Salsa Fans: Any Advantage to Vaya Ti?
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Salsa Fans: Any Advantage to Vaya Ti?
Looking at off-road touring alternatives I came across this interesting frame.
https://salsacycles.com/bikes/vaya_ti/
Wondering what if any are the advantages of a titanium frame in off road tourers? Doing a search on google yielded:
On the pro side:
1. rust resistance which extends life of frame
2. seemingly indefinite resistance to flexing stresses
3. light weight
On the con side:
1. cracks at welds due to inexperienced welders
2. sometimes bikes flex too much because material is too thin to save $$ in tubing cost
3. hardware used has to be carefully managed to avoid seizing of parts
Any actual use reports would be greatly appreciated. I already have 3 older steel mtb frames (a 93 Jamis diablo and a 98 Raleigh mtb, soon an 89 Ritchey Ultra) kept more for collectable and fun purposes. This bike would be more for cross country short tours under 1 week. Mostly dirt roads and occasional use in the rainforest in Panama where I work. No extreme riding, bunny hopping or big drops planned for this bike.
The main attraction to get this bike would be getting disk brakes which are very useful in places like Panama where deep mud is everywhere. As a reference point, I already own a rim-braked Surly Cross Check and love it.
https://salsacycles.com/bikes/vaya_ti/
Wondering what if any are the advantages of a titanium frame in off road tourers? Doing a search on google yielded:
On the pro side:
1. rust resistance which extends life of frame
2. seemingly indefinite resistance to flexing stresses
3. light weight
On the con side:
1. cracks at welds due to inexperienced welders
2. sometimes bikes flex too much because material is too thin to save $$ in tubing cost
3. hardware used has to be carefully managed to avoid seizing of parts
Any actual use reports would be greatly appreciated. I already have 3 older steel mtb frames (a 93 Jamis diablo and a 98 Raleigh mtb, soon an 89 Ritchey Ultra) kept more for collectable and fun purposes. This bike would be more for cross country short tours under 1 week. Mostly dirt roads and occasional use in the rainforest in Panama where I work. No extreme riding, bunny hopping or big drops planned for this bike.
The main attraction to get this bike would be getting disk brakes which are very useful in places like Panama where deep mud is everywhere. As a reference point, I already own a rim-braked Surly Cross Check and love it.
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Looks like a great frame.
I have a Lynskey Ti road bike and a Soma Double Cross DC (disc-brakes). This frame combines the best features of both. I find the steel-framed Soma has a little too much flex at the BB. This makes climbing less efficient. The Lynskey has just the right amount of flex and climbing is easier. The bike is faster and less tiring during a long hilly ride. I also like the paint-free titanium and I never worry about scratches or rust.
I would not worry about flex or bad welds. This Salsa ti uses a bi-ovalized down tube like my Lynskey, this controls unwanted flex. Salsa will warrenty any bad frames, if that ever happens.
I've been thinking of updating my Soma with something titanium, this looks ideal.
Michael
I have a Lynskey Ti road bike and a Soma Double Cross DC (disc-brakes). This frame combines the best features of both. I find the steel-framed Soma has a little too much flex at the BB. This makes climbing less efficient. The Lynskey has just the right amount of flex and climbing is easier. The bike is faster and less tiring during a long hilly ride. I also like the paint-free titanium and I never worry about scratches or rust.
I would not worry about flex or bad welds. This Salsa ti uses a bi-ovalized down tube like my Lynskey, this controls unwanted flex. Salsa will warrenty any bad frames, if that ever happens.
I've been thinking of updating my Soma with something titanium, this looks ideal.
Michael
Last edited by Barrettscv; 11-07-10 at 09:28 AM.
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Hi Michael,
Good to hear you are happy with ti. It seems like most people online are either happy or vexed by their ti machines. Few people seem indifferent to it. When they work they seem perfect but when they crack or fail it appears to be for reasons unknown. One would think they'd be a known quantity by now since ti has been in widespread industrial use since the 1950's. The mtb crowd is headed towards ti once again, or at least the advertisements are.
Most of us tourer types are conservative with new technology by nature and having paid tuition at the school of hard knocks. The idea of carrying my bike on my back down a slippery hill on a volcano in Panama is not appealing AT ALL.
Good to hear you are happy with ti. It seems like most people online are either happy or vexed by their ti machines. Few people seem indifferent to it. When they work they seem perfect but when they crack or fail it appears to be for reasons unknown. One would think they'd be a known quantity by now since ti has been in widespread industrial use since the 1950's. The mtb crowd is headed towards ti once again, or at least the advertisements are.
Most of us tourer types are conservative with new technology by nature and having paid tuition at the school of hard knocks. The idea of carrying my bike on my back down a slippery hill on a volcano in Panama is not appealing AT ALL.
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The frame has many of the design features of a Lynskey and looks completely different from imported-from-Asia titanium frames. I have never heard any substantual complaints about a Lynskey.
Modern Ti frames using 3/2.5 seamless Titanium and biaxial ovalized downtube are free of unwanted flex. I'm 210 lbs and can put down some power and frame flex is not a problem.
I'm wondering if Lynskey builds this for Salsa? See: https://www.lynskeyperformance.com/a/...g/backroad.php & https://www.lynskeyperformance.com/a/.../cooper-cx.php
They have done private label frames for Planet X and Performance bikes. These are great frames.
Modern Ti frames using 3/2.5 seamless Titanium and biaxial ovalized downtube are free of unwanted flex. I'm 210 lbs and can put down some power and frame flex is not a problem.
I'm wondering if Lynskey builds this for Salsa? See: https://www.lynskeyperformance.com/a/...g/backroad.php & https://www.lynskeyperformance.com/a/.../cooper-cx.php
They have done private label frames for Planet X and Performance bikes. These are great frames.
Last edited by Barrettscv; 11-07-10 at 09:57 AM.
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I don't see an advantage, just different. The weight differences are rendered moot by the amount of gear you carry. If you aren't already a lean rider carrying little gear the couple pounds is a very small percentage of total weight. Resiliance and shock absorption can be addressed in other ways through tires, fork construction and geometry. Issues of corrosion and fatigue are mostly theoretical benefit than practical. Anything that's causing corrosion problems with your frame will have long before screwed up the running gear.
Ti makes sense if you can spend the money and you want it, then the reasons will appear.
Ti makes sense if you can spend the money and you want it, then the reasons will appear.
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Steel vs Ti vs Carbon vs Aluminum vs Scandium vs (new material goes here) is a matter of taste, for sure. Assuming dollars are not an issue, and that one is open to experimentation, why not? It's not like this would be my only rig...
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I don't see an advantage, just different. The weight differences are rendered moot by the amount of gear you carry. If you aren't already a lean rider carrying little gear the couple pounds is a very small percentage of total weight. Resiliance and shock absorption can be addressed in other ways through tires, fork construction and geometry. Issues of corrosion and fatigue are mostly theoretical benefit than practical. Anything that's causing corrosion problems with your frame will have long before screwed up the running gear.
Ti makes sense if you can spend the money and you want it, then the reasons will appear.
Ti makes sense if you can spend the money and you want it, then the reasons will appear.
My touring/commuter/cyclocross & century ride bike needs to do more than just loaded touring. It needs to keep up with my fast friends during a 7 hour 200k ride and needs to go off-(paved) roads and even cover some easier single track. A versitile bike needs to be light-but-strong when used without racks or touring gear. It also needs to take a wide range of tires for either on-road or off-road use.
If the bike is going to do more than touring, titanium is ideal.
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Hard to guess on tire clearance .. looks like a hybrid not quite a 29er, not enough clearance for big tires, what tires are on that, looks like 38~40 at the most..
Not a cross bike , sloping top tube is hard to carry,
not any triple crank so its not a single track ride, either ..
but for local riding and commuting it seems OK
some Studded 32's for the ice, , fenders, a rear rack and lights..
if QBP stands behind their sales and will fix any defects in materials and workmanship , then all is good.
Not a cross bike , sloping top tube is hard to carry,
not any triple crank so its not a single track ride, either ..
but for local riding and commuting it seems OK
some Studded 32's for the ice, , fenders, a rear rack and lights..
if QBP stands behind their sales and will fix any defects in materials and workmanship , then all is good.
Last edited by fietsbob; 11-07-10 at 04:00 PM.
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The frame is not sold as a complete bike. The owner could install a wide selection of drivetrains.
The Sram Apex road compact double an 11-32 ten speed cassette is featured for those who need to look at a complete bike.
A triple could easily be used also.
The Sram Apex road compact double an 11-32 ten speed cassette is featured for those who need to look at a complete bike.
A triple could easily be used also.
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What options are available in 2x10 these days? I'd want at least under 25 gear inches on the low side. I tried the Sheldon calc but it has not been updated for the latest 10 speed hardware. With 44/29 front and 11-34 9-speed I get a low of 23 and a high of 108 with 700x32 with 175 cranks, which is pretty good. In the mtb world, a lot of folks are going 2x10...
Is anyone riding any tires over 32 on their Vayas with fenders? Fenders are a game breaker for me. Size 32 tires are a ho-hum. Prefer wider. Check this thread at mtbr on tire widths. I'm sure Asana will chime in eventually...
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/gears/
https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=579824
https://velonews.competitor.com/2009/...he-works_92812
Is anyone riding any tires over 32 on their Vayas with fenders? Fenders are a game breaker for me. Size 32 tires are a ho-hum. Prefer wider. Check this thread at mtbr on tire widths. I'm sure Asana will chime in eventually...
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/gears/
https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=579824
https://velonews.competitor.com/2009/...he-works_92812
Last edited by safariofthemind; 11-07-10 at 12:09 PM.
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What options are available in 2x10 these days? I'd want at least under 25 gear inches on the low side. I tried the Sheldon calc but it has not been updated for the latest 10 speed hardware. With 44/29 front and 11-34 9-speed I get a low of 22 and a high of 104, which is pretty good. In the mtb world, a lot of folks are going 2x10...
Is anyone riding any tires over 32 on their Vayas with fenders? Fenders are a game breaker for me. Size 32 tires are a ho-hum. Prefer wider. Check this thread at mtbr on tire widths. I'm sure Asana will chime in eventually...
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/gears/
https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=579824
https://velonews.competitor.com/2009/...he-works_92812
Is anyone riding any tires over 32 on their Vayas with fenders? Fenders are a game breaker for me. Size 32 tires are a ho-hum. Prefer wider. Check this thread at mtbr on tire widths. I'm sure Asana will chime in eventually...
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/gears/
https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=579824
https://velonews.competitor.com/2009/...he-works_92812
I'm using a Sram Apex 11-32 ten speed cassette that works great with Ultegra. see: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...r-fear-no-hill
Last edited by Barrettscv; 11-07-10 at 03:40 PM.
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Sram is leading the way with 2x10 options. They offer the Sram Apex road bike groupset with a 11x32 ten speed cassette and a 50 & 34t road compact crankset and brifters. The $$$$ Sram XXX MTB group offers a 11x32 or 11x36 ten speed cassette and a 45 & 30t mtb crankset. Smaller XXX crankset chainwheel combinations are also offered.
I'm using a Sram Apex 11-32 ten speed cassette that works great with Ultegra. see: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...r-fear-no-hill
I'm using a Sram Apex 11-32 ten speed cassette that works great with Ultegra. see: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...r-fear-no-hill
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op was speaking in terms of off-road touring. I would think that what would make an off-road tourer ideal is the ability to take 2.125 or 50mm tires and some kind of steerer tube front shock like the Cannondales.
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That would be ideal Lee, but alas, seems there's a market hole for this stuff. My Cross Check has 50mm Schwalbes and it rides like a dream, but I can't seem to be find fenders for it in that configuration or in a similar off-road machine. Plus the idea of getting 700c/29er wheels with discs (my CC has rim brakes) is appealing after the CrossCheck experience. On the other hand, something like a Pugsley is just too darn heavy for my blood.
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Looking at off-road touring alternatives I came across this interesting frame.
https://salsacycles.com/bikes/vaya_ti/
Wondering what if any are the advantages of a titanium frame in off road tourers? Doing a search on google yielded:
On the pro side:
1. rust resistance which extends life of frame
2. seemingly indefinite resistance to flexing stresses
3. light weight
On the con side:
1. cracks at welds due to inexperienced welders
2. sometimes bikes flex too much because material is too thin to save $$ in tubing cost
3. hardware used has to be carefully managed to avoid seizing of parts
Any actual use reports would be greatly appreciated. I already have 3 older steel mtb frames (a 93 Jamis diablo and a 98 Raleigh mtb, soon an 89 Ritchey Ultra) kept more for collectable and fun purposes. This bike would be more for cross country short tours under 1 week. Mostly dirt roads and occasional use in the rainforest in Panama where I work. No extreme riding, bunny hopping or big drops planned for this bike.
The main attraction to get this bike would be getting disk brakes which are very useful in places like Panama where deep mud is everywhere. As a reference point, I already own a rim-braked Surly Cross Check and love it.
https://salsacycles.com/bikes/vaya_ti/
Wondering what if any are the advantages of a titanium frame in off road tourers? Doing a search on google yielded:
On the pro side:
1. rust resistance which extends life of frame
2. seemingly indefinite resistance to flexing stresses
3. light weight
On the con side:
1. cracks at welds due to inexperienced welders
2. sometimes bikes flex too much because material is too thin to save $$ in tubing cost
3. hardware used has to be carefully managed to avoid seizing of parts
Any actual use reports would be greatly appreciated. I already have 3 older steel mtb frames (a 93 Jamis diablo and a 98 Raleigh mtb, soon an 89 Ritchey Ultra) kept more for collectable and fun purposes. This bike would be more for cross country short tours under 1 week. Mostly dirt roads and occasional use in the rainforest in Panama where I work. No extreme riding, bunny hopping or big drops planned for this bike.
The main attraction to get this bike would be getting disk brakes which are very useful in places like Panama where deep mud is everywhere. As a reference point, I already own a rim-braked Surly Cross Check and love it.
That would be ideal Lee, but alas, seems there's a market hole for this stuff. My Cross Check has 50mm Schwalbes and it rides like a dream, but I can't seem to be find fenders for it in that configuration or in a similar off-road machine. Plus the idea of getting 700c/29er wheels with discs (my CC has rim brakes) is appealing after the CrossCheck experience. On the other hand, something like a Pugsley is just too darn heavy for my blood.
Last edited by Barrettscv; 11-07-10 at 03:03 PM.
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https://sram2x10.com/?cat=66
The SRAM rep also told me that all of the 2 x 10 groups are compatible with their road shifters.
BTW, I think I also read somewhere (on the Salsa website, or in the Salsa blog) that the new Salsa Ti frames are made by Lynskey.
I can't see any real downside to owning a Ti frame other than the cost. The "cons" of Ti (other than cost) are simply materials differences that can be compensated for by a good builder.
The pros, in my mind, are:
- not having to worry about corrosion
- if you have an unpainted finish, you don't have to worry about paint chips
The weight differences are so small it's not worth worrying about in a bike like this, but it's nice to shave a few ounces.
I'd love to own a Vaya Ti, BTW, looks like a great bike.
Last edited by BengeBoy; 11-07-10 at 03:38 PM.
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I own a Cross-Check and have ridden Ti bikes but never owned them. With money no object it would be cool to have a custom titanium frame but for off road touring I'd rather spend the money on the lightest gear and most secure method for attaching it(kevlar cordura?) when things go ballistic. Actually I'd probably spend the money on a personal trainer to lose 30lbs of fat.
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when clearance is scant, I cut the fender. it stops behind the fork , then the short piece is bolted to the front of the fork
I stick a cork in the bottom of the steerer tube then to keep the dirt from going up.
I stick a cork in the bottom of the steerer tube then to keep the dirt from going up.
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Thanks.
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That's very interesting. I see a lot of folks running hard tails with suspended forks in the bikepacking forums. I know you lose efficiency but gain comfort and it is a trade off but I wonder about the suitability for a really long trip. The journals at crazyguy for great divide rides for example seem dominated by rigid bikes. On the other hand, I just started a thread in the mtb forum about looking for an FS bike, so maybe the 2 needs can be combined into a single bike.
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ng-Rig-Choices
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ng-Rig-Choices
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The Vaya is like my alloy Schwinn Super Sport DBX. That established an entirely new category of bike called adventure bikes, which are disc brake equipped bikes that can take larger tires with fenders and have front and rear rack mounts. Unlike road bikes, they can be taken off road as well as on asphalt. This makes them useful all-around bikes as well being good at commuting and touring, for which they are superbly designed.
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NormanF, spoken like a true fan boy
Looks like Salsa folks are very happy with their rigs generally speaking...
Personally, I think all bikes are a compromise one way or the other, hence why owning more than one makes sense ("Yes your honor, that's my story and I am sticking to it"). That's my excuse for collecting but don't tell my wife.
In all seriousness, I wouldn't want to do an extended tour on roads without my more upright, road-component equipped bike so an off road rig can be more specialized, without having to make a lot of compromises for extended on-asphalt-road use.
Looks like Salsa folks are very happy with their rigs generally speaking...
Personally, I think all bikes are a compromise one way or the other, hence why owning more than one makes sense ("Yes your honor, that's my story and I am sticking to it"). That's my excuse for collecting but don't tell my wife.
In all seriousness, I wouldn't want to do an extended tour on roads without my more upright, road-component equipped bike so an off road rig can be more specialized, without having to make a lot of compromises for extended on-asphalt-road use.
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I have a steel frame Vaya that I built up in April. It has 40mm Conti Avenue Semislick tires and plenty of room for fenders. I built it for touring, and have installed Tubus racks front and rear. It has a Coda 94/58 crank with 20-42-42 rings and 12-32 8 spd. rear. So far, so good.