesn't make a stronger weld than any other highly qualified welder or welding machine (whatever the case may be) He may file a little nicer and paint a little nicer but in the end your paying for the name recognition. Do you really think his frames made in Taiwan are any stronger than a LHT made in Taiwan? I think not. What makes the price different is the name on it.
    Don't read too much into my Nascar statement, all I'm saying is some are less dependent on the cosmetic.
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  20. #20
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Nault View Post
    CYCCO
    You're correct in saying that the LHT is very popular but it really isn't about the bike. When I bought mine, the last thing I was concerned about is the brand. I think that is the appeal of the bike is the lack of "Branding" and Nascar looking decals AND you can do anything with it. If you look on the internet you'll see 1000 pictures of 1000 different looking LHT's. I know that mine is the only one like it and most people remove all of the decals (at least a good number of them do) so that all you have left is just a bike and not "Canondale" or "Jamis" or "Rivendell" etc. and that is what is cool about the bike, it's a blank canvas to build what you want any way you want. No one ever said it was high tech or the latest trend or the next big thing in bikes and the idea of no hype appeals to me. Go look at any advertisement for the bikes you listed above and they will most likely have a TDF rider or some version of a hammer head in order to appeal to the people who need to own the latest technology. F#*% that. Either you get it or you don't. And it's ok if you don't, because I don't care about that either.
    The only bike I listed above was the Cannondale T2. It's pretty understated as are most touring bikes. The last 'flashy' touring bike they made was a red one...oh the horrors...in the early 90s. And you are likely not to find a "TDF rider or some version of a hammer head" on any touring bike...no matter what the brand. You are likely not to find any kind of advertising for them at all. In fact, Surly has the most radical touring bike ad I've seen anywhere.



    I don't know many people who would wear a full face helmet while touring Nor do I know of many people who would play air guitar on their touring bikes.

    Personally, I bought a Cannondale because I've lusted after one since I saw my first one back in the late 80's. They are a good bike built by a good company with one of the longest pedigrees of just about any touring bike. Yes, Cannondale builds race bikes and mountain bikes. Most all production companies do that. Few, if any, bicycle companies can state that they started with touring bikes. Cannondale did.
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  21. #21
    Ceci n'est pas un vélo. mtclifford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Nault View Post
    But if you think about it, Is the BG really a stronger bike? or is it the fact that Bruce built it? I'd be willing to bet that if you put both frames on a machine and pulled and pushed and shook or what ever they do and you boiled it down to just numbers that the bikes would be very close either way.
    It's hard to compare a custom frame (and I own one of those too) because what your paying for is either a custom fit or an heirloom. But Bruce Gordon doesn't make a stronger weld than any other highly qualified welder or welding machine (whatever the case may be) He may file a little nicer and paint a little nicer but in the end your paying for the name recognition. Do you really think his frames made in Taiwan are any stronger than a LHT made in Taiwan? I think not. What makes the price different is the name on it.
    Don't read too much into my Nascar statement, all I'm saying is some are less dependent on the cosmetic.
    I never said it was. But I am not making the same claims you are. Take my car for example.....its is a piece of crap 98 Taurus. It runs fine, gets me from point A to point B and does what it needs to do, and it was cheap. You don't see me saying, that people who own more expensive cars, "just don't get it" and my car is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Some people just want a little more out of their car. It is the same when comparing a BG, or other customs to a LHT. Some people just want something a little different.

    The LHT is utilitarian, which is exactly what the LHT is built and sold to be. It is quite possibly the best bike in its price range, but the fact is the price range is still on the bottom range, and is the surly a better bike than others in its price range? Sounds like personal preference to me, but accusing people who make other choices of "just not getting it" doesn't seem like a very good argument to me. It is like me ripping into someone because I like my eggs scrambled and they like theirs poached.
    Last edited by mtclifford; 08-05-09 at 03:07 PM.

  22. #22
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    My point is not to defend Surly's advertising, and everyone has an oppinion. If you like Cdale bikes thats great, but no one accuses you of drinking the kool aid as if people can't use sound reasoning in choozing what they ride. Some lust, others do homework. It's ok
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  23. #23
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Nault View Post
    My point is not to defend Surly's advertising, and everyone has an opinion. If you like Cdale bikes that's great, but no one accuses you of drinking the kool aid as if people can't use sound reasoning in choosing what they ride. Some lust, others do homework. It's ok
    First, the kool-aid crack is, in the words of Foghorn Leghorn, "...a joke, son, a flag-waver! You're built too low. The fast ones go over your head. Ya got a hole in your glove. I keep pitchin' 'em and you keep missin' 'em! Ya gotta keep your eye on the ball! Eye. Ball. Eyeball! I almost had a gag, son--a joke, that is!" Don't take it personally The LHT is a fine bike, as I alluded to. However, the Cannondale is just as good and, in some respects, better. The LHT is just the bike that everyone suggests here...there's even a Google LHT group now

    You brought up the advertising on Cannondales, Jamis and Rivendell. None of them have outrageous advertising on their touring bikes. Surly does.

    Finally, some people lust and do their homework. I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to find out why the Cannondales are just as good and, in some respects, better. Hint: It as nothing to do with graphics
    Stuart Black
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  24. #24
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    invisiblehand - ya, its pretty much Kaput. Wheels tacoed, both cranks bent in, rear derailer smashed in, etc. I'm just a couple of LBS shy of being a Clydesdale, so me landing on it didn't do it any favors.

    Right now I'm looking at the LHT in a 54cm, w 26" wheels. I've done 2 test rides with on at my LBS comparing it to a Salsa Fargo and by itself. The Fargo was fun and the LHT was magical the first time and made me want to go for the second, and I like to GO is more fun for me than curb jumping, but I live in a city. Anyway the Fargo's out of the running.

    As I'm looking for a Do all Bike, commute, utility, long distance (century possible double-C), & touring. The LHT will be Heavy (slower) for LD and spot on for the rest, but I still have an issue with 26" wheels. I've also read a bit on the Trek 520 on line. Seems to have about the same geomitry, comes with 700C wheels in the 54cm frame (I don't have to buy new tires.) and weighs about the same #lbs.

    How about a current comparison of the LHT and Trek 520?

  25. #25
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    Looking at the pictures of Oscuros LHT I noticed that the welds are all intact. I think any frame would have suffered the same fate. Bike vs boulder? Boulder will win every time.

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