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Old 02-03-10, 06:29 PM   #1
Ding Ding
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lookin for the strongest 700C wheelset

all info would be great but really want to hear about the horror stories of bashing your rims and how they they they held up. Cant decided between volocity or Mavic. also has anyone ever seen 48 hole Mavic A719 complete?
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Old 02-03-10, 06:40 PM   #2
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48 spoke is crazy talk... Unless I suppose you weigh 350 and your hauling another 100.. I'd be more worried about the frame snapping in two in that case.

Velocity Dyads or the A719 in 36 drilling with quality hubs and spokes... Should do the trick.
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Old 02-03-10, 06:51 PM   #3
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The Dyads and A719s are always recommended, have a set of Dyads myself, but was wondering if anyone has used DT Swiss TK540s and if so what they thought of them.
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Old 02-03-10, 07:27 PM   #4
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36h A719 laced to a Phil Touring Cassette hub
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Old 02-03-10, 09:56 PM   #5
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So here is my take...I'm a fat man (300#). When I've toured (across Minnesota twice) I carried about 50# besides me. Before I got 48 spoke XT hubs with Sun Rhyno 700cc rims, I had a 40 spoke 1980 vintage 27" wheel on Schwinn Voyageur and several 36 hole ATB wheels that gave me fits: broken spokes, wobble, broken hub flanges, cracked rims...More issues than I was willing to put up with to save a few ounces of rotational weight. Since getting my current set-up, I have a zip, zilch, nada wheel trouble...none. I have been accused of of having welding rod for spokes They are four crossed 14 gauge on the rear and three cross on the front. It's not light, but it sure is worth it.

Unfortunately, the Sun Rhynos are no longer available...

Jon Paschka
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Old 02-03-10, 10:06 PM   #6
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In 2007 I cycled across the country using Mavic A520's: front 40 hole laced to Phil Wood hub with 14/15 DT; rear 48 hole laced to Phil Wood 7spd freewheel hub with 14/15 DT spokes. This set was completely reliable. They are still as true as when new. My riding companion's 36 hole rear wheel disintegrated and had to be replaced half-way through the tour.

Last edited by sisddwg; 02-03-10 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 02-03-10, 11:06 PM   #7
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After 21 years of 48 spoke wheels on our tandem, I still have not had one spoke break nor the wheels trued. Contrary to others, I believe if you want a totally bulletproof wheel, got 48 spokes with db spokes. I have broken several of my 36h spokes over the years. On my commuter bike, it is a 36h with aeroheat (26" dyads) rims. I regularly hit curbs with the rear wheel and they have held up nicely but do need occasionally truing.

If I were building a new bulletproof set for touring, I would go with dyads rims, laced with 13g db spokes and Phil Wood 48h hubs. But that would cost close to $1000 probably.
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Old 02-04-10, 06:50 AM   #8
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I just had some Velocity Dyads built with 36 H Ultegra rims. Hopefully that will be bullet-proof enough for me.
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Old 02-04-10, 06:59 AM   #9
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I just had some Velocity Dyads built with 36 H Ultegra rims. Hopefully that will be bullet-proof enough for me.

They will be. A well built wheel is a well built wheel. I'm not sure how many bullets you will run into... Potholes are more likely.
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Old 02-04-10, 07:41 AM   #10
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36h A719 laced to a Phil Touring Cassette hub
Both are good choices but you are, like most people, missing the most important bits for a strong wheel...the spokes. For a truly great touring wheel, put DT Alpine IIIs between the rim and hub. With those, it hardly matters what you put at either end of the spokes.
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Old 02-04-10, 09:29 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Ding Ding View Post
all info would be great but really want to hear about the horror stories of bashing your rims and how they they they held up. Cant decided between volocity or Mavic. also has anyone ever seen 48 hole Mavic A719 complete?
What makes you need extreme strength? Have you had problems with the sorts of wheels suggested in this thread?
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Old 02-04-10, 09:43 AM   #12
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I don't have very many miles on them, but Rich Lesnek at Rivendell and Hands on Wheels, built a set of wheels for me (installed on a Sam Hillbourne) with DT Swiss (I do not know the model) spokes, 36 hole Phil Wood hubs and Mavic A719 rims. I asked for "bomb proof." They cost about $600 with the bike. I hate wheel problems.
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Old 02-04-10, 10:40 AM   #13
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My wheels are about 6 years old now and as true as the day I bought them.

Mavic T520 (predecessor to the A719) rim, 48-spokes laced in a 4-cross pattern, and Phil Wood hubs.

I've hit a few holes and bumps over the years that jarred my teeth. The wheels are fine. The weight difference between these in 36 and 48 spokes is the weight of 24 extra spokes. That's not much as a percentage of the total weight of my rig and it gives me enormous peace of mind.



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Old 02-04-10, 12:34 PM   #14
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I built 36 hole 105 hubs,DB spokes,A719 rims 2 years ago.Over 25,000 miles on them so far and haven't touched them.6000 of that has been touring miles.

That being said,I'm collecting the parts for Shimano 48 hole tandem hubs(respaced to 130),front and rear with DB spokes and A719 rims for my next set.
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Old 02-17-10, 06:50 PM   #15
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I just picked up a set of 36-front/40-rear Phil Woods laced to some Mavic Module 3CD's (?) with what look to be DT Swiss (DT?). I'm guessing these were touring wheels before I got my hands on them. I'm not huge, but have had more than a few broken spokes riding in the city. I didn't realize the spoke count until I got them home. Maybe these will solve my issues. I'm super stoked (spoked) to ride them.

I do have a question about the cassette. It has seven sprockets (7-speed?), but I need to run it at 9 or 10 speeds. Can I put a different cassette on these?
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Old 02-18-10, 04:29 AM   #16
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[QUOTE=kyakdiver;10358247]48 spoke is crazy talk... Unless I suppose you weigh 350 and your hauling another 100.. I'd be more worried about the frame snapping in two in that case.QUOTE]

Been there. In 2006 I rode thru the Australian outback and had 48 spoke, 26" wheels with PW hubs and Rhyno Lite rims. The wheels never failed even when I hit a patch of bull dust and the front wheel turned almost 90 degrees to my direction of travel. Then later, when the RD lost a pulley and went into the RW that rear wheel stayed true even with a broken spoke and ... The BB and RD and cables failed, but the wheels stood true. A quick weld job attached the BB into the frame, etc... However, there were never any failure problems with the 48 spoke wheels.

I was less than 100 kg at the time and was pulling a loaded Bob Ibex totally self-supported.

It was NOT crazy talk (just common sense) to get the strongest equipment I could for that outback trip :-)
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Old 02-18-10, 06:40 AM   #17
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[QUOTE=tmac100;10419097]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyakdiver View Post
48 spoke is crazy talk... Unless I suppose you weigh 350 and your hauling another 100.. I'd be more worried about the frame snapping in two in that case.QUOTE]

Been there. In 2006 I rode thru the Australian outback and had 48 spoke, 26" wheels with PW hubs and Rhyno Lite rims. The wheels never failed even when I hit a patch of bull dust and the front wheel turned almost 90 degrees to my direction of travel. Then later, when the RD lost a pulley and went into the RW that rear wheel stayed true even with a broken spoke and ... The BB and RD and cables failed, but the wheels stood true. A quick weld job attached the BB into the frame, etc... However, there were never any failure problems with the 48 spoke wheels.

I was less than 100 kg at the time and was pulling a loaded Bob Ibex totally self-supported.

It was NOT crazy talk (just common sense) to get the strongest equipment I could for that outback trip :-)
How would a 36 spoke wheel have been any different? One you crashed and one you had a RD that was poorly adjusted/bent/broken. Not saying 48 doesn't work... Just that it's overkill for most. A well built 36 spoke wheel would have done just fine. Run what ya want....

Take a look at the helmet thread I carry a spare spoke so having to ride with a broken one is temporary.
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Old 02-18-10, 07:05 AM   #18
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seems to me that one thing more spokes doesn't address is the vulnerability of the bead flange to bend in on very hard impacts. When the Dyads first came out I had them on a mtn. bike and whacked the rear wheel on a sharp drop at high speed. After fixing the flat I noticed the slight wobble was accompnied by a blip in the flange. I've ridden that wheel on another bike for ten more years, not loaded often, and after retruing have lived with the extra bump while braking. If I was going for more bombproof than Dyads I'd go to a heavier rim with thicker braking surface/flange before going to more spokes.

It would be interesting to see A/B testing of inexpensive rims like the Alex Adventurer which weighs 620 grams and a Velocity Dyad that weighs 480grams.

Last edited by LeeG; 02-18-10 at 07:18 AM.
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