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  1. #1
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    my Kona Sutra broke today.

    i am currently riding my bike around europe. started a couple months ago and have ridden about 3000km on my Kona Sutra since i bought it in February. admittedly i have been carrying a lot of weight on my rear rack (about 40 kilos?)
    well today when i was just outside of Munich, Germany the rack braze-on on the rear chainstay snapped off. i went to a bike shop and had them jimmy rig another attachment on the frame. my question is what would you recommend doing for a long term solution?
    should i try to weld the braze on back to the frame or continue to go with the fastened brackets which i put on today? or perhaps it is time for a new bike.
    overall i am very happy with the performance of the 'Sutra' but i would say that it is more suited as a commuter than a serious touring bike. it simply does not have the strength to carry heavy loads and the disk brake setup creates problems with the racks and fenders.
    i know this is a very concise description but any ideas would be recommended.

  2. #2
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    It can be fixed and made better than new!

    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...he-Adirondacks

  3. #3
    It's as easy as riding a dannwilliams's Avatar
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    Topeak makes a disc model rear rack that works well on the Sutra. Bolts will screw in by the rear drop-out. The brazed on eyelets are not good for supporting the rear rack, as you found out.
    edit: I have the 2005 model Sutra
    "It doesn't get easier, you just go faster."

  4. #4
    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
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    I'd guess that if you can get it properly welded, that would be a better solution than a bracket, which is likely to move over time - especially with 40 kilos(!) on the rack.

    Incidentally, 40 kilos is a hell of a load on a rear rack. I might think about touring with 40 kilos distributed between front and rear, (no, actually I wouldn't) but never with 40kg on the back. Even the Thorn expedition tourers, which are pretty much my gold standard for toughness, carry a max of about 55 kg overall and if you want them to handle properly, they recommend 35 kg. So I think you're probably pushing the envelope a bit on the Sutra.
    There have been many days when I haven't felt like riding, but there has never been a day when I was sorry I rode.

  5. #5
    Senior Member fast_track's Avatar
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    Just read another post on the forums earlier where a guy had the same issue. It's a very recent post as well. See these two links:
    http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/p...id=151085&v=48
    and
    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...he-Adirondacks

    Ok, so it looks like someone else posted this before me. Must forgive me, I've had a LONG day!
    Last edited by fast_track; 06-28-10 at 04:03 PM. Reason: I can't read I guess!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by vajradrifter View Post
    admittedly i have been carrying a lot of weight on my rear rack (about 40 kilos?)
    That is a near-absurd amount of weight! 88 pounds. What the heck are you carrying??

    Either your estimate is too high or you are carrying too much stuff.

    It's unlikely that any "normal" touring bike would handle that amount of weight on a little eyelet for very long.

    People seem to tour with much less weight (25 kg, on the high side) and often use front panniers to distribute the load.
    Last edited by njkayaker; 06-28-10 at 04:11 PM.

  7. #7
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    third (or fourth?) sutra on BF with this problem... fixable though, as was posted above. Use 6mm eyelets instead of 5mm when you get it fixed.

  8. #8
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    thanks friends!

    my weight estimate might be a little high, just a guess and since i am in europe i am using kilos whichi am not used to. i think i am carrying about 70 pounds in the back and 30 pounds on the front(although might be less?).
    i am on a long bike journey and taking everything to be self sustained such as tent, food,cooking supplies,clothing,water,tools,etc..i might be carrying too much stuff but i am using everything i am taking with me and not concerned about speed. i knew this could be a problem when i bought the bike.
    i appreciate all of the helpful comments. PEACE, Wyndham

  9. #9
    Senior Member JeanM's Avatar
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    Too much weight. Are you even using front paniers?
    I wouldn't load my LHT anywhere that heavy, likely not even in total. 70 lb is pretty much as heavy as I've ever needed, even for two week self-supporting.

    Have the bracket welded back.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Commodus's Avatar
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    Yup the Sutra has this issue, as has already been pointed out. That's why I recommend using a Tubus Disco rack on this bike. Solve all your problems at once.

  11. #11
    Senior Member zeppinger's Avatar
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    I toured for two months with WAY too much stuff. When I weighed it all at the end it was 40 pounds. These days I ride with around 30, even for very long trips. I can not imagine what you have with you...

  12. #12
    Training Wheel Graduate twodeadpoets's Avatar
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    Originally I was going to say the Sutra but then I saw the part about the 40 kilos...
    "Ride Like an Orca!" ~tdp
    "People who enjoy waving flags, don't deserve to have one" ~Banksy


  13. #13
    Senior Member Doug64's Avatar
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    FWIW-- That is an awful lot of weight. Granted you may have used everything, but did you need it? My wife and I did an 11 week fully loaded-- She had 30 lbs and I had 40lbs. We ended up sending some of that home, so we ended up even lighter. The point being you may be able to go a little more "spartan" and find it a lot easier on you and the bike. We come from a mountaineering background so packing light has never been an issue. I'm surprised that you have not had any wheel problems. Good luck on the remainder of your adventure. My advice-- take any advice with a grain of salt

  14. #14
    Senior Member zeppinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug64 View Post
    My advice-- take any advice with a grain of salt
    I would be more worried that he might take your advice with 40 kilos of salt....

  15. #15
    Bike addict, dreamer AdamDZ's Avatar
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    Yup. That was me with the same problem. See the links referenced above. I had it fixed and improved for $60.

    A.

  16. #16
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    Vajradrifter, have you contacted Kona about this? I realize you're on tour and all, but really, I'm curious what the manufacturer has to say about this. They should send you a whole new bike, really.

    About all that weight... yeah, that's a bit of weight, but if you don't mind hauling it, your bike shouldn't mind hauling it. There's no excuse for the frame braking. Does Kona literature give a weight limit for those braze-ons? If not, I wouldn't bother to tell them how much weight was on there.

  17. #17
    Bike addict, dreamer AdamDZ's Avatar
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    The framebuilder who fixed mine said they're not braze-ons but actually a part of the frame with very little metal between the eyelet and the dropout that may actually make them weaker.

    Vajradrifter, did you ever lay your bike sideways on the ground? I think that's what broke it for me: the eyelets are not designed to hold any significant weight in this direction. Also, as many posters pointed out the problem is the disc specific rack mount that acts like a lever putting undue stress on the eyelets and can cause problems. The original Kona mount is particularly bad as it uses a regular rack with a long, thin tube spacer to clear the disc brakes.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by vajradrifter View Post
    I think i am carrying about 70 pounds in the back and 30 pounds on the front(although might be less?).
    Crazy!!

    Quote Originally Posted by vajradrifter View Post
    i am on a long bike journey and taking everything to be self sustained such as tent, food,cooking supplies,clothing,water,tools,etc..i might be carrying too much stuff but i am using everything i am taking with me and not concerned about speed. i knew this could be a problem when i bought the bike.
    i appreciate all of the helpful comments. PEACE, Wyndham
    Generally, you don't need any more stuff for a "long bike journey" than you would need for a week (other than warmer clothing).

    People manage to hike the Appalachian trail for 6 months only carrying 30lbs (you might need more stuff for bicycle touring but not three times as much!).

    You aren't interested in speed but, presumably, you are interested in reliability. Too much weight decreases reliability.

    It would be interesting to see your gear list.

    =============

    Quote Originally Posted by JeanM View Post
    Have the bracket welded back.
    Braze the eyelet.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamDZ View Post
    The framebuilder who fixed mine said they're not braze-ons but actually a part of the frame with very little metal between the eyelet and the dropout that may actually make them weaker.
    The eyelets at the dropout are never braze-ons (there might be rare exceptions). The eyelets are formed as part of the drop-out. This method is standard and has been common for many, many years. It works fine (except for the Sutra!).

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamDZ View Post
    Vajradrifter, did you ever lay your bike sideways on the ground? I think that's what broke it for me: the eyelets are not designed to hold any significant weight in this direction.
    This is very interesting. It makes a lot of sense. The load weight normally pushes the eyelet onto the dropout. The eyelet still has to handle some sideways load even when the bike is upright.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhm View Post
    Vajradrifter, have you contacted Kona about this? I realize you're on tour and all, but really, I'm curious what the manufacturer has to say about this. They should send you a whole new bike, really.
    This isn't really a good idea because the new bike will break in the same way in the future (unless they have changed the dropouts). The thing he should do is fix this one.
    Last edited by njkayaker; 06-29-10 at 10:04 AM.

  19. #19
    Senior Member JeanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    Braze the eyelet.
    Thanks. My English isn't always fantastic.

  20. #20
    rhm
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rhm View Post
    Vajradrifter, have you contacted Kona about this? I realize you're on tour and all, but really, I'm curious what the manufacturer has to say about this. They should send you a whole new bike, really.
    This isn't really a good idea because the new bike will break in the same way in the future (unless they have changed the dropouts). The thing he should do is fix this one.
    Ah, well, you make a good point. What I was thinking is: a whole new bike, free, is always a good idea.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeanM View Post
    Thanks. My English isn't always fantastic.
    Your English is fine. Other people talk about welding too.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhm View Post
    Ah, well, you make a good point. What I was thinking is: a whole new bike, free, is always a good idea.
    What you suggested is generally the reasonable thing to do!

  22. #22
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    There is a rule for deciding what to take on a trip that I read years ago.

    1. Gather everything together that you need for a tour.

    2. Get rid of the stuff that you can get by without.

    3. Take half of what remains.

    As an illustration, on my first "big" trip (not a bike tour), I carried 65 lbs. I returned home with 25 lbs. On my next big trip, I carried 18 lbs. A few months later, I pruned it down to about about 10 lbs.

    I am still working to perfect the art of taking as little as possible. Perhaps one day I will succeed in reducing the load to nothing! (Except maybe a toothbrush...)
    Last edited by acantor; 06-29-10 at 11:38 AM.

  23. #23
    Bike addict, dreamer AdamDZ's Avatar
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    Yeah, mine looks now like the eyelets are not going anywhere soon I'd rather have it fixed with larger eyelets than get a new frame.
    Last edited by AdamDZ; 06-29-10 at 11:49 AM.

  24. #24
    Bike addict, dreamer AdamDZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acantor View Post
    There is a rule for deciding what to take on a trip that I read years ago.

    1. Gather everything together that you need for a tour.

    2. Get rid of the stuff that you can get by without.

    3. Take half of what remains.

    As an illustration, on my first "big" trip (not a bike tour), I carried 65 lbs. I returned home with 25 lbs. On my next big trip, I carried 18 lbs. A few months later, I pruned it down to about about 10 lbs.

    I am still working to perfect the art of taking as little as possible. Perhaps one day I will succeed in reducing the load to nothing! (Except maybe a toothbrush...)
    I can't imagine how you do that. 30lbs seems possible to me but 10?! I just can't think minimalistic like that I carry 50-60 lbs that includes close to 10 lbs of photo gear.

  25. #25
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    100 lbs. of gear? My word! When I crossed the country in '99 I carried a lot of weight. Like AdamDZ, I had a lot of photo stuff, including a Mamiya 645 with a metered finder, three lenses and a power winder that used 5 AA batteries. Also, there weren't as many light tent options as there are now, at least not many that I new about. The bike itself was a big ol' 63cm Cannondale T-700, and it was fitted with Beckman racks and bags. I put the whole thing on a truck scale in MT. It read 90 lbs.

    I am leaving ona three-day trip tomorrow. I will be carrying considerably less.
    "I've wanted you to succeed, but watching you find excuse after excuse after excuse and then laugh it off as the loveable, quirky, chubby guy is getting old."--Ill.Clyde

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