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  1. #1
    Senior Member neilfein's Avatar
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    Toledo to Pittsburgh -- Anyone ridden here?

    (Reposted from the local forums.)

    I'm considering a week-long tour next month, and Toledo to P-burgh is on my shortlist. Any good routes this way? Is there camping? (I know there's an AC route along the shore, but I'd rather stay inland. I think.)

    I'm not certain I want to do this -- I've heard horror stories about Toledo -- but I'm sketching out a plan to see how long it would take, where the campsites are, etc.

    Day 0 - travel day(s), pick up bike in Toledo. Maybe stay a night in P'Burgh, then do the 5-hour train ride to Toledo and start riding that day.

    Have kept the first day's riding short so I can pick up my bike in Toledo and start riding the same day, if the trains will let me do it this way. (14 hour train ride straight from NYC, 5 hours from Pittsburgh. I think stopping in Pittsburgh overnight makes sense.)

    Day 1 - Toledo Amtrak Station to Wooded Acres Campgrounds in Lindsey, Ohio - 30 miles (Edit: with changes from mmeiser and basic jim.)

    Day 2 - Lindsey to Schaun Acres Campground in Oberlin, Ohio - 54 miles

    Day 3 - Oberlin to the University of Akron, 51 miles (still need to ID a place to stay for the night)

    Day 3 - Oberlin to Akron, stay in Hiker/Biker campsite overnight (I think this is the second of the two sites that mmeiser mentioned; I called Metro Parks and this is the one they confirmed to me. Will keep an eye peeled for the one before it, though.)

    Days 4-5 - Akron to Pittsburgh, will use trails for the last day as much as possible. Edit: This may split into three days, depending on where I find campsites.

    Anything on these roads that sucks for riding? Or will it be miles of dull roads with very little of interest? Should I stay along the shore? I've pretty much decided to stay away from Cleveland.
    Last edited by neilfein; 06-07-11 at 02:41 PM. Reason: More updates to day 1
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilfein View Post
    ...Anything on these roads that sucks for riding? Or will it be miles of dull roads with very little of interest? Should I stay along the shore?
    I'm not familiar with the area but since you've used Google Maps to plan your route, you can use the "Street View" feature to get an idea what the roads and the surrounding area look like. Drag the little "orange man" in the upper left of the screen to some places along your route and you can have a look around, almost as if you've been teleported there. Looks pretty rural and flat for the most part (if you like flat).

  3. #3
    Senior Member neilfein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pexio View Post
    I'm not familiar with the area but since you've used Google Maps to plan your route, you can use the "Street View" feature to get an idea what the roads and the surrounding area look like. Drag the little "orange man" in the upper left of the screen to some places along your route and you can have a look around, almost as if you've been teleported there. Looks pretty rural and flat for the most part (if you like flat).
    Thanks, that's how I've been planning my tours, but it's never the same as someone who's ridden there.

    And, at least so far, street view doesn't tell me much about trail conditions. I planned to use several trails when I rode from Boston to NYC, and all but one were washed out, and one was torn up by ATVs. (I actually ran into one of the people who's been evangelizing to get the latter one restored, randomly while riding towards the trailhead.)

    But it's certainly a great tool!
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  4. #4
    Neil_B
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    neilfein, my aborted 2011 cross country tour put me on your day 2 route, but in the opposite direction.

    How does the route continue to Pittsburgh? I was planning on Pittsburgh to Beaver Creek State Park, OH, to Stow (staying with another Bike Forums poster) and then on to your day 2 endpoint.

  5. #5
    Junior Member velotrain's Avatar
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    I did Cleveland - Akron - Youngstown - Pittsburgh - DC as a "Steel Wheels" tour maybe a decade ago, using Amtrak from/to Boston at both ends. I spent three days each in Cleveland and Pittsburgh as these were new to me and I like exploring cities on a bike, but am also interested in industrial landscape/architecture - faded or otherwise. I don't camp and am used to urban riding from commuting, and don't recall any horrible places, but may have just coped with it at the time and then suppressed it. Another tour I did not too far away was Buffalo - Philly (could also be Baltimore), again using Amtrak connections, which is getting harder to do each year. Some nice riding along the West Branch of the Susquehanna River, with a gorgeous day between Emporium and Lock Haven.

  6. #6
    Senior Member neilfein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil_B View Post
    neilfein, my aborted 2011 cross country tour put me on your day 2 route, but in the opposite direction.
    When you did your research, what did you find out about the riding there? Any nasty roads I should stay away from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neil_B View Post
    How does the route continue to Pittsburgh? I was planning on Pittsburgh to Beaver Creek State Park, OH, to Stow (staying with another Bike Forums poster) and then on to your day 2 endpoint.
    Dunno yet, I haven't made it. I'd like to get some more info on the general area before making the route, but I'd like to go through Akron and the university there. (They're always good places to cycle. Problem is, no campgrounds there I can find, and making the campus puts me at almost exactly 50 miles out from the previous night.)

    Would like to approach Pittsburgh using the Panhandle Trail and possibly bits of the Montour Trail, assuming they're rideable. (After my recent almost-rant about people wimping out from a little mud on the C&O I may now have no right to say that.)
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  7. #7
    Neil_B
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilfein View Post
    When you did your research, what did you find out about the riding there? Any nasty roads I should stay away from?



    Dunno yet, I haven't made it. I'd like to get some more info on the general area before making the route, but I'd like to go through Akron and the university there. (They're always good places to cycle. Problem is, no campgrounds there I can find, and making the campus puts me at almost exactly 50 miles out from the previous night.)

    Would like to approach Pittsburgh using the Panhandle Trail and possibly bits of the Montour Trail, assuming they're rideable. (After my recent almost-rant about people wimping out from a little mud on the C&O I may now have no right to say that.)
    I didn't find any roads especially bad.

    The Montour is crushed gravel. The Panhandle, I understand, can be rough in places.

  8. #8
    Senior Member neilfein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by velotrain View Post
    I did Cleveland - Akron - Youngstown - Pittsburgh - DC as a "Steel Wheels" tour maybe a decade ago, using Amtrak from/to Boston at both ends. I spent three days each in Cleveland and Pittsburgh as these were new to me and I like exploring cities on a bike, but am also interested in industrial landscape/architecture - faded or otherwise. I don't camp and am used to urban riding from commuting, and don't recall any horrible places, but may have just coped with it at the time and then suppressed it. Another tour I did not too far away was Buffalo - Philly (could also be Baltimore), again using Amtrak connections, which is getting harder to do each year. Some nice riding along the West Branch of the Susquehanna River, with a gorgeous day between Emporium and Lock Haven.
    Did you go through Akron itself? I'm trying to find lodging there. (You'd think there would be a hostel in a college town, but I haven't found it yet.)

    Neil B., how did you hear about that dorm we stayed in when we did Pittsburgh-DC? Something like that would work for me if it exists in Akron.
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  9. #9
    Every day a winding road spinnaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil_B View Post
    I didn't find any roads especially bad.

    The Montour is crushed gravel. The Panhandle, I understand, can be rough in places.
    The Panhandle in Ohio is HORRIBLE . Large chunks of rock ruts etc. I turned back after a mile or two. It is scheduled to be repaved this year from what I hear.

    Route 30 and Route 51 are both good options for coming into Pittsburgh. Route 51 much more traffic and faster than 30 but route 51 is two lanes divided with wide shoulders and nice and flat. Route 30 is the far prettier of the two but is hilly in spots.. Route 51 will have many more towns but Route 30 has Raccoon Creek State Park and camping (assuming it is not now closed).
    "The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it."

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  10. #10
    Senior Member neilfein's Avatar
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    @Spinnaker - Good to know about the Panhandle, will avoid it. Is it just as bad in PA?

    Thanks for the info about 30 and 51! Have bookmarked this thread.
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  11. #11
    Neil_B
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilfein View Post
    Did you go through Akron itself? I'm trying to find lodging there. (You'd think there would be a hostel in a college town, but I haven't found it yet.)

    Neil B., how did you hear about that dorm we stayed in when we did Pittsburgh-DC? Something like that would work for me if it exists in Akron.
    Frostburg University was listed on the GAP's website.

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  13. #13
    Every day a winding road spinnaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilfein View Post
    @Spinnaker - Good to know about the Panhandle, will avoid it. Is it just as bad in PA?

    Thanks for the info about 30 and 51! Have bookmarked this thread.
    As I mentioned the bad area is Ohio. PA is fine.
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    Just reading through this now. Will review the routes you posted here and give you more specific information on them in another post, but for now some general feedack on the Panhandle. I did it this last January. It had been town up pretty bad by heavy ATV use. I don't remember having any issues with finding a clean line, I just recall thinking it was a damn shame some a-holes with ATV's had torn it up. It was completely unpaved at the time. It wasn't even crushed limestone. I had no problems with it whatsoever, but then I was riding my Salsa Fargo with 29x2.1" tires.

    I didn't get the impression it was yet very well funded. It's only 8-10 miles but if you're worried about it my suggestion would be to get on the montour trail yahoo group / mailing list and ask people about current trail conditions. There may even be a panhandle trail mailing list. Again, ask on the montour trail mailing list. Great people. Great resourse. While you're at it ask about the location of the new hiker-biker sites. I stayed at one. Was a little to close to the road, but otherwise very nice. The thing I remember most about the montour section was the people. Here it was January and two people offered me water, and one even came back and offered me a piece of pie. I think it's because it's a newer trail and people aren't used to seeing tourers. They all wanted to know where I was headed and where I was coming from. Indeed I started a campfire (wood provided) and ended up sitting there having a cigar with one guy.

    Will respond in another post with detailed feedback on your route.


    Oh! BTW, be sure to stop in Elmore Cycle and Fitness in Elmore, OH and say hello! It's right on the bike path on your way to the campground in Lindsey. Just ask for Mike. I'm there on most days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neilfein View Post
    I'm considering a week-long tour next month, and Toledo to P-burgh is on my shortlist. Any good routes this way? Is there camping? (I know there's an AC route along the shore, but I'd rather stay inland. I think.)
    I think inland is far more interesting. Interesting being a very relative thing. But it is far quicker as well and less likely to have to deal with extreme headwinds.

    Quote Originally Posted by neilfein View Post
    I'm not certain I want to do this -- I've heard horror stories about Toledo -- but I'm sketching out a plan to see how long it would take, where the campsites are, etc.
    Horror stories? Do tell. I will try and correlate. You don't have to worry about offending me either. I don't live in Toledo and am not all that fond of it either.

    Quote Originally Posted by neilfein View Post
    Day 0 - travel day(s), pick up bike in Toledo. Maybe stay a night in P'Burgh?

    Have kept the first day's riding short so I can pick up my bike in Toledo and start riding the same day, if the trains will let me do it this way. (14 hour train ride straight from NYC, 5 hours from Pittsburgh. I think stopping in Pittsburgh overnight makes sense.)
    I think your plan to use amtrak is a good one. I've used it twice now to return from trips along the Allegheny Passage.

    I ride route 51 coming out of toledo all the time. It is admittedly congested though, and high stress. Probably not a bad idea to avoid it. Your workaround going due south is probably the best way to avoid a lot of traffic. I have not ridden Tracy or Walbridge, but I have ridden Broadway that parrallels Tracy. Keep in mind that is a big rail yard you're riding right through but the roads should be pretty well paved and traffic should be light.

    Route 51: South of Milbury 51 isn't to bad. Very little congestion. It's very well paved and has a consistent 3 foot shoulder. Gets a bit of traffic and traffic moves a bit fast, but I ride it all the time. A hare boring, but maybe that's just because I ride it all the time.

    Elmore, Ohio: Just be aware that that the initial block of the bike path between Witty Road and 105 is not paved. It's basically dirt double track. That said, it is very popular and people ride it all the time. Indeed I like it. The old rail bridge / now bike bridge over the Portage into Elmore is pretty cool.

    The Bike Path: The bike path between Elmore Ohio and Clyde is very well paved. Indeed they just repaved most of it in the last two years, and the Fremont to Clyde section again a few weeks ago. It's mostly tree lined, which is great because it breaks the wind a little, but there are a few windswept sections. The right away under freeway is there. Google is just silly/mistaken/flat out wrong in routing you around the 80/90 intersection. I had to laugh at some tourers that stopped in the bike shop the other day that followed the mile detour google gave them instead of riding straight through. It is extremely obvious that the thruway is open.

    Camping: Not that I have anything against your campground choice. I ride by it all the time and it looks like a nice enough place. Have been meaning to try camping there sometime myself. It's very convenient. That said have you thought about checking out Maumee Bay State Park?

    It's almost certainly NOT going to be as quiet as your campground choice unless you're there mid week. So if you want quiet stick with your original plan. But it does have superb facilities, plus there is a beautiful lodge if you'd rather stay there. What's more if you have the time you could check out the wildlife refuge and ride out to the point. Nothing specifically cool about this area. Just some birds, marshes, a lot of trees, a marina near the lodge, and a whole lot of water. But I like it.

    Here's an alternative route with some hilights: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sour...&z=13&lci=bike I really enjoy these roads. That said, you could just cruise on through. Just depends on how much of a hurry you're in.

    This is pretty much exactly the route i would suggest.

    Depending on when you do your trip the bike path in this section may be complete all the way from Clyde to Norwalk. I know they are planning to pave the missing link this summer. There is much anticipation.

    If it's not completed by the time you tour you should know though that Route 20 can be high truck traffic. It is a four lane roadway with a median. I *think* they have repaved and put new / wider shoulders on Route 20 between Clyde and Williams road, but I'm not sure. Can't remember the last time I drove through.

    If you find they have not here is a proposed alternative route that doesn't take you but another mile out of your way: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sour...&z=10&lci=bike

    Quote Originally Posted by neilfein View Post
    Day 3 - Oberlin to the University of Akron, 51 miles (still need to ID a place to stay for the night)
    Nough' said. You cannot go wrong in this area. If you get sick of the trail, ridge the paved scenic byway. They're both beautiful and equally popular with bicyclists. The only thing I might suggest is that there are now THREE hiker-biker campsites on the trail. All are brand new. One is just north of Akron (nice but no water / bathroom), one is practically in Akron (and not recommended), and a third is well down toward New Philadelphia (highly recommended). Call the Cuyahoga park service for details. If they're clueless (and they might be on issues of the bike trail) then try calling the local bike shop. Sorry I didn't grab their GPS coordinates the last time I rolled through.

    You will also want to check out a few sites if you have time. Brandywine falls is one cool spot. Peninsula has some great places to eat like the Winking Lizard. There's also a historic farm that's worth checking out if only because it's on a popular bicycle route. (I forget the name or road.) Again, contact the Cuyahoga parks people or read up on their website.

    Quote Originally Posted by neilfein View Post
    Days 4-5 - Akron to Pittsburgh, will use trails for the last day as much as possible.

    Anything on these roads that sucks for riding? Or will it be miles of dull roads with very little of interest? Should I stay along the shore? I've pretty much decided to stay away from Cleveland.
    I have ridden the shoreline into cleveland and then ridden from downtown down to the start of the Cuyahoga bicycle trail. I enjoyed them both. That said, it's pretty hearty riding. The roads and traffic weren't to bad, but I had to cross a closed bridge and ride through a rail yard and industrial area. It's pretty much what you'd expect. I just thought it was cool to ride down through the cuyahoga river "flats". I could trace the route for you if you like.

    Overall I must say this section of the state is very flat, and a little windswept until you get over to the Cuyahoga area. That said the backroads are all very well paved. I'm fond of plotting routes and then putting away the map and following my nose. Lots of beautiful backroads and interesting discoveries.

    Good luck with your trip! -Mike

  16. #16
    Senior Member neilfein's Avatar
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    @mmeiser -

    That's a lot of information! Thanks, will be modifying my route a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by mmeiser View Post
    Horror stories? Do tell. I will try and correlate. You don't have to worry about offending me either. I don't live in Toledo and am not all that fond of it either.
    I have no idea of the truth of any of this, but I've basically heard that crime is high and that the drivers are unfriendly to cyclists. I'm skeptical, in part because I'd head much the same thing about Pittsburgh fifteen years ago, and we all know the turnaround that "Steel City" managed!

    The cycling aspect of it may be real, however; Toledo doesn't even have a bike map that I can find, and the Google Maps view of the city shows a low concentration of bikeable streets. But that could be obsolete data.

    However, even if some of this is true, it's not necessarily a tour-killer. Here in New Jersey, I've quite enjoyed riding through Trenton, Paterson, and Newark. All three cities have interesting histories, and I find the people who live there to be, for the most part, quite friendly.

    The best tours I've been on so far have been between major cities: Pittsbugh to DC, Boston to New York, DC to Philadelphia. It makes sense to keep that going. (If I had an extra week, I'd start this one in Chicago.)
    Last edited by neilfein; 06-05-11 at 06:28 PM.
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  17. #17
    Senior Member neilfein's Avatar
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    Day 1:

    Quote Originally Posted by mmeiser View Post
    Camping: Not that I have anything against your campground choice. I ride by it all the time and it looks like a nice enough place. Have been meaning to try camping there sometime myself. It's very convenient. That said have you thought about checking out Maumee Bay State Park?
    Maumee State Park sounds very nice, but going by the Oregon, OH address on their website, is somewhat further north. Would rather stay on-route where I can towards Akron.

    Quote Originally Posted by mmeiser View Post
    Elmore, Ohio: Just be aware that that the initial block of the bike path between Witty Road and 105 is not paved.
    Thanks; I just took a look at the trailheads in Street View, and it looks okay--No worse than some areas of the C&O when I rode it.

    Good to know I can get under the highway; will make a note on my cue sheet.

    I've experienced this kind of thing before, before, where Google Maps or Bikely or a GPS thinks I can't bike somewhere.

    Puts me on mind of when my GPS tried to send me 100+ miles out of my way to cross the river to get into Hartford. (I asked a backpack-commuter I met at a traffic light about it, and he said "Pfft. Follow me.") Electronic navigation is a good tool, but the map is not the territory.

    Day 2:

    Quote Originally Posted by mmeiser View Post
    I *think* they have repaved and put new / wider shoulders on Route 20 between Clyde and Williams road...

    If you find they have not here is a proposed alternative route that doesn't take you but another mile out of your way:
    Thanks; have bookmarked it and will bring it along.

    Day 3:

    Thanks, have emailed the park service. (Worst case, I check into a hotel for the night if the campsites look terrible, but I'd rather avoid the expense if possible.)
    Last edited by neilfein; 06-05-11 at 07:18 PM.
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    Senior Member Rob_E's Avatar
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    I biked through Akron/Canton area once and stayed at Portage Lakes State Park, I believe. I don't remember any issues with the campground, although it was 20 years ago, so lots may have changed both with the campground and my memory. I do remember that the Greatful Dead were playing nearby, and the park was full of Deadheads, but they may have moved on by now. The park looks to be around 10 miles from the university.

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    Senior Member BasicJim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmeiser View Post
    I ride route 51 coming out of toledo all the time. It is admittedly congested though, and high stress. Probably not a bad idea to avoid it. Your workaround going due south is probably the best way to avoid a lot of traffic. I have not ridden Tracy or Walbridge, but I have ridden Broadway that parrallels Tracy. Keep in mind that is a big rail yard you're riding right through but the roads should be pretty well paved and traffic should be light.
    I work at the big rail yard. Avoid Tracy as it is more narrow and is the back entrance to the local community college. Plenty of kids driving and texting on that narrow road. E. Broadway is the way to go.


    Quote Originally Posted by mmeiser View Post

    The Bike Path: The bike path between Elmore Ohio and Clyde is very well paved. Indeed they just repaved most of it in the last two years, and the Fremont to Clyde section again a few weeks ago. It's mostly tree lined, which is great because it breaks the wind a little, but there are a few windswept sections. The right away under freeway is there. Google is just silly/mistaken/flat out wrong in routing you around the 80/90 intersection. I had to laugh at some tourers that stopped in the bike shop the other day that followed the mile detour google gave them instead of riding straight through. It is extremely obvious that the thruway is open.
    +1 Great bike path. A joy to ride on!

    Quote Originally Posted by mmeiser View Post
    Camping: Not that I have anything against your campground choice. I ride by it all the time and it looks like a nice enough place.
    I have camped there. If your looking for quiet and sleep, this isn't the camp ground for you. Most the people that camp there are trailer campers. They stay up pretty late. Great for horse-shoes and a couple cold ones, though!

    I would recommend White Star for camping. I live near there and it is the campground of choice for most of the cross-country cyclists I meet. You can find info at http://www.whitestarquarry.com/About.htm.


    That's my $.02. Besides that, I'd listen to Mike! He's been there and done that. And thanks for replacing my spoke and truing my wheel last week, Mike!!

    Jim
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    neilfein, not sure if this will help you at all but I've done these routes to the suburbs of Cleveland from Pittsburgh and will be making a 200mi 1 day ride out of it later this summer, likely heading a bit further west and looping in. If you end up connecting with my routes, please let me know how they were so I can plan this ride since I haven't ridden west of these roads. I have a lot of fun on 51 to OH14, 165, 46 and 534. I'm fairly sure it's more downhill coming back so I hope to do a round trip ride as well. 51 is sketchy in some parts and I try hold over 25 for a lot of the parts without a shoulder (a few miles I recall). Going around some corners it feels like a car can't see you until after the corner so I think this is important to keep a good pace.
    Route 1:http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/7763110

    Route2: http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/19271866
    (I pointed out some trails in this one)

    I would say that along some of these trails, you might feel comfortable camping but they might be a bit north of where you plan to ride. I'm guessing the rest of those trails will be similar.

    Good luck

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    Senior Member neilfein's Avatar
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    @Jim -

    Thanks, have incorporated E. Broadway into my route.

    Quote Originally Posted by BasicJim View Post
    I would recommend White Star for camping. I live near there and it is the campground of choice for most of the cross-country cyclists I meet. You can find info at http://www.whitestarquarry.com/About.htm.
    I'm leaning towards Wooded Acres Campgrounds in Oberlin, simply because they're on the North Coast Inland Trail. Is it worth my while to travel to the White Star? (I'll bring info for both, I think.)

    @cra0513 - I agree, a lot of these are further north than I'll be going, but I'll report back with road conditions if anything is particularly remarkable.

    Keep in mind, still haven't decided that I'm doing this--although I'm getting more convinced this'll be a fun ride. From what I can see, I should be able to cover some good distances in Ohio with this route and still stop and see stuff; I've heard the state is fairly flat until you get close to PA.

    I only wish I had enough time to start in Chicago, but that'd be an extra week--easily.
    Last edited by neilfein; 06-06-11 at 09:45 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BasicJim View Post
    ...it is the campground of choice for most of the cross-country cyclists I meet.
    Anymore background info on this? Is it along some known route or something? Just always curious about the routes cross country tourers use through the area.

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    Senior Member BasicJim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilfein View Post

    I'm leaning towards Wooded Acres Campgrounds in Oberlin, simply because they're on the North Coast Inland Trail. Is it worth my while to travel to the White Star? (I'll bring info for both, I think.)
    Maybe we have lines crossed here. The Wooded Acres Campground I was referring to is in Lindsey, OH. I am not aware of one in Oberlin. I was suggesting White Star as an alternative to Wooded Acres in Lindsey, OH if you wanted a quieter place to camp. Wooded Acres is a nice place and is a lot of fun. White Star is about 8 miles from Wooded Acres.

    Is it worth the extra mileage? If your coming through on a week night, probably not. It should be pretty quiet. On a week end, your call, but I am a light sleeper and I like to go to bed earlier than the weekend crowd at Wooded Acres.

    HTH,

    Jim
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    Senior Member BasicJim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmeiser View Post
    Anymore background info on this? Is it along some known route or something? Just always curious about the routes cross country tourers use through the area.
    I don't know where the route is published. I have met 6 riders last year on this route. The summer before I met 9 (but one was a group of 4 riders). I asked one of the riders where they got this route and they said it was on a website... and if I remember, they had to pay for route info. I don't know if that helps.... I didn't have a pen to write down the name of the site.

    Here is the route that they are usually taking.... as you can see, I have no idea where they are coming from to the west.

    I did meet one couple that were just following US 20. Sounds scary to me! US 20 is a coast-to-cost road, Newport, Ore to Boston, Mass.

    HTH,

    Jim
    Last edited by BasicJim; 06-10-11 at 06:59 AM.
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    @basicJim: tried to check out the link you posted to on mapmyride.com, it said the route was only available to your friends, sent you a friend request but otherwise can't view it until you mark me as a friend or turn off the setting that only allows your friends to see your routes (stupid mapmyride.com)

    Regarding route 20 following: wow, didn't realize it was coast to coast, and double wow, the thought of following it all the way is horrifying, I can't imagine what "inspired" them to follow it. And by that I mean what combination of lack of time, inspiration and creativity led to such an idea. I could be wrong though.

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