Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Touring Have a dream to ride a bike across your state, across the country, or around the world? Self-contained or fully supported? Trade ideas, adventures, and more in our bicycle touring forum.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-01-10, 02:18 AM   #1
irpheus
Explorer
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Where to buy light-wgt breathable & waterproof environmentally friendly fabric?

Hi tourers,

A quick question: Any of you know where to buy a light-weight breathable & waterproof environmentally friendly fabric - available for private purchase? To be used for custom sacks for biking....

Greetings,

Jesper
irpheus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-10, 06:10 AM   #2
Bacciagalupe
Professional Fuss-Budget
 
Bacciagalupe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 6,438
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If you were talking clothing, I'd suggest wool, which covers 3 out of 4. I don't think any water-resistant fabric qualifies as "environmentally friendly," those fabrics are synthetics that receive a variety of chemical treatments.

Not sure what you mean by "sacks" though.
Bacciagalupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-10, 06:21 AM   #3
Juha
Formerly Known as Newbie
 
Juha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Bikes:
Posts: 6,263
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
There is cotton duck, such as what Carradice use for their bags, and it can be re-proofed with wax. Cotton in itself isn't particularly environmentally friendly, but as Bacciagalup pointed out, neither is most of the competition.

Jesper, what kind of environmentally friendliness are you looking for? An Ortlieb PVC bag can be argued to be environmentally friendly in the sense that it's very durable and doesn't need to be replaced every 5 years or so.

--J
__________________
To err is human. To moo is bovine.

Who is this General Failure anyway, and why is he reading my drive?


Become a Registered Member in Bike Forums
Community guidelines
Juha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-10, 06:45 AM   #4
Aquakitty
Canadian Chick
 
Aquakitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: BC, Canada
Bikes: Lots
Posts: 641
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
www.rockywoods.com or www.seattlefabrics.com
Aquakitty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-10, 06:46 AM   #5
skijor 
on by
 
skijor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Bikes: Waterford RS-33, Salsa Vaya, Bacchetta Giro 20 ATT
Posts: 920
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
I don't know if they sell fabric, but Patagonia's products are less-damaging than similar products of competitors like LL Bean, Lands End, etc. For example, some of their fleece apparel is made using recycled plastic bottles. Here's some info on the fabrics that go into their products.
skijor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-10, 07:05 AM   #6
SBRDude
Godfather of Soul
 
SBRDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Bikes: 2002 Litespeed Vortex, 2010 Specialized Tricross Expert,2008 Gary Fischer Hi Fi Carbon, 2002 Specialized S-Works hard tail, 1990 Kestrel KM 40
Posts: 1,517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Your skin meets those conditions. Just make sure you ride in warm rain.
SBRDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-10, 10:23 AM   #7
TurbineBlade
Kid A
 
TurbineBlade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Alexandria, VA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,778
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You want waterproof and breathable sacks??

If you want waterproof bags for touring, Ortlieb and a lot of other companies make them. I just use a non-waterproof cheap set of panniers and put certain items in zip-locks for water proofing -- works fine.

IMO and IME - most things that advertise "waterproof and breathable" are full of ****. I work on a boat in all weather conditions and get rained on weekly..sometimes multiple days. I have many goretex, dry-tech, etc. jackets, pants, boots, hats, etc. and while many of them are fairly water proof (water resistant is more apt, since rain finds it's way in when you're moving..I don't care what you do) NONE of them breathe worth a darn if you're getting your heart rate up.

I don't care what the package says, or what some random person who probably doesn't work outside tells you at the store. None of that crap breathes. Actually, several of my goretex pants and jackets are great on windy days on the water....because they don't breathe and block the wind!

Last edited by unterhausen; 09-01-10 at 09:46 PM. Reason: please don't work around the censor
TurbineBlade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-10, 10:54 AM   #8
John Nelson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 537
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
As a compromise, some people prefer "water resistant" rather than "water proof" because they usually breathe better.
John Nelson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-10, 11:26 AM   #9
Erick L
Lentement mais sûrement
 
Erick L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Montréal
Bikes:
Posts: 2,146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
There's no such thing as a waterproof & breathable bag. The idea behind W&B jackets is that sweat (vapor) can get out but water can't get in. Equipment doesn't sweat so such fabric in a bag doesn't work.
Erick L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-10, 01:54 PM   #10
irpheus
Explorer
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hi everyone & thanks for replying.

I'll be using the fabric for small bags for electronics & clothes & possibly to make a duvet. All is to be transported in wet & humid weather and I'll need them to stay dry and make them custom sized.

Ortlieb makes some very light dry- bags, see e.g. http://ortlieb.de/index_white.php?la...e=p-search.php , however, I'm not sure they're breathable (to the extent possible) or environmentally friendly.

I am aware of Patagonia but haven't seen their fabrics sold on their own ...

@SBRDude: Hmmm... Global warming comes into my mind ;-)

So, if one of you know of a retail outlet where I can buy such fabric (e.g. recycled) I'd appreciate a hint.

Best regards,

Jesper
irpheus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-10, 02:22 PM   #11
Aquakitty
Canadian Chick
 
Aquakitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: BC, Canada
Bikes: Lots
Posts: 641
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by irpheus View Post
Hi everyone & thanks for replying.

I'll be using the fabric for small bags for electronics & clothes & possibly to make a duvet. All is to be transported in wet & humid weather and I'll need them to stay dry and make them custom sized.

Ortlieb makes some very light dry- bags, see e.g. http://ortlieb.de/index_white.php?la...e=p-search.php , however, I'm not sure they're breathable (to the extent possible) or environmentally friendly.

I am aware of Patagonia but haven't seen their fabrics sold on their own ...

@SBRDude: Hmmm... Global warming comes into my mind ;-)

So, if one of you know of a retail outlet where I can buy such fabric (e.g. recycled) I'd appreciate a hint.

Best regards,

Jesper


You aren't making any sense, if you are making bags for electronics you want them 100% waterproof, why would you need anything "breathable" for dry sacks?

Also I linked you 2 sources for materials...
Aquakitty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-10, 02:26 PM   #12
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 19,730
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 466 Post(s)
check : http://seattlefabrics.com/
recycled is ends of rolls at manufacturers of stuff ,
as the outsourcing of labor intensive sewn stuff has gone to Asia that is a problem

look for used gear to cut up for their materials

Truck tarp can be gotten , but you need an industrial sewing machine to assemble it into stuff..
fietsbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-10, 02:29 PM   #13
SBRDude
Godfather of Soul
 
SBRDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Bikes: 2002 Litespeed Vortex, 2010 Specialized Tricross Expert,2008 Gary Fischer Hi Fi Carbon, 2002 Specialized S-Works hard tail, 1990 Kestrel KM 40
Posts: 1,517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by irpheus View Post
So, if one of you know of a retail outlet where I can buy such fabric (e.g. recycled) I'd appreciate a hint.
You might try thrift stores to buy used clothing for the material. You might also do some research/googling about how material is recycled, who does it, and where to get it. It might be a wholesale only thing, but ya never know.
SBRDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-10, 08:31 PM   #14
NoReg
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
"I don't care what the package says, or what some random person who probably doesn't work outside tells you at the store. None of that crap breathes. Actually, several of my goretex pants and jackets are great on windy days on the water....because they don't breathe and block the wind!"

They block the wind and do breathe. But whether you feel any better is another mater. It is the art of the possible. Outdoor environments are highly variable. You mention working in extremely wet conditions. Many people observe that when it rains, let's say it is hot inside or out, and you now have to wear a jacket, big increase in how warm you feel. The combined greater warmth, the fact the jacket is covered in water, the fact every opening has been cinched tight to keep water out, may mean you fell no better than you would in a rainproof. That is the basic case Patagonia made for not going Goretex.

Or say you are in the arctic, or at altitude. It is cold, and you need max protection, You are wearing a vapour barrier. Not much good in the goretex there. There are lots of other micro climates. But properly made goretex does have a wider comfort range. It also raised the price of of upper end rainwear to the extent that you pay pretty high prices for stuff that doesn't have a hope of being breathable in any condition also. The only downside to goretex was when it was breathing and leaking. I have mostly the really old 3 laminate stuff, and it serves pretty well with relentless seam sealing, they say the new stuff is "fixed". Couldn't say myself.

Having lived in places like Ireland where you either played in the rain, or not so much. I have the neoprene wear, Barbour waxproof, goretex, etc... It all has some niche, but nothing is perfect for every climate.
NoReg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-10, 11:45 PM   #15
benajah
One legged rider
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Moraga, CA
Bikes: Kuota Kharma, Surly LHT, CAAD9, Bianchi fg/ss
Posts: 1,390
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Im sorry to say, but I work for an oil company, and am involved with the fabrics division and the sustainable energy division (nylon, polyester, it is all made directly from oil) with the exception of lanolin coated wool, there is no such thing as "environmentally friendly breathable waterproof fabric". That is pretty much the situation that lead to the invention of GoreTex. Wax coated cotton does not breathe, and neither does rubber, and those are pretty much the limit of waterproof fabric prior to the invention of nylon.
There is one exception though, pure silk, but my guess is that it is going to be out of your price range, and is not durable enough for bags.
benajah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-10, 11:48 PM   #16
benajah
One legged rider
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Moraga, CA
Bikes: Kuota Kharma, Surly LHT, CAAD9, Bianchi fg/ss
Posts: 1,390
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
and from reading the OP's post, I am assuming he means making panniers out of something that comes from a plant or an animal, not an oil well or a laboratory.
Wait!!! seriously, you could go for leather! I am serious. Lightweight leather with a light coating of wax is fantastically water resistant. Lasts pretty much forever, and is, all things considered, extremely environmentaly friendly...no cow was ever killed for its skin, its just using a byproduct to the fullest advantage.
benajah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-10, 06:22 AM   #17
Juha
Formerly Known as Newbie
 
Juha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Bikes:
Posts: 6,263
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick L View Post
The idea behind W&B jackets is that sweat (vapor) can get out but water can't get in. Equipment doesn't sweat so such fabric in a bag doesn't work.
The one big drawback for a completely waterproof pannier (think Ortlieb) is, you put a wet towel in there and not only does it stay wet, everything else in the pannier will be moist as well after a few hours. If it's warm, you will have stuff growing on your clothes in no time. A waterproof and breathable pannier would be great, but I doubt it would be breathable enough.

To Jesper, my other hobby is sea kayaking, and none of the really light drybags stay dry for long in that use. They wear right through the fabric in no time. Your intended use, they just might work there. But they tolerate very little abrasive wear. FWIW, I haven't seen a breathable drybag.

--J
__________________
To err is human. To moo is bovine.

Who is this General Failure anyway, and why is he reading my drive?


Become a Registered Member in Bike Forums
Community guidelines
Juha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-10, 07:52 AM   #18
John Nelson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 537
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juha View Post
The one big drawback for a completely waterproof pannier (think Ortlieb) is, you put a wet towel in there and not only does it stay wet, everything else in the pannier will be moist as well after a few hours. If it's warm, you will have stuff growing on your clothes in no time. A waterproof and breathable pannier would be great, but I doubt it would be breathable enough.
This problem is fairly easily avoidable by not putting the wet towel in the pannier in the first place. I strap my wet stuff to the outside. I can see why people want a breathable jacket, but I'm not so sold on the need for a breathable pannier.
John Nelson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-10, 07:57 AM   #19
Bekologist
totally louche
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Posts: 18,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
a lot of hospitals use goretex sheets in pathology.

Patagonia was slow to jump on the bandwagon of waterproof breathable fabrics. Early Winters did some of the first clothing with Gore-Tex, and their tents of course.

I forget what Patagonia's Waterproof fabric was called, was it H2NO? their classic Anorak back in the early 90's epitomized the chimney venting and the dirtbag heritage behind NOT embracing waterproof/breathable clothing.

environmentally friendly coated fabrics? goodness....


Look into procuring fabrics from the Schoeller group of Switzerland. Bluesign approved production of highly technical fabrics.

And I need to edit to add, I hope everyone knows about the rich heritage of VENTILE cotton?

Cotton clothing went to the poles first. Organic ventile cotton, hmm..........

Last edited by Bekologist; 09-02-10 at 09:20 AM.
Bekologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-10, 10:19 AM   #20
SBRDude
Godfather of Soul
 
SBRDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Bikes: 2002 Litespeed Vortex, 2010 Specialized Tricross Expert,2008 Gary Fischer Hi Fi Carbon, 2002 Specialized S-Works hard tail, 1990 Kestrel KM 40
Posts: 1,517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
And I need to edit to add, I hope everyone knows about the rich heritage of VENTILE cotton?

Cotton clothing went to the poles first. Organic ventile cotton, hmm..........
Has it been back lately? Not trying to diss cotten, but there were fewer choices back then, just like people used to use covered wagons instead of cars.
SBRDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-10, 03:46 PM   #21
wahoonc
Senior Member
 
wahoonc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On the road-USA
Bikes: Giant Excursion, Raleigh Sports, Raleigh R.S.W. Compact, Motobecane? and about 20 more! OMG
Posts: 16,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBRDude View Post
Has it been back lately? Not trying to diss cotten, but there were fewer choices back then, just like people used to use covered wagons instead of cars.
I use cotton or wool. Waxed cotton works great for panniers and outer clothing. Merino wool for clothing, occasionally with Tin Cloth cotton outerwear.

I am not a total Luddite, I do own a set of PVC Ortlieb waterproof panniers.

Aaron
__________________
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"
_Nicodemus

"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"
_krazygluon
wahoonc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-10, 08:15 PM   #22
Bekologist
totally louche
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Posts: 18,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBRDude View Post
Has it been back lately? Not trying to diss cotten, but there were fewer choices back then, just like people used to use covered wagons instead of cars.
Ventile cotton never left! Not as common in the US, but Wiggy's uses it for some of their gear.

as to historical references, I can't find the name for tight woven long staple cotton, 'waterproof' and breathable gear used in Shackeltons' era, Ventile is a WWII era trademark.

Ventile cotton is still in use in flight suits, and the Norwegian military has used a high tech cotton blend in arctic outerwear.
Bekologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-10, 08:26 PM   #23
NoReg
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I remember years ago, my Mother kindly raided my outdoor fabric collection to make me a pack to carry all my toiletries in. She made it of Goretex, which made me kinda mad because without a heat source it was going to be just like any waterproof fabric. Cost about 35 dollars a yard at the time. Still have it, within a short period lots of outdoor companies where making the same thing for cheap.
NoReg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-10, 09:05 PM   #24
Bekologist
totally louche
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Posts: 18,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A little info on Ventile cotton here and where to purchase. as close to the ideal lightweight, breathable and waterproof cloth around that's environmentally friendly.

Schoeller wouldn't be a bad high tech choice if a laminate is preferred.
Bekologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-10, 02:27 AM   #25
Juha
Formerly Known as Newbie
 
Juha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Bikes:
Posts: 6,263
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Nelson View Post
This problem is fairly easily avoidable by not putting the wet towel in the pannier in the first place. I strap my wet stuff to the outside.
If the weather is good enough for that, I just put the towel on top and leave the pannier loosely open. But if I'm camping and get a couple of days of constant rain, there will be too many wet/moist items to strap on the outside.

Ability to ventilate the pannier, one way or the other, is good. Like I said, I'm not sure breathable fabric is the best way to arrange that.

--J
__________________
To err is human. To moo is bovine.

Who is this General Failure anyway, and why is he reading my drive?


Become a Registered Member in Bike Forums
Community guidelines
Juha is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:22 PM.