stevage

I'm trying to pack super light, and wondering if a tent fly by itself works as a bivy? I've never tried camping with just a tarp though. The tent is a 1.8kg 1.5 man tubular style tent: two flexible poles of different lengths that don't cross. Oh, here's a photo of it.

Thoughts? Also, how do you stop water running along the ground from getting you wet? Dig a trench?

arctos

Unless you travel and camp where there are no bugs you will want more than a rain fly for bike touring and other camping. There are lots of choices that are much lighter than your 1.8kg one.

Look at the tarptents from Henry Shires in the US. The Sublite and the Contrail weigh around half a kilo and provide excellent rain and bug protection. They also pack up small.https://www.tarptent.com

A waterproof fly wrapped around you as a bivy will soak you and your bag in sweat destroying most insulation value. A breathable bivy sack will often weigh as much as the tarptents and provide little useable room. There are other light shelters too. https://www.mld.com

Thasiet

you try to use a fly as a bivy and you are going to be wet from your own perspiration. tarps are a great lightweight option. Trim your groundsheet so it is smaller than the floorprint of the tarp and water won't run down it. if the ground is saturated so that water is running along the ground you should probably be somewhere else.

AsanaCycles

pick high ground
dig a trench
tour in good weather

yes, a fly works well.

AsanaCycles

this is a Kifaru ParaTarp
and i use a Woobie, no sleeping bag.
Patagonia Capeline baselayer
1 set of cycling clothing
1 set of camp wear
crocs!
bungeed to a compression bag, they serve dual duty acting as saddle bags.
stuff things into your crocs.

Bekologist

I used a silnylon tarp and a golite bug Nest1 on my last tour and found this the best combination of lightweight, bug security, ventilation, packed size and spaciousness for gear/bike parking I've ever packed.

I've used tarps and tarptents in 4 seasons and for over 20 years and always go back to tarps for lightweight, airy shelters. the addition of a suspendable, sit-up-able bugnest under a 10x12 siltarp was a revelation and one I've been envisioning for a couple of years now.

mos' excellent!

stevage

Wow, I love the range of opinions so far Looks like I might have also been unclear in my use of "bivy" - I meant a tarp suspended over a sleeping bag, like in AsanaCycles' pics. Not tightly wrapped - I see the sweat problem there.

Not sure about bugs...there are definitely insects around, but it's hard to picture how much of a problem they'll be in the middle of the night. Not much in the way of stinging/venemous ones, anyway.

More comments?

AsanaCycles

well... bugs hate fire

Bekologist

doesn't australia have a few stinging nasties and some poisonous snakes? ive camped with just a bug net or no net whatsoever on off season under a tarp for decades. its not a biggie except if there are scorpions or artic mosquito/black fly conditions....

even with a fire, the arctic is no place to camp without serious bugproofing.

i have rarely trenched, just pitch on high ground with slope. hard to do some places and in downpours a tarp is a bit of an exercise in 'the sinking ship' phenomenon. i will usually just elevate the groundcloth on some sticks and rocks, and have trenched but not as a matter of course, just in torrential floods.

part of the adventure.

stevage

>doesn't australia have a few stinging nasties and some poisonous snakes?

Sure. Two lethal spiders (sydney funnelweb and redback [aka black widow]), probably lots of painful but not lethal ones, scorpions etc. But I'm in the southeast and wouldn't expect them to come across me in the middle of the night. Definitely lots of poisonous snakes, but again, they're not active at night.

If you set up a bivy on a slope, doesn't that help the water run towards you? What am I missing?

Bekologist

...generally just avoid the low spots, camp on sloping ground around if there's rain in the forecast, trust me. think 'high spot', not 'hollow'.

Machka 

And fire is NOT something that you want to be lighting while camping in Australia ... particularly in Victoria.

As for bugs ... nevermind the really nasty ones ... mossies are the worst in the middle of the night, and the mossies are starting to come out now.

Dave Nault

The only thing about a tarp is that it does nothing to get you out of mosquitos. I've been in situations where they just swarm on you and unless you can get into something, you risk loosing your sanity. High ground and all is good advice but not always available. I rode in northern Wisconsin, and in places your choice is either the road side or the woods and if they swarm you on the road, they will eat you alive in the woods. If you know you won't have this problem beforehand then I'd say go for it but, if your unsure, I'd carry at least a bivy.

Bekologist

I'm talking about a bug net under a siltarp.

and camping on high ground to keep rainfall from pooling where you are camping.

Bacciagalupe

If you can afford it (and assuming they sell it where you are), I'd look into the Big Agnes SL tents, either the 1- or 2-person sizes. Very light, two layers (better for handling condensation etc), better bug protection. The SL2 only weighs 3 lbs 6 oz.

FYI the term "bivy" has a fairly specific use, in that it's a very small enclosure -- typically just a thin bag that wraps around a sleeping bag. Some tents (including the aforementioned Big Agnes tents) can be set up in "fast fly" mode, which is the rain fly + footprint.

mtclifford

You can also set up the BA seedhouse in an ultralight configuration with just the footprint, poles, and fly. Personally I hate creepy crawlys so I have never done it this way.

Enthusiast

I like a light and simple setup but don't have much money so I use an altered polytarp for my rain protection, a section of plastic packing film for a ground cloth, and a bedsheet as a combo summer bivy/sleepingbag liner and bug protection. Pull the sheet over your head and breath goes out and bugs don't come in. The bedsheet is large enough that I can type up my journal underneath. It all cost me around $10 total.
Other uses for the bedsheet:
Keeps sleeping quilt clean/dry
First Aid
Toga parties
Picnic or beach blanket
Halloween costume - Ghost or Super-Bicyclist are my favorites
The floral pattern on the bedsheet even serves as camouflage!

stevage

>If you can afford it (and assuming they sell it where you are), I'd look into the Big Agnes SL tents, either the 1- or 2-person sizes. Very light, two layers (better for handling condensation etc), better bug protection. The SL2 only weighs 3 lbs 6 oz.

That's almost as much as my current tent! Well, 1.53kg vs 1.8kg. Maybe this would be worthwhile - at least that's a saving of 700g.

I won't be lighting any fires, but it'd probably be safe - I'm going through all the areas that were burnt out in February. But I think with the talk of mossies, you might just have talked me out of getting too creative with sleeping arrangements...

Will have to consider Enthusiast's idea...I do have a mosquito net, maybe I could trim it down to just cover my head with a bit of space.

Machka 

We live in the areas that were burnt out in February. Rowan lost his home and narrowly escaped with his life in that fire. But they are talking about the possibility of a bigger, much worse fire in this area this coming summer. Not all the fuel was burnt. The fire was really bad in places and burnt everything completely black there still, but just a few metres away might be a spot the fire missed. For example, somehow the fire missed the cabin we're currently living in. It's burnt all around us, but this is a little oasis of green, right now. The fire got a large portion of the creek/dam area in front of our place, but not all of it. It still contains a lot that could be burnt. And the pastures, which were burnt black, have new grass which is green now, but will turn dry and brown soon.

I've got picks in the Love Shack (New Place) set in my sig line, and a couple other sets on Flickr.


The flies are going nuts here right now, but that dam is going to create a massive amount of mossies soon. Funny ... so much is burnt and gone ... but the bugs live on!!

Bekologist

if you've got a mosquito headnet or a large swath of netting you can make into a simple canopy to hang underneath your tarp of choice, you'll be set.

Machka 

The other thing to consider are the ants. I've never seen so many varieties of ants before I got here ... and I'm told they all bite, but certain ones hurt worse than others.

stevage

>We live in the areas that were burnt out in February. Rowan lost his home and narrowly escaped with his life in that fire.

Wow, I see. From your flickr photo looks like you're around Buxton or so? I'm planning to go from Hurstbridge to Marysville then either up to Murrindindi and back to Melbourne, or down to Warburton and return via rail trail.

Machka 

Yes, sort of in the area of Buxton. Marysville was pretty much completely destroyed (you probably know that) and just doesn't look the same. It is greening up in places, but so many of the buildings are gone. We cycled from Buxton to the edge of Marysville the other day, but didn't go further.

Are you thinking of doing the Maroondah Highway from Healsville to Marysville? Over the Black Spur? If so, I'm not sure I'd recommend that. That highway is scary ... narrow, windy, no shoulder, and a lot of traffic including a lot of logging trucks.

I've seen the Warburton trail and Rowan and I have mentioned several times that we should try it.



These are some of the before and after shots of Rowan's place ... pre-February 7th, and post-February 7th:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/1430288...7611337191865/

benajah

People spent the majority of human evolution living under the equivalent of strung up tarps. they actually work well, with one exception..keeping out bugs and other creepy things. In North America, in the winter they are fantastic. In the summer, not so much just for the bugs and bears, but as far as stormproofness, they work pretty well. And yes, trench around the perimeter and use a good air mattress like a Thermarest.