BikeArkansas

I recently finished a week long tour ride with a group. There were 4 persons that rode the entire 300 mile week long self supported tour ride. Four other riders joined for 2 to 4 days at a time. We had one day off during the week to explore some water falls and ride some dirt roads on our unloaded touring bikes.

Anyway, it was a good time, expcept one problem. I was the "group leader" somehow, I guess because I designed the route for this ride. All went well except one lady that could not get packed and ready to ride of a monring. She was a slow rider, which I could handle with no problems. However, everyone had to wait on her each morning. I finally said we would have no choice but to leave her. She got ready an hour early the next morning and left in front of the group.

I know many of you only tour solo, etc., but for you group tour riders, have you found a way to handle a situation that becomes a problem that causes tention on a group ride? All but one rider was ready to leave her if she would not get ready, but I did not want to leave her. How do you motivate? Help!

xyzzy834

I'm a solo bike tourist, except for occasional riding with people I meet along the way, so I may not be the best expert. But I do have an opinion about how this situation could have been handled.

I'd assume the attitude (and encourage the others likewise) that it's not critical to the success of the group overall to ride together. Those that want to ride with others will do so and those that prefer to travel at their own pace (or leave at their own time) will do so as well. Each evening, I'd communicate with the others about the target camping location for the next night. Allow everyone to discuss amongst themselves what time they want to leave in the morning and form groups if they want. Otherwise, I'll see you all at the next camp site. Have a great ride tomorrow!

If someone wants to leave at 10am and ride slowly, no problem. That's your choice. We'll happily see you at the next camp site. If someone wants to leave late AND ride with others, that person should be making those plans with others in advance. No problem. See you at the next camp.

I'd exchange cell phone numbers with everyone for use in case of trouble or an emergency change of plans.

Cyclesafe

When I did the North Star with ACA in 2006, we had a person just like the one you describe. She would act like she was unconscious while everyone decamped around her, then stick her head out of her tent as we were departing and wail at somebody to wait for her. She would then arrive in camp only after dinner had been prepared. The leader was stuck riding with her all day.

When you are touring with a group and the majority has agreed on something, the minority either has to go along or split off. The problem is that there are so many important issues in an unsupported ride that groups often subdivide themselves into many solo travelers.

+1 on xyz's solution.

For my group GDMBR trip this year, 10 of us have agreed to show up in Roosvile as if we were going to do the tour solo. I expect that one look at each other and each other's gear and we will subdivide into smaller groups on that basis alone. Then mileage and then departure time will parse out more subgroups.

Cyclebum

Sounds to me like you did a pretty good job of getting her motivated.

Next tour you get appointed leader, might better have a little 'this is the way it'll be' speech prepared.

dogontour

I went on a one week tour last fall with a group of people that I had never met (except the ride leader). The only rule on the ride was that we had to have previous touring experience so that the ride leader knew we could handle it. I woke up with everyone else but I cooked breakfast in camp and everyone else went off to eat breakfast somewhere down the road usually so I was always the last out of camp. It didn't bother me since I ride alone most of the time anyway. It didn't bother anyone else either to leave me behind because they knew I wouldn't have a problem getting to the campground at the end of the day. I think it's unrealistic to expect a group of people to wait around for the others in the morning as well as on the road. If they can't ride by themselves sometimes, or even most of the day, maybe they need to wait a year and gain better fitness so they stand a better chance of keeping up with someone else.

I don't think it's your job to motivate her (unless you're actually be paid perhaps). I think she should have been motivated before even going on a trip like that...unless she was coerced into it by a friend...then I can see her not wanting to get up or riding. But if that's the case, then the friend that's responsible for her should have to stick with her. I think you did the right thing telling her you'd leave without her the next morning.

Tiff

Torrilin

Maybe try talking with her privately, and ask if there is anything you can do to help next time?

I am a very slow rider, and I would feel really embarrassed and threatened in that situation, even if no one meant anything bad. Like a lot of folks, I'm bad at taking criticism.

Machka 

I've done a group tour twice and the way they handled things was to tell us when breakfast was (between 7 am and 8:30 am), when the cut-off time was for getting the baggage on the truck (8:30 am), and then left it up to us when we wanted to leave.

Some of the riders had breakfast at 7 am, dropped their stuff off immediately after, and were on the road by about 7:30. Others had breakfast about 8 am, dropped their stuff off about 8:25 am, and were on the road somewhere between 8:30 and 9:00 am. It was entirely up to the rider.

Neil_B

I was "that person" on the Bike Forums GAP/C & O ride last year. But Spinnaker and I knew going in I'd be that person, so we decided I was on my own the entire trip. It worked out pretty well.

rumrunn6

wutz the point of a group tour if you're riding all day every day alone?

stokell

I lead bike tours as a part-time job. I hear you! Participants who have their own agendas can cause some issues within the group as a whole.

May I suggest next time that the difficulty, the daily distances and all other expectations be clearly explained before the start of the tour. As you know, the group really needs to work together for the tour to be successful. Someone who seems to cause dissent in the group can poison the team spirit.

I try to mitigate, but still it happens. I offer SAG support at an extra cost and even provide a walkie-talkie so we can stay in touch with stragglers. Large tours even have 'sweeps' to hurry up the slow-pokes and provide assistance as needed.

Getting a group to stay together and enjoy being together is a real challenge. You are the tour leader. Take your leadership role and make positive change. Leading a tour is a great adventure. Don't give up!

BengeBoy 

Not at all clear from the OP what the expectations were before the tour started.

For the late riser / slow rider -- her expectations might have been sleeping in all morning, riding slow, finishing the tour in the dark, using headlights and tail lights. Other riders might have expected to rise before dawn, leave at first light, ride hard each day and be off the bikes by 3 p.m.

If the expectations were clear, and she was outside the norm, I'd say it's OK to leave her every morning. If there were no expectations were set in advance, then it was probably up to the group as a whole (not the leader) to discuss that a consensus was emerging en route that the whole group wanted to get moving earlier each day -- does she want to join the early depart, or ride alone?

dogontour

For me, I actually prefer to ride alone so I can stop when I want to, ride hard if I feel like it, take as many pictures as I want...etc. But I am still scared to camp alone. I've done it and I'm sure I'll do it again in the future but having company in the evening and not being the only one in a tent feels much better.

njkayaker

It looks like you handled it reasonably well! People have some obligation to conform to the needs of the group. Sometimes, they need to be told that.

Of course, the best way to deal with problems is to avoid them in the first place. For rides like this, one is better off knowing what the skills, etc of the participants are before the trip.

Note that you might have been able to split the group up into suitable subgroups. There isn't any reason for everybody to travel in lock-step.

njkayaker

It's kind of your responsibility to make sure your skills and inclinations match the group you are travelling with. If you are "bad at taking criticism", then it's even more of a requirement to keep from being the target of it!

Bikearound

To me situations like this on a group ride start even before the ride. If everyone knows beforehand what the pace and schedule is and the outcome for not keeping up the pace, then you don't have an issue with keeping the group happy. If the person who is slower at breaking camp or is a late sleeper, then they know right away that they might be doing the ride alone. I often ride with people who are faster than I am and I actually enjoy it if they ride off ahead of me. I don't want to hamper anyone else's experience of a ride and then again I don't want anyone to push there own expectations of a ride on me. If I know going in what to expect then the onus is on me to either participate and step it up or not.

LeeG

I would guess you folks had acknowledged that people would ride at different speeds and accomodate to different arrival times but somehow it was assumed everyone would start at the same time?

adamrice 

Sounds like the right thing to do is communicate, ideally before the tour or at least at the beginning of the tour. Either "this is how I see things happening: communal breakfast at 7:30, strike camp at 8:00, rolling by 8:30, so y'all get on board" or "this is how I see things happening […] If you want to do something different, that's cool, but you're on your own."

Torrilin

Dude, look at the locations . I'm not the slow rider in question, just offering how it might feel to have been on the other end.

People who are scared, embarrassed, or angry often react badly. And a lot of the time, fixing the miscommunication is very easy when you talk to the affected person after they've had a chance to cool off. And honestly, I find I learn a lot more about where my screwups are when I talk to the person who I pissed off. Sometimes it's as simple as I was a lot louder than I meant to be, or the other person heard me as angry when I was really scared.

We're strangers on the internet. We can't read the slow rider's mind. But BikeArkansas can just go straight to the source.

BigBlueToe

Interesting. It sounds like more needs to be discussed before the tour starts about what to do in certain situations, what "group" means, etc.

I've never toured with a group, but I've fallen in with people twice on the west coast that has turned into an impromptu group. In both cases I felt I had the right to leave the others when I felt like it, but I would announce it first - the earlier I made my plans known the more considerate I'd be, but I could have ridden ahead or stayed behind at any moment if I chose.

If I was going to ride with a group, I'd make it clear that I may or may not choose to ride with anyone during the day. After we decide on a destination for the evening, it's up to each person whether he/she chooses to ride with someone else or not.

I think it would also be wise to talk in advance about what to do if serious personality clashes arose. I'd like the right to leave the group without feeling like I was leaving others high and dry. I'd be equipped to tour alone, and they should too.

My personal feeling is that if you know you have the option of leaving when you want you're more likely to stay together. If you feel trapped you're more likely to want to escape.

njkayaker

I didn't think you were!

Note that I am not saying you don't do these things! All I am saying that these things need to happen (ideally). That is, people should take some responsibility. It isn't reasonable to dump everything on the "leader".

All I am saying is that if a person has particular issues, they have a responsibility to adapt to the group too.

Many people (not necessarily you!) have little sense about cooperating with a group. They sometimes think that they don't have to adapt. And, they sometimes take advantage of the group.

No one is trying to read anybody's minds. As far as I can tell, he handled it fairly reasonably.

It looks like the problem in this case was early-morning pokiness.

spinnaker

No you weren't that person. You were always ready to go well before everyone. Riding speed was not the OPs complaint.

You ride a bit slower than everyone but there is not too much you can do about that other than getting an early start and recognizing that you might be riding on your own from time to time. You did both of these very well. You were well aware of your limitations and I think you compensated very well in order to avoid friction in the group.


I never got the feeling that you were holding anyone back. Perhaps my rules were a bit worried at the beginning but I quickly learned that there was nothing to worry about and you would be just fine. The only thing I felt bad about is if we went out to dinner and you had not yet arrived or were just arriving at our destination. But I think you understood that you really can't ask a big hungry group of people to wait too long.


The OP was talking about something different. Someone that refuses to get started in the morning. We both know that we had such a person on our tour and it was not you. Someone's physical limitations are excusable, chronic tardiness is not.



I am not sure how to handle that situation other than people need to know upfront what is expected of them for the tour. I came up with a list of rules. I know Machka strongly objected to them. Perhaps a bit harsh. I have always believed in being blunt and to the point. They way I figure it is we are not children and should be able to tolerate a bit of bluntness when someone is laying down the rules. Some people just need to know ahead of time what is expected of them.

The rules probably need a bit of work to make them a bit more PC. If folks want to take a look and help to wordsmith them then I would be happy to post the, again. Just let me know.

Machka 

I don't object to having rules (or better ... "guidelines") for a group tour. I objected to the tone of your rules. They came across like you were trying to herd a bunch of reluctant 13-year olds.

Here's the link ... and if you read Post #62 again, you'll see that I tried to offer some assistance with making your rules sound like they are guidelines addressed to a group of reasonable adults based on the the guidelines set out for a long-running organised tour I did twice and really enjoyed.
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-group-touring.

I'll also say again ... read the brochures of groups/companies who have organised a lot of tours and see what they say.

kayakdiver

Just yell at them. Works on my local group ride

BikeArkansas

I will try to explain a few things that have been discussed.
First, this lady did not want to ride alone, but she said she just could not get ready by 9:00 in the morning and wanted others to wait on her.

The riding was not the problem. She was the slowest rider, but not so bad I could not stay with her. The problem was getting ready of a morning.

For a self supported tour rider to be ready by 9:00 in the morning is not exactly the toughest assignment out there, in my opinion.

Everyone else was ready. She was slow getting ready, but she wanted to ride with the group.

This was a volunteer situation, not a paid job. I just agreed to be the ride leader.

Everyone understood the "guidelines", even the lady, she just "could not" get ready.

LeeG

BA, was it a commonly understood expectation that the ride would start together at 9am?