Caretaker

When buying a tent, cooking stoves etc. what is the priority? Getting something suitable for purpose or 'the best', 'the lightest' which usually means the most expensive.

If like me you work full time and can only tour a couple of weeks in the year what is the point of spending money on a Hilleberg tent or the latest GPS when a perfectly adaquate tent can be bought for a third of the price and a map can be bought for a few €/$/£.

Yes I could understand going for the expensive option if you were setting off on a year long tour where you would probably get a return for your money but if you aren't wouldn't it be better to save the money and spend it on extra time on the road.

What is your priority? Maybe you're one of the lucky few who doesn't have to worry about money.

cyclist2000

I am in the same boat as you, I have a full time job and tour 1-2 weeks per year. My priority is quality, I try to buy things that are well make and will last a long time and have a good warranty. I make of list of items that I like and keep an eye out for sales of those items.

psmiffy

It is a balance – I buy things on the basis of what I want them to do – function first, weight second and volume and price somewhere in between – I have ended up with things that do what I want and are relatively durable – most of my kit is over 5 years and have been used two or three hundred times – value for money

wahoonc

I buy things based on a series of valuations. To me one of the biggest is durability. Quite often that is not the cheapest nor the lightest. I also keep a list of items that I potentially want to purchase and watch for them to go on sale when they are being superseded by the newest item, or end of year sales, or inventory sales or whatever. Much of my equipment is not brand new state of the art, but it gets used 2-3 times a year and will be in use for a long time to come.

Probably one of my best purchases of all times was a Eureka Timberline tent back in the 1980, it cost me almost a full week's wages at the time, that tent is still around and still gets some use. I used it every weekend for over 10 years. Based on that I have purchased a couple of others along the way.

I am a bit of a Luddite and don't necessarily have to have the latest and the greatest.

Aaron

fietsbob

buying stuff and carrying it versus just booking a B&B for the nights out?

Eire has a bunch of indy hostels , I enjoyed staying there to wait out storms
even while camping in between.

safariofthemind

There seem to be 2 schools in regards to this. The first wants to see how cheap they can go and still get the job done. An extreme example are the people making their panniers from square plastic buckets and milk crates. The other school is mostly made up of people who see touring as part of their lifestyle, assign a per cent of their income to it, and try to do the best with their budget. I fall in the second group. Of course, even within this latter group, your income ends up deciding a lot, but that may explain why you see so many out of the ordinary rigs out there. Their justification was not on economic grounds only.

No one really "needs" a justification to do what they enjoy. I suspect many of us treat cycling the way we use our heart and head to buy a house, a car, golf clubs or any other purchase.

Caretaker

My impression is that some newbie tourers read journals by cyclists doing Mongolia, China and Southeast Asia and think copying the equipment is the way to go for their own 14 day tour in France. By the time they have equipped themselves with the Rohoff hub the GPS and the Hilleberg tent they haven't got enough money left for the trip.

For others it's ALL about the equipment and end up like the sailor with the trophy yacht who never leaves the dock.

Touring is simple and needs simple basic equipment that shouldn't cost an arm and a leg.

safariofthemind

There's all kinds out there. The gear junkies are certainly one section. So are the minimalists and on and on. Always, one has to see how much to apportion for kit versus travel expenses. It's a constant balancing act. Same with all other "hobbies" - just think of how many people have titanium golf clubs but can't afford the airfare to and fees at their dream golf course

Caretaker

Éire!!! You only see it called that on postage stamps and official documents.

Maybe I should change my sig. to Dublin, Éire but I suspect lots would think I lived on a lake on the US/Canada border.

Yeah, indy hostels are a good option when touring here and great for meeting people.

valygrl

I select gear on the basis of functionality, weight (relative to other items with similar functionality) and price, with functionality and weight about even in importance, and price less important. If two things appear to be equally functional, weight decides unless price is very different, then price decides.

I usually have an idea of the functionality I require, and I try really hard not to buy stuff that doesn't meet the requirements, even if it's really light and/or cheap, because that's how I end up having to buy it again. Stuff that doesn't work the way I want on tour really pisses me off - you are paring your stuff down so much, it all just has to work. On the other hand, I've replaced highly functional and expensive gear that was just outrageously heavy.

If it doesn't perform its function to my satisfaction, it doesn't matter how light or cheap it is, it's not coming along. If it's so heavy its a burden to haul along, it doesn't matter how cheap it is.

Machka 

Here's how I approached the business of acquiring touring gear ...

I've been camping and travelling for years, so I was able to select items I had collected over the years which I figured might work for cycletouring ... smaller items, like my 5-in-1 utensil set, for example.

I started shopping ... visiting all sorts of different shops from the local Army surplus (where I found my sleeping bags for a good price), to MEC (where I picked up some clothing and lights), to the local Dollar stores (where I got waterproof bags for $1), to Canadian Tire (where I got a bunch of little bits and pieces). I picked up a really cheap little tent from Walmart for a hub-and-spoke tour ... I think it was something like $20 ... and it was fine for that. I hunted and searched for panniers and was coming to the conclusion that I would not be able to get what I had in mind when I went to the LBS where I bought my bicycle, and saw the Axiom Lasalles. They were perfect, and the shop gave me a discount on them so they ended up being cheaper than the compromises I was looking at.

And then I experimented and upgraded as necessary. I did a 1-week tour with no mattress, and determined that I needed something. I did a 3-month tour using a cut-down foam piece as a mattress, and determined that I needed something more. I now have a Thermarest which I'm happy with.


BTW - as far as tents go, Rowan and I flew to Europe without a tent in 2007 and bought one at a Decathlon in France for a reasonable price. We had looked at them online before we did this so we had an idea what we were looking at. We toured for a month with that tent then, and then again for about a week in 2008, and we've done one 5-day hub-and-spoke tour with that tent again at Easter this year. Despite the fact that it was not particularly expensive, that tent has served us well, and it is still in good condition. So no, if you have a limited budget, you don't need to go with the most expensive things out there, you can tour quite comfortably with something less expensive, especially if your intent is to only use it a few times a year.

But the more you get out there and experiment on weekend tours, week-long tours, etc., the better idea you'll have what you want.

DW99

The gear I have for cycling and touring is what I perceived to be adequate for my needs. Not the cheapest or the lightest or the most desirable by others, just what I need, that will last. Not prone to quick decisions on equipment I usually do considerable research when making a purchase, part of the research takes into account weight, cost, and durability. Then look for the best deal I can find. It makes no sense to me to buy the very best when there are more reasonable choices for my available funds. I buy it, use it and take care of it so it will last. On the other hand, occasionally on lower cost items, the impulse wins out.

drmweaver2

I am a middle grounder, I guess, mostly based off experiences in the military with their 1970's/1980's equipment and having completed walking the Appalachian Trail on a pretty limited budget. While in the military, I hike&bike-camped (wouldn't call it long distance touring) with old canvas pup tents and Sears-bought/old-style Coleman equipment. Heavy but with max-durability. Result - it worked and I had big thighs.

'Round about the late-80's/early 90's, I began using more modern equipment found at yard sales, 2nd-hand stores, Boy Scout Tropp equipment replacement sales, etc. Never spent more than $40 for a tent until 2000. Since then, haven't ever spent more than $150 on any single piece of equipment and that was a tent. Result - newer technology meant lighter weights per item and smaller thighs.

My brother takes this "to an extreme"; he buys Walmart stuff and takes care of it until it breaks/wears then he replaces it (he has big thighs). Together, we view it sort of like the results of a hard-side vs soft-side luggage study we read 15-20 years ago. Pay a lot up front or pay a little a bit more frequently over time - the results are the same in terms of total cost for luggage over 10 years if traveling by air (airline luggage handlers and handling equipment WILL abuse your luggage and you will eventually need to replace it).

I'd rather pay a little bit more frequently and get incremental upgrades over time as costs and materials evolve. I definitely don't need the latest and greatest - though I would not turn them down if offered for free/really cheaply.

Carbonfiberboy 

Cost benefit analysis is one of those modern sophistries that I find funny. What is cost? What is the value of a cost? What is benefit? What is the value of a particular benefit? It's nonsense. There are so many hidden costs as well as hidden benefits. The mind boggles.

Many years ago my wife asked me, "What do you remember best about last year?" It was our backpacking trip and all the fun we had together. So we purchase things not on the basis of days of use, but rather years of use. Years of getting the benefit of happy memories. There's no way to quantify or assign a cost/benefit to happy memories.

We've always bought the best thing we could find for the purpose and then used it until it was used up. For instance, we bought a Crestline Expedition tent back in '73 and used it until the floor was worn out. Cheaper to buy new than to replace a tub floor. So we bought a roomier, modern tent of the same weight in about 2000. We've had to recoat the floor, but otherwise it's still good. However, we bought a second tent this year, an Agnes SL3, because the Tiros Guide was over our weight budget for our bike trip. The lighter tent and pads saved us the cost of a front rack and panniers, too, so there's that. And we also went lighter because I've blown out my back from decades of heavy work and carrying 65 lb. loads backpacking, and from just age. So if we're going to bike tour and backpack, we have to go lighter or not go. I'm hoping we'll get a decade of use out of the BA tent before we can't backpack or bike tour anymore. That's 10 years of invaluable memories.

OTOH, there's the stove and cook kit I bought at Sporthaus Schuster back in '67. It was the best then and it might still be the best, so it's what we use. So far, we haven't found anything that's either noticeably lighter or better. Over a thousand meals prepared with that kit, and every one deserves its own memory space. How do you quantify that?

BTW, we have lived for decades below the poverty line. It just depends on what you value. My favorite saying for the past few weeks is that everything in life depends on choices. You often may not understand or foresee what the end result of your choice will be, but that doesn't alter the truth of the saying. Be careful out there.

safariofthemind

In R&D we often used this methodology for deciding which projects got funded further and which ones got terminated. It's a fact of life we could no fund everything. Makes sense in business, but with "affairs of the heart" like hobbies, it usually gets thrown out the window

arctos

Quality and durability come first ahead of price concerns for me.

I have paid for all of my touring equipment, trip costs and bikes from bike commuting savings over four decades. i am still using a Trangia stove kit purchased in the mid -1960's and a down jacket from the late 1960's- both quality items that cost nothing when amortized over those decades.

My newest bike is over twenty years old. It was relatively expensive at that time but still performs better than most current models that I have tried. I won't bore you with the rest of the list.

My grandfather always said buy the best made item for the task, take care of it and it will take care of you and be cheaper in the long run. He was correct in my experience.

Carbonfiberboy 

My little jape also applies to the business world. What is the true cost of fossil fuel? Why would it require an estimated 3 GNPs to clean up the waste from a technology that was supposed to supply power that was "too cheap to meter?" What is the benefit of a pension plan? Etc. Our market economy has a strong tendency to attempt to put a dollar figure on the imponderables, and to push costs off onto others.

Perhaps we see that a little more clearly in our hobbies; that which does not need to generate income. Now we pack out all our trash, but we didn't always. Now we have Superfund sites, but we didn't always.

NoReg

There are two questions here:

1) What is the best way to buy gear

2) If the best way conflicts with the objective of getting out and using it, what then

On the first, I think there was a time when there was bad gear, good gear, and great gear. Like comparing an Optimist stove to an MSR. Right now there is a lot of gear that is really good, way better than what we used to have. Very little of it is bad gear. My Shimano LX deraileur is about the same price and way better, than my Campi Neuvo Record Raly from the 70, and a lot cheaper. The Raly was alike 55 bucks back then, when a car was 3K. You have to go to walmart to get gear with less probable longevity, and it could be OK even at that. This is a world of 650 brakes, and lights. While 15 dollar brakes and lights are fully trans-am ready. It is also a world of ebay where one can both sell and buy stuff in a way that was not possible back a while.

I used to sell the aforementioned Timberline tent, around 1980. It was a solid cheap choice. I think we sold it for around 185, or 225 Canadian. The North Face VE24 was 595-795 at the time. Today MEC sells a 3 season dome for 115, thanks to china. It comes taped. Might very well be good enough.

So back a while one had to buy expensive gear, to get pro grade stuff, these days there is lots of pro grade stuff that is very cheap. I mean I think you could lead bike tours with LX. There was a time when the only sleeping bag was down, and quality down was expensive. Today we have synthetics. Synthetics may not have certain qualities of down, but they are not lower quality, a case could be made that they are higher quality.

When I lived in Dublin in 74, a shop assistant made 10 pounds a week. A teacher made 3K a year. We were buying gear from the US where a small addition to the kit could take weeks to save up for, But today purchasing power is so much higher. So in short I think there is little excuse not to get some good stuff, and it is still worth saving up, for a morning today, to get that next piece of gear. But there are crazy extravagant options that are not necessary, and there are areas where downright cheap stuff is fine, and there are areas where home made gear can work fine while you are waiting for something better.


On the second question, I don't think you should ever not go on a trip because you don't have the perfect gear. I would prefer to make do and wait than to buy a bunch of junk that won't deliver any better than your make do list. One can use a piece of plastic as a tarp, or some blue tarp. I would rather that for a while, than to spend on a tent that isn't quality materials. I would rather get a 30 dollar bike and ride that, that buy an 800 dollar bike I would later need to replace.

Bekologist

just do it!

get the kit, upgrade as you see fit.


Life, for most of us lucky enough to live in the industrialized world, is full of adventure and consumer goods. don't forget to enjoy both!

chrisch

I find tents one of the easiest things to justify spending money on. Here's my formula: Take the price of the tent and divide it by the typical hotel rate for one night. That gives you the approximate number of nights you need to sleep in the tent before it pays for itself. Given the cost of hotel rooms it's easy for me to justify spending a little more for a good tent. Of course, it's not that simple since you also need a sleeping bag and mat, but you get the idea. The same thinking can also apply to cooking gear versus a typical restaurant meal.

Machka 

Some newbie tourers read those journals and figure that they have to be completely self supported as they cross Europe, the US, Canada or parts of Australia too ... to the point where they want to mail food and supplies ahead to destinations along the way, or figure they'll need to live off big bags of rice and oatmeal which they will need to carry in their front panniers.

The thing is, if you're touring a fairly populated area in your country or a country similar to yours (or series of countries like Europe), you can get away with bringing less because chances are ....... you'll find a pharmacy or chemist where you can get your basic medical needs attended (i.e. hay fever medication, painkillers, and butt creams); you'll find grocery stores and cafes and restaurants to provide you with a variety of food; you'll find all sorts of options for sleeping including hotels, motels, hostels, and campgrounds so if you hit a rainy patch, you can likely find a place to sleep indoors and you don't have to depend on your little tent day in and day out ... and you'll even find alternate travel options (busses, trains, rental cars, etc.) if it all gets too much for a while.

You'll also come across numerous camping/sporting goods/hardware stores along the way, so if the helmet light you chose isn't working well for you, you might be able to find another along the way. If the mattress you chose turns out to be useless, chances are you can find something that works better. There's nothing wrong with shopping on the tour.

JohnyW

Hi,

my opinion is for newbies: Buy cheap in the beginning, cause if you are a student the whole stuff costs a lot of money. If you like it then you can replace your equipment step by step. After a few trips you know what you require. For some it's wheight, for other durability, for others a good price for medium quality. Another thing is: After a few trips may be your priority changed - Eg. form bike tours in Europe to worldwide cycle trips

Thomas

Cyclist0383

+1

I'm too poor to buy cheap things that will need to be replaced in short order. I simply wait for sales or save up if something doesn't often go on sale.

MichaelW

I must have a bizzare cost benefit algorithm when it comes to tents. For my 2-week Euro-jaunts to Spain and France I used the cheapest small tent on the market. It worked perfectly well and paid its way after one night.
For an 8 week tour up to Norway I used one of the most expensive, the Hilleberg. It had to survive some pretty fierce storms.
I think durability comes pretty high on my list. My panniers have seen 15 years of daily use and I think I got my money's worth from Carradice.

The most difficult piece of kit to buy was a sleeping bag. The warmth rating system is not much help unless you already have a rated bag.

Juha

Seconded. Also, choice of camping gear greatly depends on climate and other conditions. A lousy tent may mean an uncomfortable night and not getting enough sleep. Which sucks in itself. But in more demanding conditions a lousy tent can be a health risk. I use my tent in varying conditions, but pretty much never in winter. That means I'll never buy a supermarket single wall wonder, but so far there has been no need for a Hilleberg either.

Durability often means NOT buying the latest, lightest or bling-blingest stuff.

--J