fietsbob

Looking at Sheldon's IG calculator 8 speed is geared as low .53 .. as the 11,
which adds 2 high ratios 1.89 and 2.15
5th is still the 1:1, and the other added ratio
is a shuffling in a 1.13 and changing a fraction on a few others ..
So If you wanted a dual range , with 2 chainrings , the 8 speed would work fine.

say a 18 with 36 and a 44 on the crank
I input a 26" wheel .. range is reasonable

mcewenr

https://sheldonbrown.com/harris/shimano-nexus.html This site says they have them for $659. I have a TerriTrike Path 8 with a Sturmy Archer 8 speed which is less than acceptable (the Sturmy Archer not the trike). It has too high a starting gear (1st gear is a 1 to 1) for an old guy like me and to shift you have to stop pedaling which kills any momentum on down shifts going up a hill. I am going to upgrade either to a Nuvinci N360 or the Alfine 11 speed. I like the wider gear range of the 11 speed but I also like the idea of the infinite gear ratio of the Nuvinci. My old legs need lower gears to go up the hills but even with these hubs if I get the lower gears I need I'm a little shy on the top end. I am thinking of also adding a Schlumpf front end. The Schlumph gives you two front gear ratios, 27 and 67.5, which gives you the low gears and some really high gears, more than I will use. I will getting my gear from Utah Trikes www.utahtrikes.com . They will build a Nuvinci 360 wheel (20", 26") for $595, and the Alfine 8 starting at $549 and a Rohloff starting at $1399. All these include the wheel, shifters etc. They do not have the Alfine 11 speed yet so don't know what the price may be. They only do trikes but I'm sure they would sell a hub and wheel for a two wheeler. When you get older and the body doesn't like the uncomfortable seat and positions of a bike, try a recumbant trike. comfortable and fun.

NormanF

Its expensive for a hub but the speeds are almost comparable to a Rohloff 14 speed for half the price.

And it IS Shimano!

matchy99

Shimano Alfine 8 is durable enough to set around the world cycling record:

https://bike.shimano.com/publish/cont...ine_takes.html

positron

Rohloff for OEM1 frame, with Disk brakes and external shifter mechanism

https://www.starbike.com/php/product_...ng=en&pid=5221

785.71 € (less 19% VAT)
equal to 1131.5 USD According to current ECB reference rate.

That is shipped, insured to the United states. Fedex will drop it off at your door, no taxes collected.
I have bought from starbike many times, it is where I purchased my own speedhub, and later SON dynohubs.

A deal if you ask me. Over the past two years, I have discovered that Rohloff is basically the perfect component.

I just wanted to correct some of this thread's pricing misinformation.

Rillette

Hello, I have been trying to find some comparison between the Shimano Alfine 11 hub and the Deore XT. I came across this post and think many of you could help me.
Here's some background on me:

I used to (I say used to because I stop a little while to have 2 kids) MTB in US, I have a Jamis hard tail with XT that I absolutely love. Nothing too hardcore, but I enjoyed the hills.

I just moved to Munich (from Baltimore) and this is the most bike friendly city I have ever seen. I have yet to find a street that doesn't have its dedicated bike lane, now that is cool! Anyway, I want to buy a good commuter bike, something that will last. We made the move to Munich as a permanent move. We are also considering adding a bike trailer for the 2 kids (10 mths and 3 years).

I have came across 2 bikes that I liked. The first one, Hercules Avanos Pro comes with Deore XT front & back (Euro 1300). The second one, Staiger Luxe 11.8 comes with Alfine 11 (Euro 1,400). I prefer the frame of the Hercules, which also comes with front suspension. But I have to admit I felt in love with the Alfine, for a lot of similar reasons listed on this blog.

The bike shop is willing to put the Alfine on the frame I like, for a little labor fee. The bike price would stay the same. Would that be a stupid thing to do? Is XT much more expensive than Alfine, and by doing that, I'll get screwed, or are they comparable price wise?

I absolutely love how the Alfine shifts, plus having 1 shifter is so much easier, simple, no overlap.

Let me know what you think. You can probably look the bikes up online, but all what I can find was in German.

Thanks again!

tmac100

This last comment reminds me of August 2006 when I was about 70 km south of Borroloola, NT, Australia (on The Savannah Way) and in the night the bottom toothed wheel on my Shimano derailler fell off (screw came out) and the derailler went into the rear wheel (48 spoke 4X with PW hubs and Sun Rhynolite rim and Schwalbe Marathon tire)... Good equipment, BUT ... I pushed the bike into the bush and set up my hammock and slept. It was the first night I ever heard a dingo howl...

Next morning I found some of the parts on the road, but the derailler was bent into the wheel... I hitch hiked all day, a Sunday, (700km) to Katherine, NT and had to wait until Tuesday to get outta the state-wide August long-week-end holiday. By 2 am Wednesday I had bicycled 107 km S to Mataranka and was headed east along the Roper River Road, and then went south on the dirt road to "Cape ..." past the "Lost Cities". A week later I was back to the road where I had the "incident". None the worse for wear...

Like mechanical engineers say" Everything mechanical WILL FAIL. We just don't know where nor when...

I rest my case... and

tmac100

......... somehow my post was duplicated .............

electrik

The wheel was ruined? If not you can remove the derailleur, cut the chain and made a single speed...

fietsbob

whole thing can be deleted in the Edit function, including the above statement.

Rillette

nobody has any comments / advice for me?

Rob_E

Your question is confusing to me and appears at the end of an only tangentially related thread that's several years old. You might want to start a new thread.

I have not used either hub, but if your main question whether or not it's a good deal to get a bike with an Alfine 11 for essentially the same price as the same bike with an XT hub, that sounds like a good deal to me.

A brief Google search shows me XT hubs for under $100 US, although you would also need a derailer, cassette, and shifter. I don't know what that whole set will set you back, but I would guess well under $200. The Alfine 11 is going to be around $500 US and will, I'm guessing, come with a shifter and maybe a rear cog. If someone is willing to swap out around $100-$200 dollars worth of parts in exchange for $500 worth of parts, and keep the price the same, that sounds like such a good deal that it really doesn't make sense for someone to offer you that, which is what confuses me.

Kabir424

I just wanted to update everyone that I emailed Jtek Engineering to see if they had plans for a bar-end shifter for the Shimano 11 speed hub. One of them e-mailed me back within a couple of hours and confirmed that they were prototyping a bar-end shifter for the 11 speed hub. He doesn't know when it will become available and it is always possible that it might not become available. He did say, "It has been a pain in the butt and we have gone through a couple of prototypes so I do not want to have a confirmed release date yet." I asked him if it was fine to post on bikeforums about it and he said it was fine.

Here is their website if you want to check out what their other bar-end shifters look like. Other than I would like to get their 11 speed bar end shifter for my future 11 speed hub I have no affiliation with this company.

https://jtekengineering.com/index.php

fietsbob

FWIW, I've been running the Rohloff Bike Friday thru the winter ,
and I could not imagine matching the sight unseen linear shifting sequence
rolling thru the grip-shifter, trying to run a 9by3 derailleur scheme
while riding in my Cycle Rain Cape.
as the gear display and the drivetrain itself
cannot be seen while I'm riding ..

bikermikeTO

I used an Alfine 11 on my tour last summer. It was fine until the gradient kicked up to about 9%. After a bit of climbing it would start skipping and grinding. I ended up having to climb in second or third gear all the time.
It did survive but I would not use it for touring again. I wish I had got a Rohloff or even an Alfine 8 instead.

mikhalit

That is totally wise thing to do, to swap derailleur for an IGH on the commuter. If you put something like 2000 km per year, than in 1 or 1.5 years it will be cheaper to own an Alfine hub for the price of derailleur system wearable parts (chains, cassettes) is more expensive and wear faster.

In general the Staiger looks to me as a more appropriate choice for your riding conditions, suspension fork will provide unnecessary weight but will add not so much in comfort. The rack seems better as well. Fit is the most important though, i'd go for the comfortable bike at first place, the rest is less important.

mikhalit

If you look for what Alfine group replaces you will find that XT group will cost about 350 euros. That is in online shops with pretty good deals. It is really the same price for Alfine 11. Surely not all pieces have to be XT, so one can cut it down to 200 or 250 euros, but it won't be 100% XT (which is really Ok for a good commuter bike though).

staehpj1

The Alfine may make sense and yes the derailleur setup will wear chains faster, but I think you estimate of the cost is way off. Breaking even at 3000 km is highly unlikely. I don't think I have ever needed to change a single part on my derailleur bikes in that distance. My touring bike with Deore and Tiagra parts finally got a new chain at 15,000 km and the shifters, cogs, and rings are still fine. I did also have to swap out the FD at about the same time. The chain was about $30 and the FD about $50. While that may be better than average I doubt that anyone needs to replace enough parts at 3000 km to make the Alfine cheaper.

Chris Pringle

THIS is exactly the feedback I've read on many websites. Call Shimano and they will even void the warranty on their Alfine IGH if you damage it (sooner than later you will!) and it had been used for any sort of loaded touring. They were simply not designed for that purpose - commuting (urban use) YES; MTBing, Touring NO. There are many people using Alfine for these purposes, but at their own risk. Rohloff is currently the way to go at a dearly price to pay since their manufacturing still takes place in Germany, although apparently there is an American Co. - NuVinci - that we should be watching for. Their current model (N360) still doesn't cut it gearing-wise for optimal touring but they're getting close. Their hubs also cost a lot less.

pacificcyclist

IGH system makes sense as a maintenance free option period. Most of the time normal derailleur systems wear out faster is due to poor shifting techniques and stock gearing that promote a lot of cross shifting. With IGH, you have to take what you get so no cross shifting is possible. If you take the time to run as straight as chain line you can with a derailleur system by customizing the rear cassette (which you can) and the front chain rings (which you can too), you can easily create a middle chain ring that can run through a 9 or 10 speed cassette without needing to cross.

Alphine 11 is basically a 24 speed normal derailleur system with the redundant gears removed, whereas the Rohloff 14 is a 27 speed normal geared system with redundant gears removed.
You can do the same with normal geared bikes like what I have and have chains and cassettes lasting a long long time.

mikhalit

2000 km is a bit too soon, thanks for remark and apologies for the confusion. Should not post on forum after the hard day.

My experience is that every 5000 kms i need to change a cassette and a couple of chains to keep the shifting smooth and preserve the chainrings. Every 10000 I needed to change one or two front rings. Haven't broken a derailleur yet. Perhaps it matters where you live, if winter salt and grind come into play than parts wear pretty quickly.

But i must say that a new chain after 15K sounds pretty incredible. So what chain have you been using and what's your setup?

I guess some parts just last longer than others. On the other hand the cost of Alfine parts is a joke, a thick chain costs about 8 euros and a cog is another 10. And they will outlast the modern Shimano 9 speed parts, i am quite certain about that.

mikhalit

What do you mean by poor shifting technique?

staehpj1

That was the OEM chain on the bike. I think it might have been a SRAM PC-971 9-speed chain. The setup was nothing special, just Tiagra/Deore level stuff. The miles were mostly loaded touring on paved roads. Care was mostly lubing with Boesheild T-9 and wiping off the chain. I try to use more aggressive cleaning as sparingly as possible. My theory is that it shortens chain life by allowing grit to penetrate deeper into the chain and by killing the lube there. When the chain is so gunked up that I absolutely have to do something I run water over it under no pressure if it is just mud. If it needs solvent I sometimes use WD 40 to give it a good rinse and then wipe down. I replace chains when 12 complete links measure 12-1/16". I find that as long as I don't let the chain get much longer than that the cogs and rings last a very long time. Most of my bikes never get new cogs or rings unless it is to change the ratios.

Oh and the derailleur change was due to a little ramp that the spring bears against breaking off. I have seen that on three different bikes belonging to me or my family.

staehpj1

I suspect that extreme cross-chaining is harder on the drive train than "heavy clunk" shifts.

pacificcyclist

It means that on a typical triple road chain ring bike (52/42/30) and a 9 speed 11-34, that a 52-34 has the equivalent gear inches as 42-26 (middle front ring). Which combo do you think is best? 42-26 because it has a better straighter chain line as opposed to the 52-34. On a triple, you sometimes need to perform 2 combo front and rear shifts to maintain a good chain line. On a double, you should use the big ring on the first 4 cogs of a cassette and then downshift to the smaller ring for the rest. How often people do this.

This problem is exacerbated by the overall length of the chainstays. Bikes with longer chainstays will be more tolerant to cross shifting (touring bikes with a 45cm chainstay) as opposed to folding bikes, race and cross bike or triathlon bike (the shortest). The shorter the chain stay, the more vigilant you have to become to not cross shift. One my folding bikes before the custom gearing; I cross so much that I wore out the PC 971 9 speed chain and SRAM 970 11-34 cassette in just 1000km. Not uncommon as tri-bikes wear out the drivetrain just as fast. After I changed the front chain rings and rear cassette to reflect a better ratio is when it's lasting longer. Stock gearing are sometimes way too high to make any sense.

Sometimes I don't understand why people go to great lengths to bolt on a boat anchor with some mechanical drag (unless you have a Rohloff) in the name of cost effectiveness when all you have to do is, sit down and figure out which gears you use the most and figure out the correct chain ring and cassette for the ratios you use. But people don't consider this option and bolt on a boat anchor.

There are instances where IGH makes sense, but a derailleur system when taken well will last. Just maintain the chain and that will be what you'll be replacing.

"Thunk" shifting is when you shift while pedal load is applied. This is both bad on either IGH or derailleur. Ease up on the pedal then shift.

"Dead" shifting refers to people who shift the front derailleur or rear derailleur while the bike is not in motion and then forcing the cassette or chain to ramp up or down under extreme stress as the bike moves. This happens when you start up on a steep hill and then you stall out and wanting to start again on a lower gear. Not to mention that you are physically bending the chain when you shift the front derailleur to the adjacent chain ring from a complete dead stop. Many newbies do this. This is bad for the chain! ALWAYS pre-shift to a lower gear first before you climb a steep hill and downshift smoothly when necessary.

Steep grade riding.. This happens a lot to somebody who needs to prove that they can ride up a 22% grade hill while loaded and will continue to do so. What do you think you're doing to the chain and the drive train?