k9 gromit

Hello all!

I'm a 48 year old touring newbie and I just bought a 46cm LHT frame for a ground up build. Nobody had a complete bike in stock, let alone one in Trukaccino like I wanted. Found one online and got it significantly below list.

I'm getting out of motorcycle touring so I've got enough cash from a motorcycle sale to do a pretty good build but I don't want to go beyond the point of diminishing returns, i.e. spending twice as much on a component for 10% more usability/quality.

I got fitted at my LBS for the frame size and they will be assisting on the build, doing the headset and bottom bracket stuff for me. Goals for the bike are to begin serious fully loaded touring adventures in mid September. First long trip will be the Erie Canal from Buffalo to Albany over 10 days. It goes right by my house so if I bit off too much, I can bail.

Suggestions on components, racks, bags? (leaning towards Ortlieb classic rollers).

Help me spend my dosh, but lets not get too crazy. I've already got a Brooks Flyer waiting to go on...

cyclist2000

what I have on my rig

Rear Rack: Tubus Stainless Cosmo
Front Rack: Tubus Tara
Front Panniers: Classic Roller front
Rear Panniers: Bike packer plus
Handlebar bag: Ortlieb ultimate 5

fietsbob

Ortlieb Roller classics are a good choice , I use mine all the time, even take them to the Grocery store as shopping bags to bring food home in when I'm not riding my bike to get there. . get a medium rack pack , they will clip to the bags when mounted crossways, and keep your load small enough to fit in there and the 4 panniers and things will stay dry and have a minimal # of bags to cope with off the bike .

Tubus racks are a perfect companion, steel 10mm tube.

Probably use a mountain bike drive train and either drop bars with bar ends for shifters on drop bars

Or .. dropping a dosh investment, I really love my Rohloff Hub, internal oil bath German Engineered 14 gears equally spaced, I recommend the External shift type , there is a torque reaction arm and a chain tensioner included for retrofitting bikes with vertical dropouts, (its like a short cage rear derailler but it stays over the one Cog on the hub)

I have trekking / Butterfly / figure 8 bars
so the grip shifter and straight bar controls slide on the open near end.
It's BMW motorcycle like quality made [for motor bike context]

Leave the steerer tube fairly long , you can add spacers above the stem to lower the bars ,
but you know , Measure twice cut once applies here too ,
I have 2 stems on my steerer , the lower one holds the handle bar bag. you add a section of 1" tube in the place of the handlebars on the lower one, Ortlieb's Bar bag mount, and put computer down there instead of occupying hand positions..

But 46 cm frame (18 inch) is pretty small , maybe you will not have that luxury..

Another kludge that may work for Rohloff shifter on drop bars is the HubBub adapter ,
it screws into the end of handlebars , road bike type so you can fit the grip shifter there [they require a 7/8"-22.2mm tube road bars are larger..

a bit more creative kludge .. there is the use of a common seat post as a mount for the shifter.
they are 7/8" at the top, clamping the top portion of one of those in 1" in #2 stem can also go ..
you can place it above the main stem or below [benefit of threadless steerers and stems they function just like another spacer in the stack]
and mount the R'off grip shifter on it.
or hire a frame builder to make a custom stem to combine functions.

I have a clamp on spacer right above the top headset race, QBP"locking Spacer"
it keeps the fork in the bike when you pull the top stem to pack in a box to fly to destination .. if not doing a loop from your door.

staehpj1

Just one guy's opinion, but...
I think you probably already passed that point when you decided to do a build rather than buy the complete.

cyccommute 

Nay. Tubus Cargo. Matches the Tara in color. I'm not a fan of rear lowriders either.

cyccommute 

Headset: Threadless. Can't go wrong with Chris King
Bars: Salsa Bell Lap. Nice bend with comfortable placement of the brake levers.
Crank: XT trekking Hollowtech II. External bottom bracket that is simple to install and work on
Wheels: Phil Wood FS hubs (front and rear). You could be buried with them. Velocity Synergy rims or Aerohead rims. Off-center drilling on the rear. DT Alpine III spokes.
Brakes: Paul's Touring Canti
Front Derailer: Tiagra triple. A true gem that is much better than it's more expensive cousins
Rear Derailer: XT or XTR
Shifters: I like STI but some don't. Try a bike with them before you decide.
Saddle: I like Brooks but may they take a little getting used to. The B17 and B17N are a bit softer and easier to ride just out of the box
Seatpost/Stem: Race Face. The two bolt seatpost is great for adjustments without having to mess with the saddle position
Water bottle cages: Camelbak for water, King water bottle cages for sports drink.

Cost? Around 2.5K but it's really, really, really good stuff.

badamsjr

I'm assuming that at 46cm your LHT has 26in wheel/tire combo. If you do not take fietsbob's advice on the Rohloff hub, I would go with an 11-34 9spd cassette, XTR RD, 24/34/48 tripple. You can get good price/value fron XT cranks, with the newer external BB. I use Planet Bike fenders, and they are great when the heavens open up!

If you want more stopping power, you could install a disc fork and disc brake on the front (where your most effective braking is generated). If you are concerned about color coordination, you would have to paint the disc fork to match, though.

NoGaBiker

Howdy -- welcome! You sound like my twin. Same age, just bought a 56 LHT frame only, 2009 model, because I wanted the Olive color. You certainly don't have to spend a fortune -- mine is into me for about 1500 all up, including racks, bags, etc. I built rather than buying a whole bike because I wanted brifters, not bar-ends.

Everyone will have a big, boring list of components so I won't bother with that. But I will say the idea about adding a different fork so you can go to a disk setup seems pretty over the top to me, unless money is absolutely no object. I assume you don't weigh a whole lot if you're riding a 46cm frame. Try calipers first and only consider a disk if you have a problem with calipers.

I second the Ortlieb Rollers suggestion -- they work great for me. Unbelievable prices from PBK (probikekit.com) in the UK. Free shipping and all 4 delivered to my door in a week for $200! Available in 7 colors, I think.

If you like brifters, I find the Tiagra to be a great value, and they work super well. And I come from the road-racing side of the sport where I've spent ALL my time riding top end Campy Record 10 or Shimano Dura-Ace gruppos. My Tiagras work great with an XT rear derailleur. I use a 34t rear cluster.

I love the Terry Fly (butterfly for ladies) saddle, but there are many choices in that field. I also love the FSA Wing hbar -- it has a flat shape on the upper section that is very comfortable to rest your palms on when you don't need the brake levers. And cheap.

k9 gromit

So true, so true. ;-)

k9 gromit

Wow...I crossposted this on another site and between there and here it has been almost unanimous that I should contact Peter White for my wheels. Those Phil Wood hubs look awful sweet but they double the wheel price. OW! Keep the suggestions coming, I'm taking notes and doing the math...
And I promise pictures. Just got notice that my frame ships on Friday!

cyclist2000

but phil wood hubs are great. I have a 25 year old set on my rode bike, still rolls great.

twodeadpoets

Here's my bike build list:

Frameset: Surly LHT 56cm (olive)

Components:Wheelset (I laced my own but you can get this same set from Peter White and guaranteed):Accessories:Extras:Racks (I prefer lowriders for stability):Bags:

LeeG

more conflicting suggestions. I like higher mounted front racks on 26" wheeled bikes as the panniers are too low to the curb for my comfort with low riders on 26" wheels and the LHT doesn't seem to be that affected by the higher load. An OldManMountain Sherpa front rack without the axle mounts and attached to the top eyelets on the fork dropout make it possible to have the rack within 1 1/4" of a 1.75" tire. The handling of my 26" wheel LHT with top rack mounted panniers is perfectly acceptable where low riders were the prefered setup for 700c wheel. One of the things that rack does is cut down on water thrown up by the 1.75 Panaracer T-serv Protex tires. Those tires are fairly light and comfy for loaded or fast riding. There are a lot more tire choices depending on your preferences and road conditions. Schwalbe Marathon Supremes are nice but pricey touring tires.

re. wheels, I like tdp suggestion of 719 rims with the front Son generator and 36 spoke rear wheel. This is one of those areas that can vary according to load and roads. If you are a heavy person anticipating carrying heavy loads and big tires you might consider going all the way to something like a Rhynolite rim on the rear and 719 on the front. I've always wanted a Phil hub but could never justify the expense. I'd rather have two sets of wheels than one that uses $400hub.

How about one set of light wheels with 32 spoke Synergy rims on Deore hubs, with a Synergy OC rear rim for fast unloaded riding? You could set those up with some light 1.5" tires. Then your heavy tour wheels could have the 719rim on the front Son generator and a Rhynolite rear rim for bigger tires/loads and big trips.

$.02 is that a rear rack with lower rails is a LOT more convenient than not. You can remove/add panniers without affecting top loads. I used a Topeak SuperTourist DX for awhile before I could get the Tubus Cargo, then I switched back to using the Topeak because it was more convenient. I just got some lower bars brazed on the Cargo so it's back on.

NoReg

My feeling is go large. compared to harley parts, everything on a bike is dirt cheap. A basic wheelset for a harley, that would be quality, but spokes and some billet parts is 2-3 K. Avon rubber... You can have the very best stuff on a touring bike for a few weeks of gas in my pick-up. Why hold back? The good stuff lasts a lifetime both in durability and in being likeable enough one doesn't feel the need to go after something else at the first sign of some new toy on the market. They are basicaly making the same Phil hub they did 35 years ago, only difference is that it is CNCd, and as a result the nominal price is the same as it was back then (with the exception of the upgrade on cassette rear hubs).

Good wheels do not need to be made by Peter White. Mainly what he provides is the reputation that you don't have to worry, but lots of other guys can build wheels. If you have a local shop that has serious folks at it, who understand your needs, then you can let them handle it.

Doug64

Low gear option:

An option for a 44/32/22 cankset, 11-34 cassette, and STI shifters.

Sugino XD500 mtn crank, 103 mm bottom bracket, Tiagra FD, Tiagra STI shifters, LX rear derailleur, XT 11-34 cassette.

Build is almost done.

NoReg

Never built out a Surly, is a BB as narrow as that normal?

TonyS

Nah... I built my Nashie for about $700, with what I consider to be good parts.

It can be done.

LHT in Madison

You need to decide what you are going to do for handlebars, drop or trekking or straight MTB bars. Lots of other parts like brake levers and shifters depend on this decision, so this decision needs to be made early.

Some people choose their crankset and cassette based on getting the lowest gear possible, but you really should try to match your rear cassette to your chainrings so that you do not have a bunch of redundant gears. I prefer a road crankset with MTB cassette, I have one and a half step gearing with my outer (52t) and middle (42t) chainrings and a low granny with the inner chainring (24t). That gives me a lot of evenly spaced gears in the range of 50 to 90 gear inches where I spend the vast majority of my time, a few higher gears for long shallow down hills and some extremely low gears for climbing steep hills.

My recent build list on a Thorn Sherpa is listed below:
- XT 760 hubs
- Salsa Gordo rims, 26 inch, 36 spoke
- Wheelsmith DB-14 spokes
- Zefal rim tape
- Planet Bike Hard Core fenders
- Nashbar cantilever brakes, conventional straddle yoke and straddle cable
- Tektro R200A brake levers
- Nashbar cyclocross bar top brake levers
- 3ttt Prima 220 handlebars
- Origin8 stem, 90mm, 17 degrees
- Headset mixture of FSA and Cane Creek components
- Shimano BS64 eight speed bar end shifters
- Vintage Suntour LeTech high normal front deraileur
- Shimano XT M739 rear deraileur
- Sram 11-32 eight speed cassette, 11/12/14/16/18/21/26/32
- Campagnolo Veloce crankset 52/42/24, the 24t is a no-name brand substituted for the original 30t
- Campagnolo bottom bracket 111mm
- Ritchey MTB V4 clipless pedals
- Generic seatpost
- Salsa seatpost clamp
- Brooks Conquest saddle
- SI90 bicycle computer
- Garmin Legend GPS for when I am not sure where I am going
- Surly nice racks front and rear for touring, but use lighter gear around town.

I am still sorting out tires, so no brand and model listed above.

rwp

That's how I'd do it if I had the money to spend. Unfortunately I didn't so my LHT has a Phil Wood hub on the rear (it's the older 7-speed freewheel design - less strong than the modern version but plenty strong nonetheless). The front has an older Shimano 600 hub. Both have Mavic A319 rims and straight gauge wheelsmith spokes. All of my other components are similar to cyccommute's but one or two steps down in cost - for example my derailler is a Deore LX rather than XT or XTR. The net result is a decent quality but not outstanding LHT for about $1200.

Usually gearing is very important in a touring bike but you can ignore that issue for now since the Erie canal is essentially flat.

NoReg

Actually, I am not sure your older freewheel unit is less strong. It doesn't have or need the outboard bearing support, due to the massive axle size. There is the tradeoff in freewheels, but they always worked for me. While it isn't really the point, for the weight, freewheel Phils are a very good option, which may explain why they remain in use. I prefer the freewheel ones, but I am currently running White Ind, since it is a pretty good compromise on price, and durability, and weight (TI shell) in a cassette hub

KDC1956

I would put on a surly nice rack both front and back and use a Brooks B17 Special but that's me.You may like a mountain gear set like 44,32,22t.
I have Shimano brake levers on my setup.I like the Carradice Panniers and there saddle bags too some like them and a lot don't like them you sure have lots of stuff to pick from now days.I like my down tube shifters on my bicycle.I would say look long and hard take your time to get it setup the way you want it to be what you like some will like it and some want that's life.For a rear cassette I would go for a 11-34 you will be happy I think I sure put a lot of
money in my setup but it fits my style of ridding.And I don't who likes it or not.That's my 2 cents on your build good luck and enjoy it when you are done it will last a very long time with a little TLC.

Doug64

The use of the 103mm BB is to keep the optimum chain line (45-47mm) when using STI shifters, Road front derailleur, and the Sugino DX 500 mtn crankset. I have found that in most cases when using a mtn crankset (usually designed for a 50mm chainline) a shorter bottom bracket is needed,e.g., The Sugino DX600 "trekking" 48/36/26 crankset uses a 110mm, but switching to the DX 500 44/32/22 mtn crank on the same bike needed the 103mm to maintain the proper chainline.

I've used this set up on several bikes, and find that it works well if you want low gearing with STI shifters. I think one of the reasons touring bike manufactures use bar end shifters and mtn front derailleurs is that the bar ends can handle the greater throw of the mtn FD's. This allows them more flexability in crankset selection. You will seldom see a stock touring bike with STI shifters and a crankset smaller than 48/36/26. Bar ends shifters are also cheaper.

I'm building my wife's new touring bike now and am using this set up on her custom built frame.

Garthr

Peter gets the ink here because he has the fancy website. Joe Young is my preferred builder, call him .... talk to him .... and you'll see why. www.youngwheels.com

BigBlueToe

I built my LHT from a frame. I've taken it on three long tours and had no problems, despite carrying stupid-heavy loads. I don't have all of the parts commited to memory, so here are just a few thoughts. I built the wheels with Mavic 719 rims and double-butted spokes. I haven't broken any (and I've had major problems with breaking spokes in the past.) I wouldn't cut the steering tube. Once you do you can't go back. You may decide after 5 years you want to raise your bars. I'd just use spacers and keep it long. Who cares how dorky it looks? (I don't, though you might.) I have Ortlieb Classic Rollers and I have no complaints. I feel very comfortable that they won't leak despite the intensity of the rain. I put Schwalbe Marathon tires on and haven't had a flat. They seem to roll great.

rwp

To be honest, I'm not really sure it's less strong either but that's what I have heard from others. I used it because the cost was half that of the cassette version and I don't really miss the two fewer cogs. Glad to hear that others like them too.