seenloitering

I'm helping to organize a camping tour for a university cycling club. Seven days; 20 riders. Most of them have done a fair bit of light touring, and a few have done some loaded touring.

I've been thinking about strategies for distributing supplies across riders instead of everyone carrying the same stuff, and wondered if anyone had any ideas or experience trying. For example, I was considering bringing a single larger element stove instead of everyone bringing small stoves, then getting another rider to carry a pot (maybe two stoves and two pots).

10 Wheels

Carry the heavy stuff in the sag van.

Speedo

+1

Get a vehicle, share the driving. Unless your twenty riders are really committed to doing it fully on their own.

Speedo

safariofthemind

For this many people a vehicle makes a lot of sense. Any small injuries, any emergencies, supply runs, major mechanical problems, etc. don't stop your overall schedule if you can run the vehicle to take care of things. Many people also enjoy a day or half a day off the bike if they are feeling the "bonk", especially until they find their touring legs. A van also let's you get and prepare fresher food more often, which is a huge plus to the quality of living.

Cyclesafe

Somebody in a group that size will have a physical, mechanical, or emotional problem and have to quit. If there's a sag wagon its a relief for everyone.

TheHen

I've never been in a group that large, but I have seen a few. I disagree on the necessity of a sag. With a group that big, you are bound to have a few "pack mules" who can carry refrigerators up mountains. If someone is having physical problems, their load can move to the mules and he/she can ride a naked bike, which can really help him/her recover. The ride is likely to feel like a much greater accomplishment if you can make it without motorized support. Also, when I have encountered groups that have a motor vehicle with them, the driver always feels cheated. However, it may be a good idea to have some sort of on-call motor vehicle (someone's significant other?) who can rescue a rider who can't go on for some reason. Luckily, with a bit of ingenuity and the right tools and parts, most mechanical problems can be remedied, but physical issues are another matter.

Good luck.

10 Wheels

True......

seenloitering

Motorized support isn't an option - unless someone here wants to finance it. We have the resources to call for assistance in an emergency (cab fare), and we have two bicycle mechanics in the group. The club has only gone on three tours, and noone has bailed yet. The big difference this time is the camping part. Usually we tour light (except for the mechanics who almost bring enough gear to build a bike from scratch).

xyzzy834

Strategies?

There's the Marxist strategy: From each according to his ability...

The Free Market strategy: Let them pay someone to haul extra stuff, trade loads amongst themselves, or earn money doing so...

The Dictatorial strategy: You tell everyone what to carry...

The Anarchist strategy: Everybody does whatever they want...

If I were on the trip, I'd prefer some combination of Free Market and Anarchist strategies. Do 20 people all want to eat the same thing every night? No matter how you divide everything up, someone will undoubtedly resent his (her) forced allotment.

I'd vote for everyone self-sufficiency or work it out amongst themselves for small efficiencies.

prathmann

I guess it depends somewhat on how much community gear you plan to have to divide among the riders. If you have lots of community items then it would be reasonable to let everyone know ahead of time that they'll be expected to leave room for and be able to carry say, 5 lbs., of community gear in addition to their personal luggage. Then try to split up the community stuff as evenly as possible among the participants - but there will obviously be differences in physical abilities, so variations should be dealt with in a reasonable fashion.

OTOH, if you only have a few community items then most participants won't need to carry any of them. In that case I'd try to identify those who would have the least trouble carrying some extra gear and see if they'll volunteer to each carry one of the community items. But make sure they know about it in advance since otherwise they might not have left any extra room in panniers/racks to accommodate an extra item.

In either case, some adjustments could be made as the trip progresses if you find a few riders lagging behind or a group that's always way off the front and having to wait

Cyclesafe

+1 If a sag wagon is out, then it must be every person for themselves. Not everyone is going to want to eat group food anyway and will resent having to help buy, lug, and cook food and then clean up dishes and pack out trash afterwards. Let people form their own spontaneous voluntary alliances to help each other - they will anyway. And maybe those alliances won't be formed in opposition to the overseer (you).

Chris Pringle

Among 20 riders, you should let them form their own alliances (e.g., 5 groups of 4 people suggested). That way, they can decide themselves how to share the logistics of camping supplies, tools; with whom they want to share tents, etc. Just give them guidelines and a check list of supplies each group should bring. Make sure to plan activities for each evening. For instance, the first night each group is to hang out together - they prepare their own meal so they become comfortable with others in their own groups. The second night is pot-luck night: after setting camp, give each group 45 mins. to cook and the food is shared among all the groups. Encourage them to practice their camping stove cooking skills. In fact, I would program a stove cookout at school one or two weeks before the actual tour so they learn how how to use their cooking equipment. If anyone plays an instrument well and doesn't mind carrying it, encourage him/her to bring it for events around the campfire. This really makes for a lot of fun while camping.

As the organizer, concentrate on the big picture (e.g. route, lunch & rest stops, grocery shopping stops, nightly activities, etc.) and just make sure everyone understands their options and procedures should anything major arise.

reed523

I just want to say it is OUTSTANDING that you've got 20 college students committed to this. You are obviously doing something right! Keep up the good work.

TheHen

+1

skilsaw

I would try and convince the whole group to divide into groups of 5. All 20 tour together, but the groups of 5 figure out their menu, cooking, etc routines. A group of 5 can make do with a good 1 burner stove.

The mechanics need to travel at the back of the pack so that they come across the breakdowns.

safariofthemind

With no sag vehicle, you need to insure everyone is self sufficient enough that if 2 or 3 people drop out due to illness, injury, breakdown or the bonk that the other riders don't get impacted. In other words, enough redundancy has to be built in. Kinda tricky. Guess the idea of dividing people in groups of 4 is good so long as the teams can be reconfigured as needed. You also need to think about what to do with the ones that don't make it all the way through. Maybe set up "checkpoints" along the route where people can be eased off the tour if need be. Everyone needs to have enough cash to get home if things go wrong. Everyone should also have health insurance. Oh, and make sure everyone signs releases - in the US liability is a dirty little thing that creeps up anytime you organize something.

The Impossipede

You know, I don't mean to be rude, but I question the assertion that this group can't afford a sag vehicle. With 20 people, someone certainly owns a car. Also with 20 people, if everyone throws in $10, that's more than enough for a week's worth of gas. Ten bucks is the cost of two beers, and most college students I know find away to afford a few beers.

Whatever it would take everyone to scrape together a ten-spot would more than pay off in terms of headaches bypassed. . .

staehpj1

I find that when a car is involved the whole flavor of the trip changes. Sag may be fine if it is what you want, but it would change the nature of the trip substantially. I don't think it is a given that a group of 20 should be sagged.

I will say that on our TA we found that arguments over distribution of community gear was the one big bone of contention on a mostly peaceful trip, so be careful with how you handle it. On a long trip maybe schedule in advance planned times when the community gear gets reevaluated and possibly redistributed.

valygrl

You could try asking Adventure Cycling how they handle this situation, they do group self-supported camping tours.

seenloitering

Thanks for all your advice. I'm going to run this all past the guys and gals in the club and see what their reactions are.

The Impossipede,

Trust me. None of us have cars. I don't even have a driver's license. I'll mention it anyway; it's surprising what people have access to sometimes. Maybe someone has a sibling who would just love to drive the whole trip.