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  1. #1
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    Two leg stand for Long Haul Trucker

    I'm looking for a double kick stand for my LHT. Surly say:

    " So far we have talked only about kickstands that mount by clamping above and below the chainstays where they meet the bottom bracket. Some people prefer rear mounting kickstands which usually clamp around the non-driveside seat- and chainstays. They won't work, sorry. This type do not work on most Long Haul Truckers because of the placement of the spare spoke holder in conjunction with the shape of our proprietary dropout. Older style dropouts, without the Surly logo, may work with those kickstands.

    We recommend the use of two leg kickstands such as the Pletscher. Such a design helps reduce the potential for chainstay flex compared to that which a loaded bike leaning on a kickstand single leg can impose. And because of the extra leg and the placement, they tend to be the most stable in our experience."
    http://surlybikes.com/blog/spew/kick...haul_truckers/
    I found two on Amazon:

    http://www.amazon.com/Double-Kicksta...872624&sr=1-34

    http://www.amazon.com/Pletscher-Two-...f=pd_rhf_p_t_3

  2. #2
    Senior Member neilfein's Avatar
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    I had a similar stand on my Randonee. I pulled it off because the bolt wouldn't stay on, and overtightening it was damaging the frame. Be careful!
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  3. #3
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    Of course, they don't explain why they don't just put a kickstand plate on the bike. Too cool for a kickstand, I guess.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilfein View Post
    I had a similar stand on my Randonee. I pulled it off because the bolt wouldn't stay on, and overtightening it was damaging the frame. Be careful!
    Surly say that they can slip so you can use part of a thin tube and not to over tighten or you will damage the frame as it isn't extra thick there.

  5. #5
    But wait... I AM the man. NoGaBiker's Avatar
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    I've been using a Pletscher double on my 2009 LHT since I built it, and on another touring bike before that. I love it. Nothing bad to say about it at all. I guess the only downside is that when the rear is loaded with more than about eight pounds the front wheel pops off the ground rather than the rear, and that causes the front wheel to turn till the bars hit the top tube. I suppose it could scratch the paint eventually.
    Stick it to the man.

  6. #6
    17yrold in 64yrold body
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    I got one for my touring bike (not LHT), and like it. I am considering the advice of another user (on another thread) about welding some D-shaped plates to the bottom of the legs for added stability. Might help for soft surfaces, too.
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  7. #7
    Crazyguyonabike
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    If I had a Surly Long Haul Trucker again, I would grind off that annoying spoke holder and use my beloved Greenfield Stabilizer rear kickstand. It is the most stable I've used - including the two legged Pletscher. I find the two legged one is not that stable when loading the bike up with panniers, since it stands the bike completely upright - so when you load up one side of the panniers, the bike wants to topple to that side. With the Stabilizer, on the other hand, the bike is naturally leaning a bit on the stand, so you simply load up the side away from the stand first, and this is very stable. Another thing: When you put down the Pletscher, you have to lift up the loaded bike a bit in order to get it on the stand. This is not a huge deal, but it's just that little bit of required effort. The Stabilizer, in contrast, requires no lifting - you just get off the bike and kick the stand down, and that's it. And with the natural lean, you soon learn that the front end wants to tilt either one way or the other and then finds a good neutral position, where the bike is very stable indeed.

    I don't know about the stress on the chainstays - I would hope that my touring bike could deal with that. I have a feeling my Americano can deal with it just fine, looking at those huge chainstays, no problemo. I am going to get Co-Motion to put a custom plate on the chainstay at some point, underneath the disk mount, so that I can use the Stabilizer. Hopefully it'll work back there (don't see any reason why not, and Dwan thinks it'll probably be ok).

    Having said all that, I do like the Pletscher two legged stand for one purpose: As a work stand, particularly when working on the drivetrain and taking the rear wheel off. You can leave the bike standing upright the whole time, no need to lay it down in the dirt and risk getting grit all over your chain. If you're lucky with your BB and cranks, then you can turn the pedals freely even on the stand, and this makes for a much easier cleaning and adjusting experience. So it (the Pletscher) does have its uses - I may even experiment with keeping both on the Americano (yes, I know it's heavy, but it's only another couple of pounds, and on a location on the bike where it won't impact too much, nor will be too noticeable when I need to lose 30 lbs of blubber).

    Oh, and one last thing - you might want to cut the legs down a bit on the Pletscher, because otherwise the amount of lift you get may be quite ungainly (either the front or back will be raised really high off the ground, it's like a see-saw). But be careful - only cut it down a bit at a time, and experiment at each cut with different ground types (e.g. the legs will want to sink in a bit on softer ground, so you'll need the legs to be a little longer to be able to deal with that while still keeping the bike stable, whereas on concrete the legs won't sink at all). You need to find the right compromise. What I ended up doing was cutting and cutting until I went "D'OH!" because they were now too short, so then I had to go out and buy another stand and use the first one as a practice run. Just do it slowly, cutting off very small sections at a time, and you should be ok.

    Neil

  8. #8
    Senior Member johnr783's Avatar
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    I have a Surly LHT and still am able to use a Greenfireld Stabilizer Rear Kickstand on it. I understand what they are trying to say but I have not had any problems with mine. And that is after a fully loaded 5,500 mile tour this past summer.

    I guess ignorance was best for my experience. I didnt research kickstands, I just saw it, thought of the stability it offered a rear load and bought it.

    I specifically didnt buy the double because I was concerned about see-sawing while trying to get stuff out of the bags.
    Please dont jump in now and adamantly defend a double, I like them, I just didnt want it on my LHT.
    Last edited by johnr783; 08-26-10 at 11:37 PM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member KDC1956's Avatar
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    I don't like a kick stand on my LHT

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dscheidt View Post
    Of course, they don't explain why they don't just put a kickstand plate on the bike. Too cool for a kickstand, I guess.
    "Why don’t we just add one of those kickstand mounting plates under the stays? Because those plates introduce more weld heat to an already sensitive area, meaning we'd likely have to go to thicker walled stays, and we're back to the design-intent and ride quality issue. And anyway they're fugly."
    http://surlybikes.com/blog/spew/kick...haul_truckers/

  11. #11
    cyclopath vik's Avatar
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    If you are going to use a ESGE/Pletscher double legged kickstand on a LHT [or similar touring rig] here are some tips:

    - wrap the chainstays in an old inner tube or cloth tape [this will protect the paint and add more friction so the stand doesn't rotate]
    - use loctite on the mounting bolt and don't over tighten as the bolt only holds the stand on...tightening it like crazy doesn't accomplish anything other than damaging your bike
    - if you want to but the special top plate shown below as it will sit over your chainstays more securely [I haven't bothered, but some people like 'em]

    safe riding - Vik
    VikApproved

  12. #12
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    Or have a framebuilder add a kickstand plate to your frame. I had Bilenky add plates to both my tandem and triplet to allow me to easily mount the Pletscher/ESGE twin-legged stand. Absolutely love that stand. Well worth the minimal weight it adds. Easily supports a tandem + touring load and even doubles as a workstand.

  13. #13
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    Vik, where did you get those black plastic things that are on the top of the chainstays?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by briwasson View Post
    Vik, where did you get those black plastic things that are on the top of the chainstays?
    It's part of the deluxe top plate.
    http://www.thorusa.com/dahon/accessories/pletscher.htm

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by benda18 View Post
    "Why don’t we just add one of those kickstand mounting plates under the stays? Because those plates introduce more weld heat to an already sensitive area, meaning we'd likely have to go to thicker walled stays, and we're back to the design-intent and ride quality issue. And anyway they're fugly."
    http://surlybikes.com/blog/spew/kick...haul_truckers/
    Ah, so the reason *is* "we're too cool for kickstands!". Good to know!

  16. #16
    cyclopath vik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dscheidt View Post
    Ah, so the reason *is* "we're too cool for kickstands!". Good to know!
    Surly put a kickstand plate on the Big Dummy and it's useful since you wouldn't be able to mount a single legged kickstand easily on that bike. I've had no issues using a ESGE 2 legged kickstand on the LHT. Owning a few Surly bikes I have not noticed any issues with them "being too cool" to include a useful feature. In fact I would say they go quite the opposite direction and include lots of helpful design elements, but only if they see the need vs. the cons. Just because they don't agree with you on this one issue doesn't justify your comment.

    If the LHT came with a kickstand plate this thread would be about how heavy and expensive the LHT frame was and how if Surly just got rid of stuff like the kickstand plate and spoke holders they could sell the frame cheaper, ect....
    Last edited by vik; 08-27-10 at 09:36 AM.
    safe riding - Vik
    VikApproved

  17. #17
    17yrold in 64yrold body
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    Quote Originally Posted by vik View Post
    Surly put a kickstand plate on the Big Dummy and it's useful since you wouldn't be able to mount a single legged kickstand easily on that bike. I've had no issues using a ESGE 2 legged kickstand on the LHT. Owning a few Surly bikes I have not noticed any issues with them "being too cool" to include a useful feature. In fact I would say they go quite the opposite direction and include lots of helpful design elements, but only if they see the need vs. the cons. Just because they don't agree with you on this one issue doesn't justify your comment.

    If the LHT came with a kickstand plate this thread would be about how heavy and expensive the LHT frame was and how if Surly just got rid of stuff like the kickstand plate and spoke holders they could sell the frame cheaper, ect....
    +1 It is like the old saying "You can please all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can NOT please all of the people all of the time!"

  18. #18
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    Never saw that before. Great! Thanks. Also, they have a good price on the kickstand itself. $10 cheaper than many places.

  19. #19
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    I just bought one. I tried Amazon (ex Niagra Cycles) but they couldn't process my order so I tried

    http://www.thorusa.com/dahon/accessories/pletscher.htm
    and it is on the way.
    Not that I'll be going anywhere ( a fellas got to earn a living).

  20. #20
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    I bought my last few Esge/Pletscher twin-legged stands in Germany, where they retail for around 25 euros. So, given the exchange rate, shipping, import hassles, etc., $40 USD isn't too bad.

  21. #21
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    I've installed it (at last). Without the special top plate, I'm not that happy with it as it's connection with the chainstays is precarious. If I went touring I think I'd take it off (perhaps)?

  22. #22
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    I am content with single legged kickstands.

    On my LHT I have a conventional stand mounted on the chainstays near the bottom bracket, several layers of electrical tape on the stand to protect the frame paint.

    On my other bike I use the Greenfield rear stay mounted stand. I prefer the rear mounting, but the rear stand appears to be more sensitive to sloped ground. if I park my bike so that it can roll forward or if the front wheel can roll to the right, it will roll and fold up the stand.

    When I was a kid, I had a steel two legged kickstand on a utility bike that I used for a newspaper delivery route. I regularly put a lot of weight on that bike and the legs spread and split the stand apart. I have not read about anyone having this problem with the stands that you can buy today, but I would be concerned about splitting the stand apart on some of the designs I have seen.

    Also, if you are using both front and rear panniers (substantial weight front and rear) and a center stand, I am sure that you are putting a lot of stress on the frame when you put the bike on any stand that is designed to hold one wheel up in the air. For this reason, I choose to stay with a single legged stand, as frames are not designed for that type of stress.

  23. #23
    LCI #1853
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    I fiddled around with kickstands for awhile early last year, with little satisfaction, so went with a little different solution: the "Clickstand" (http://www.click-stand.com/) Bought the "Max-5" and have had no problems with it whether the bike is in unloaded, commuting, or touring mode. And since the stand is pretty much measured to your bike size, it's easy to swap it to whatever bike you're riding at the time.

    And while I realize it's silly to be obsessive about weight with a Trucker, it is a whole lot lighter than a regular kickstand ;-)

  24. #24
    But wait... I AM the man. NoGaBiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
    Also, if you are using both front and rear panniers (substantial weight front and rear) and a center stand, I am sure that you are putting a lot of stress on the frame when you put the bike on any stand that is designed to hold one wheel up in the air. For this reason, I choose to stay with a single legged stand, as frames are not designed for that type of stress.
    Do you really think the frame can hold your own lard ass (or mine) plus panniers, but would fall apart if it just has to hold the panniers with a wheel up in the air?
    Stick it to the man.

  25. #25
    Randomhead
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoGaBiker View Post
    Do you really think the frame can hold your own lard ass (or mine) plus panniers, but would fall apart if it just has to hold the panniers with a wheel up in the air?
    it's a point load on a part of the bike that wasn't constructed with that in mind. I'm not sure I disagree with Surley; a kickstand plate is like a gusset, which are famous for causing tube failures. So heavier chain stays may be in order

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