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  1. #26
    Life is a fun ride safariofthemind's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing. Fascinating.

    Are you going for the minimalist black and white look? It's very stern in appearance right now. A judicious, small amount of color accents that repeat those in your last photo with the peace sign may make it even sweeter, just my 2 cents.

  2. #27
    djb
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    thanks for putting up the photos, very neat to see it becoming a rolling bike.

    Have you ever used a Brooks before? I got my first one this summer, a B17 as well and I am very very pleased with it. Have had a few niggling positioning issues, but once I figured out what I was doing wrong, its great and now has about 1500k on it, or a 1000 miles and the shape is nicely "shaped". Initially from being new, it took only about 6 or 7 one hour rides of about 20k or so before my seat bones were not sore after the hour. So all in all, about 100 miles and then I could be on it for many hours and be fine. I would suggest putting some tape on the rails so that you can tell exactly how much you move it when you do position changes, just so you dont make the mistake I did and move it too far one way and not really realize it (while concentrating on other stuff like angle) I find it to be a very unique seat feel and one I very much enjoy now-and when riding my 2 other bikes with regular seats, I very much miss the B17.

    Back to your bike, I was rather surprised to see that you went with a 53/42/30--especially because of the 37 tires. Are you not going to be loading this bike up with gear also? I use a 50/39/30 + 11-32, riding on 28s, and I find these gears very versatile, with the 50-11 or 12 allowing me to do downhills nicely at 40-45mph regularly. You have however bought and installed this crankset, so its done. You might want to try out some road 28s sometime that will make the bike much more sprightly when unloaded, partly as they will be lighter (tires and tubes) and can be at 115-120psi so if you roads are good, the bike will be faster and climb easier too.

    I think the B+W look is neat. All the best with the bars etc, hope you are happy with the ride and that you find the Brooks interesting.
    Last edited by djb; 10-05-10 at 11:43 PM.

  3. #28
    Senior Member ullearn's Avatar
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    Sorry to take so long to reply, I didn't notice any alerts from bikeforums that showed anyone responded.

    Quote Originally Posted by djb View Post
    Have you ever used a Brooks before?
    It's my first Brooks and I hope the break in goes well, I have found I am not too picky though when it comes to the seat. Great tip on the Tape

    Quote Originally Posted by djb View Post
    you went with a 53/42/30--especially because of the 37 tires. Are you not going to be loading this bike up with gear also? I use a 50/39/30 + 11-32, riding on 28s
    I am not so concerned with the 53 as much as I am with the 30, considering the LHT comes with 48-36-26. I am just hoping my low gear 30-11 is low enough to get me up hills. The triple I pulled off oh my Litespeed seen in my profile pic.

    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    Love the CND spacer where did that come from ?, thickness options?
    I actually got the spacers as a freebie when I bought the LHT fork from a guy here in Austin, I need to cut down the fork so I will measure it when I do to let you know. I tried search the web but can't find them anywhere. Sorry.

  4. #29
    Senior Member ullearn's Avatar
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    It took forever to get the bars in from Nashbar and the build still isn't done, but here are some updated build pics. The fork needs cutting too.

    For the traditional look



    Though this is more what I was going for



    Took me a while to decide which way to mount these butterfly / trekking bars


  5. #30
    djb
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    Quote Originally Posted by ullearn View Post
    I am not so concerned with the 53 as much as I am with the 30, considering the LHT comes with 48-36-26. I am just hoping my low gear 30-11 is low enough to get me up hills.
    not sure if you are familiar with gear inches, but your 30granny-34rear gives a 24 gear inch low. A bit lower than my present cross bike with 30-32. Perfectly fine for the rather hilly stuff I ride on sometimes out here unloaded (well, I always have one bag on, repair stuff and lunch or clothes or whatever so it can have easily 10lbs of stuff)

    As a reference for touring however, my old touring bike originally had about a 25 inch low, but I changed it to about a 22 inch low, which was essentially a "gear" lower, which was very very appreciated when I was fully loaded and in hilly areas. Again, dont know what you plan to do with this bike, your present low will be fine if unloaded or lightly loaded, assuming you are of average fitness and know how to use gears properly, but then the steepness and length of hills comes into play--but the amount of weight on the bike makes a huge difference to what is doable and what is unpleasant.

    in any case, if down the road you see a diff crank set would be more appropriate, heck, you buy one and put it on, it would not be a big operation and could make things a lot more enjoyable depending on what you do with the bike.

  6. #31
    djb
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    "44-32-22 with a 12-34"

    I personally would find this too low, not that it wouldnt be fine for loaded touring, but more cuz unloaded it really is waaay to low overall. I realize that realistically nearly all of us spend 80-90% of the time in the middle to low range ofo gears, so I agree completely on the principle. I guess its just cuz I see a bike being used for touring but also will be used a lot a lot doing regular old unloaded rides. I do find that I spend most of the time in the middle chainring, in my case a 39. I do however put it into the 50 on downhills, catching a draft behind a big truck or with a tailwind (I ride mostly in town). Just from old habits, I dont like using the 11 and 12 tooths that much, but from my experience with the 50-39-30, I could see a 48-36-26 being a really good touring crank, while still being very useable for allthe unladen riding we do as well. If I were to have to replace my crank, I would go with one, as it would still be very much useable in the middle to upper middle gears that I use on short fast rides, plus a bit fun on downhills still (as you say, with a 11 or 12, it would still allow you to spin up to 40-45mph or 60-70kph) but importantly, it would still be pretty low for having weight on the bike.
    I am not a strong strong rider, but I dont mind climbing, and a 26 granny and 34 cassette would still be nice and low, about 21 gear inches.

    our comments make me think of the expression, "nothing in life is free except bad advice"

    we all have an opinion dont we? Everyone is different strength wise and speed wise, so I guess the best thing for gearing is to go from what you have used a lot, and think unbiasedly how a change would be beneficial to how you ride.

  7. #32
    Senior Member ullearn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    I use extra steerer tube length with my trekking bar equipped bike to fit a 2nd stem below the handlebar mounting stem ,
    to support the handlebar bag's quick release mount.. on a short piece of 1" OD tubing..
    Do you have any pics of this setup? I am having trouble picturing it.

  8. #33
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    015..jpgIt looks like you had some fun building what you want to ride. Some years ago, I couldn’t afford to buy what I wanted to ride, so I decided to see if I could make it. Over a period of about 7 or 8 years, I made a criterium racing bike, a tandem, a triple, a folding bike and a heavy duty touring/commuting bike. The commuting bike has 26” wheels and was the slowest. These days it has Conti Top Touring 2000 26x1.75” tires and it is the bike I ride the most. While I have made several 2 and 3 week tours, riding and camping, at the moment I am preparing for a cross country ride next summer. I have 3 bikes to choose from: my Hollands tourer, a Salsa Vaya I built this year, and my home built. I am testing them all with loaded bags to see which will be the most suitable. Here is a photo of the homebuilt.

  9. #34
    Senior Member ullearn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClemY View Post
    Here is a photo of the homebuilt.[/SIZE][/FONT]
    Very interesting, looks like a hybrid between a Bike Friday and 700c , I bet you can do some serious climbing with that bike.

  10. #35
    Senior Member sannerbikes700's Avatar
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    Looks like the build is comin along nicely!

  11. #36
    Senior Member ullearn's Avatar
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    Well it took some time to get around to the final pieces, but the bike is cabled and ready to roll. Some fine tuning still needed and have to cut the fork stem, but otherwise all that is left to add the racks (find the final crank), and get to touring.





    More pics at -http://www.flickr.com/photos/work2ride/

  12. #37
    djb
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    that must have been pretty darn neat taking it on its first ride. On the flickr photos, it is fascinating to see the pile of cut tubes and then the bike all together. Bar tape looks like with the black and white.
    Are you going to fender it as well? I imagine with everything on it, it will weigh in the 32-35 lb range?
    How long is the top tube c to c ?

  13. #38
    Senior Member ullearn's Avatar
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    I couldn't decide if I liked the bar tape color or not, but as far as the frame size I used the http://www.tiemeyercycles.com/fit.htm calculator to help come up with mine and then compared to a LHT and made some adjustments for me, as I get neck pinch easily. The Top Tube c to c is 550mm or 55cm, so a smaller cockpit but hopefully will elevate the pinch.

    I have some planet bike fenders for it and will likely mount them, but if they give me too much hassle I am going to ditch them. As for weight, I think it will be a beast, but I will weigh it now and after to see. In one of my other posts you can see where I converted my titanium road bike to a tourer and it jumped from under 20lbs to high 20's, which surprised me at first since I thought it would be super light, but the LHT wheels and especially the Surly racks are beefy.

  14. #39
    Senior Member EKW in DC's Avatar
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    Sharp looking bike, and I love the trekking bar setup you've got. I have trekking bars on my commuterized hybrid and will be swapping them over to my Surly LHT build which I will be doing as soon as my LHT frame is in (working through the final details of the order with the LBS now). I have mine set up at a similar angle to yours and with MTB trigger shifters and V-brakes in the same type of position. Very comfortable setup.

    Me likey.

  15. #40
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    whats the story with the seat post is it possible you made the frame to big.please dont take me up wrong but it just doesn't look right.other than that Class.

  16. #41
    Senior Member ullearn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antokelly View Post
    whats the story with the seat post is it possible you made the frame to big.please dont take me up wrong but it just doesn't look right
    Funny you say that, the buddy who helped me cable it said the same thing.

    The seat is still low as compared to road bikes, meaning I am almost flat footed at the height seen in the picture, so it has about 1-3 inches or so more it can go up in to be like my road bikes. Though this not compact geometry as so many bikes are today and the top tube is level (even LHT has angled Top Tubes), my stand over height to the Top Tube gives me the desired clearance. The conflict I am battling is raising the seat to the right height, to get the most from my pedal stroke, but not raise it so high that I am overly leaning over causing shoulder pinch. Plus with a loaded rig I want to easily put my feet down for stability.

    I am looking to ride a Cadillac cross country , speak of which (insert shameless plug) if any riders are looking for a East to West TransAmerica tour this year starting in April, join me! - www.work2ride.com

  17. #42
    Senior Member ullearn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ullearn View Post
    as far as the frame size I used the http://www.tiemeyercycles.com/fit.htm calculator to help come up with mine and then compared to a LHT and made some adjustments for me, as I get neck pinch easily. The Top Tube c to c is 550mm or 55cm, so a smaller cockpit but hopefully will elevate the pinch.
    This wasn't as true as I thought, I used the Tiemeyer calculator for a couple pieces; Seat Tube Length and angles. The Tiemeyer top tube was to short in my opinion for me and the rest I stole from the LHT measurements because after doing some reading I decided I wanted a few more key features that the LHT is known for.
    1 - Longer Chainstays - "Its low bottom bracket and long chainstays provide comfort and stability, and those long stays increase heel clearance when carrying packed panniers." - LHT site
    2 - Lower Bottom Bracket
    3 - Went halfway on the Top Tube difference between Tiemery and LHT

    Here is how my bike measurements compare -

    56cm LHT / My Bike / Tiemeyer
    Seat Tube Length (Center-Top) 560mm / 566mm / 566mm
    Top Tube Length(Center-Center) 564.4mm / 550mm / 542mm
    Effective Top Tube Length(Center-Center) 570mm / Level / Level
    Head Tube Angle 72.0° / 72.0° / 72.0°
    Seat Tube Angle 73.0° / 73.0° / 73.0°
    BB Drop 78.0mm / 78.0mm / 75.0mm
    Chainstay Length 460.0mm / 445.0mm / 420.0mm

  18. #43
    djb
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    Ul, took a peek at your blog and such, so now I see that you do have a lot of riding experience. As for the seat height, dunno about you, but when I dont get all of my pedal stroke it drives me nuts, plus it hurts my knees--Im not sure what it is but some of my knee muscles really really dont like a seat too low, and the relief is immediate when it is at the proper height. Im not sure if you have ridden a bike "fully loaded", all the stuff you would need to be self supported, but you really want to maximize all the efficiency you can get out of your bike, your body and to keep the weight down as much as possible. I personally prefer spd pedals, again for the efficiency angle, especially when climbing. Im a lightweight, so I take any small bit of help here and there and really notice overloading.

    This bar set up seems to be quite a bit higher than your yellow bike or the Ti one, so I dont see why a proper seat height would be anything but beneficial.

    TT length, I am 5'10" and a bit, and my cross bike that I ride on the road all the time has a toptube of 54.5cm ish, but with drop bars and I really like how this fits me, very comfortable. Especially given the bar setup you have, it was definitely right going with a shorter tt as you can stretch out whenever you want with the treking bars and have diff hand positions/back + neck angles too.

    re the neck pinch you mentioned, makes sense that this thing should be comfy from the start, but you will also get a hell of a lot fitter on a trip of this length, core muscles etc--but only you know what is a good setup for your neck--but imho, dont compromise your seat height, the power efficiency loss is just not worth it.

    ps, dont know if you have a bike trainer, but Id also get your keester going on that B17, I love mine, but you sure as heck want to find out if you like it well before this trip. Glad to see your idea for the crank, def. the way to go.

    cheers

  19. #44
    Senior Member ullearn's Avatar
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    Djb, Thanks for checking out the site.

    Saddle Height
    I haven’t had such an issue with my knees, but at the same time I ride at the appropriate “road” seat height on my other bikes where my legs are almost fully extended and if you did the drop plumb line at the front of the knee lines up over ball of the feet.

    The question I am still asking myself on this tour, and haven’t decided, is do I want to be clipped in our not:

    Pros
    - Full pedal stroke power
    - It’s what I am use to on a bike

    Cons
    - Clipped in a on full load may have complications on a steep grade
    - Is the full pedal stroke really a benefit when you’re carrying 30+lbs of gear?
    - Have to take another pair of walking around shoes

    When I ride a clipped in pedal on my road bike I am usually on my tip-toes when sitting on the saddle and touching the ground. But for loaded touring and not being clipped in I am thinking I want the balls of my feet (in normal shoes) to easily rest on the ground when seated in the saddle.

    Bar Height / Neck Pinch
    I don’t plan to cut the fork steerer until I can put some decent amount of miles into the bike, but considering on my road bikes I put in 40, 60 – 100 miles a ride but only as a weekend warrior I can stand the numbness for a day. Going cross country on the other hand I am going to opt for more wind draft and less aerodynamics or center of gravity for comfort,

    Saddle
    The only reason for not riding right now is I am putting more time into my running (cycling offseason) as there is an upcoming Marathon in February that I may join if my endurance gets up to speed. Though as you said you really have to break in the B17 or all Brooks saddles in that case; I have heard anywhere from 200 – 2000 miles are needed (I am hoping for 200 ), any experience on this? If I can’t get it broken in to my liking I also have an older used B17 that came on a previous bike I owned, maybe I will tighten it up and use it instead or use one of my road seats.

    Bike WeightSomething I have decided not to care about in regards to touring, but I do like to know (for future reference and looking back). I originally took my Ti road sport bike that weighed in at 18.xlbs and transformed it into a touring bike that weighed in at 28.5lbs with racks & fenders (no bags). Before mounting on the racks and fenders this one is weighing in at 27lbs, so I will be curious to see how close they are.
    Last edited by ullearn; 01-17-11 at 02:42 PM.

  20. #45
    djb
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    Ul-have been preoccupied with Life Stuff, so didnt see your last message, will respond when I have time to write properly.

  21. #46
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  22. #47
    Senior Member ullearn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    I like using extra steerer tube length for a second stem, beneath the primary one. given trekking bars .. it is on that lower stem I fit my handlebar bag mount, so it is closer to the steering axis ..and lower ..on My bike, I still have enough room for a fork crown mounted light beneath the HB bag.
    Do you have a picture of this setup?

  23. #48
    djb
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    Quote Originally Posted by ullearn View Post
    Djb, Thanks for checking out the site.

    Saddle Height
    I haven’t had such an issue with my knees, but at the same time I ride at the appropriate “road” seat height on my other bikes where my legs are almost fully extended and if you did the drop plumb line at the front of the knee lines up over ball of the feet.

    The question I am still asking myself on this tour, and haven’t decided, is do I want to be clipped in our not:

    Pros
    - Full pedal stroke power
    - It’s what I am use to on a bike

    **ABSOLUTELY for the pros

    Cons
    - Clipped in a on full load may have complications on a steep grade
    - Is the full pedal stroke really a benefit when you’re carrying 30+lbs of gear?
    - Have to take another pair of walking around shoes

    **Dont worry about being clipped in, load or no, if you are moderately coordinated, its not an issue.
    -full stroke when loaded---heck ya, I find for climbing it is worth a gear higher compared to non clip in pedals.
    -I use spd, walkable, but yes some light sandal thingees are nice to have, important to air out feet after allday riding.

    When I ride a clipped in pedal on my road bike I am usually on my tip-toes when sitting on the saddle and touching the ground. But for loaded touring and not being clipped in I am thinking I want the balls of my feet (in normal shoes) to easily rest on the ground when seated in the saddle.
    **I dont understand your reasoning, touring bike or racing bike, unless youhave a physical issue, you can slid forward off a seat the same on a loaded touring bike--again, if med. coordinated, you can do it on a touring bike too, and well, I guess if you want, try a low seat...but with weight on the bike, you will see how much pedalling efficiency you are losing.

    Bar Height / Neck Pinch
    I don’t plan to cut the fork steerer until I can put some decent amount of miles into the bike, but considering on my road bikes I put in 40, 60 – 100 miles a ride but only as a weekend warrior I can stand the numbness for a day. Going cross country on the other hand I am going to opt for more wind draft and less aerodynamics or center of gravity for comfort,
    **your neck and such are yours, so you only will know how it is foryou, but the more riding yoiu do in prep for a big trip, the more you will either really know what is best, and or a slight thing will improve as you get stronger--but , really, listen to YOUR body, noone else can tell you otherwise.

    Saddle
    The only reason for not riding right now is I am putting more time into my running (cycling offseason) as there is an upcoming Marathon in February that I may join if my endurance gets up to speed. Though as you said you really have to break in the B17 or all Brooks saddles in that case; I have heard anywhere from 200 – 2000 miles are needed (I am hoping for 200 ), any experience on this? If I can’t get it broken in to my liking I also have an older used B17 that came on a previous bike I owned, maybe I will tighten it up and use it instead or use one of my road seats.
    **Im a lightweight, 140lbs, and my B17 took about 120 miles before it was fine. Do a search for my posts to see my experiences. Other than mistakenly setting it up at one point (had it too far back), once I got it figured out position wise, I loved it.
    **do read up on tightening the other one you have, it may not need it really...as well as not going nuts with Proofide, no oil etc...have fun reading posts on Brooks saddles.---but as with all things, maybe another seat is better for you, but do read up on breaking in a Brooks, see my posts , this might help you with what to expect.

    Bike WeightSomething I have decided not to care about in regards to touring, but I do like to know (for future reference and looking back). I originally took my Ti road sport bike that weighed in at 18.xlbs and transformed it into a touring bike that weighed in at 28.5lbs with racks & fenders (no bags). Before mounting on the racks and fenders this one is weighing in at 27lbs, so I will be curious to see how close they are.
    **as for total weight, again, as a light guy, not particularly strong, I really am careful of my packed weight. Makes a big diff for me to shave off 5 lbs or whatever. I learned the hard way, and when I did trips in mtns, I appreciated being very careful with what I packed (but lets face it, its still a lot of crap, even going fairly minimalist.....oh well, you do get strong legs....)

    cheers
    ps, i flubbed up my points, they are within your quoted text--see the ** for my points.
    Last edited by djb; 01-27-11 at 06:45 AM. Reason: ** plus other poor writing

  24. #49
    Senior Member ullearn's Avatar
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    Updates to the bike since last post:
    - Seat raised, yes I do prefer the height it is at now more
    - Put 80 miles on the new brooks and it's feeling better every time I ride it
    - Put the plastic planet bike fenders on but it rubs the front derailleur link, so took it back off, I am not sure I care if I have fenders are not; if I am wet I am wet
    -- My friend recommended I cut a hole in the fender where the derailleur friction is to remove it
    -Front and rear racks installed, wishing the front rack didn't weight so much and so beefy, why did Surly make the front bigger & heavier then the rear?
    - Kickstand installed, going to try it out to see if it stays
    - Added the front and rear lighting but don't think that is the final location of my rear lighting as I plan to use a rear top sack as well

    This weekend doing I am doing my first full gear loaded test on a S24O 140 mile route (70 each way), I will let you know how it goes!



    More pics here - http://www.flickr.com/photos/work2ride

  25. #50
    Senior Member ullearn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    TX
    My Bikes
    Litespeed Sportive, EPX 303, Trek 1420, Schwinn Homegrown, Cannondale MT800, Trek 7.3 FX, Robinson SST, Free Agent Eluder 24
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    I set out my gear - http://work2ride.wordpress.com/about/my-gear/



    And loaded it up, but is it too heavy @ 48lbs? I may start a new thread to ask this.


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